Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

Turkey's intervention prevented Enosis with Greece, it did bring about Enosis of the north with Turkey. I wonder which is worse!

And one detail that is conveniently forgotten, the Greek Cypriots resisted the attempt to unite them with Greece, the Turkish Cypriots acquiesced to their Enosis with Turkey and their gradual extinction. At least they betrayed themselves more than anyone else.

Tora katalaves Deniz?

[denizaksulu]

Very interesting.

Am now awaiting a Cypriot comment.

Hello Koumera Feisty.

Will little me do?

If for no other reason than to get this moved to the Turkish Problem Section -

quote
..." Makarios flees and five days later Turkish troops land in the north to protect Turkish Cypriot community

- How did they do this ? What did this Piss Operation really accomplish? The murder of 6,000 Cypriots and making 200,000 others refugees.

I feel better now.

Any other Cypriots ?

I am a CYPRIOT - A Tyrkish speaking Cypriot. Yes, Turkeys intervention prevented Enosis. What else do you want to know?

No coup = no intervention. Gadalavis re!!?

remind me what percentage of Turks voted yes to enosis?

no not cypriots ur all just turks in the north and us in the south we are cypriots... no greek

If you have the gall to ask a TC why or how many voted for Enosis, a response would be foolhardy. I would ask you to use common sense, but that would involve a lengthy slanging match.

[Piratis]

What Bubbles posted is nothing more than British/Turkish propaganda (the foreigners who maintain armies on our island and occupy parts of it). So no surprise that there is no mention on the massacres and oppression by the Turks and the British against us, and they are instead trying to blame the Cypriots.

So lets get one thing straight: Cyprus would have no such problems today if it was not invaded by those foreigners who today are trying to give us history lessons, and all its problems would be solved if finally those foreigners would piss of and let us rule our own island in a democratic way, as every other EU democracy. This is a very simple and 100% accurate fact.

Some more points:

1) Cyprus History starts 1000s of years ago, not in 1960.

2) What was given to Cyprus in 1960 was not a true independence. When you are truly independent the people decide in a democratic way for the destiny of their own territory, they are not blackmailed and forced to sign what suits some foreigners and their pawns on our island.

3) What Makarios proposed in 1963 would simply make Cyprus more democratic. If the Turks want disproportionate power sharing agreements with minorities they should give an example by having such power sharing with the Kurds and the Greeks of Turkey.

4) In 1974 no TC was harmed until the invasion had started. The Turks invaded with the sole purpose of occupying the north part of our island as it was their plan since the 1950s.

5) There are no borders in Cyprus, just a cease fire line between the free parts of Cyprus and the lands that are illegally occupied by the Turkish army.

[Piratis]

allow me to finish off...

* a referendum for unification is held again and is again rejected

* Turkey finally gives up on its hopes of joining the EU due to public pressure from its citizens stemming from french/german policies aimed at stopping Turkey's bid

* Another referendum is held in the TRNC, this time to determine whether the TRNC is to become a part of the republic of Turkey.

* at this point either the TRNC will become an island of the republic of Turkey or.

* After voting to remain and independant country the TRNC along with the help of Turkey begins to gain international recognition, firstly through OIC
nations and then the US and UK. After several years many other nation also recognise the TRNC except for ROC, Greece, Russia and a handful of other nations.

And we will vote for China to became a "Cypriot Republic" I hope you understand how stupid is the things you say BigAl. How can you vote to decide the destiny of somehting that does not belong to you in the first place?

[SSBubbles]

[quote="Piratis"]What Bubbles posted is nothing more than British/Turkish propaganda ).


I found this link at the bottom of this forum and it was attributed to 'Aljazeera.net Qatar'!

I posted it (in the General Chat section) as I thought it would be educational to those of us who do not know too much about the Cyprob but who - like me - are willing to learn.

People insist on putting their 'spin' on it

[denizaksulu]

What Bubbles posted is nothing more than British/Turkish propaganda (the foreigners who maintain armies on our island and occupy parts of it). So no surprise that there is no mention on the massacres and oppression by the Turks and the British against us, and they are instead trying to blame the Cypriots.

So lets get one thing straight: Cyprus would have no such problems today if it was not invaded by those foreigners who today are trying to give us history lessons, and all its problems would be solved if finally those foreigners would piss of and let us rule our own island in a democratic way, as every other EU democracy. This is a very simple and 100% accurate fact.

Some more points:

1) Cyprus History starts 1000s of years ago, not in 1960.

2) What was given to Cyprus in 1960 was not a true independence. When you are truly independent the people decide in a democratic way for the destiny of their own territory, they are not blackmailed and forced to sign what suits some foreigners and their pawns on our island.

3) What Makarios proposed in 1963 would simply make Cyprus more democratic. If the Turks want disproportionate power sharing agreements with minorities they should give an example by having such power sharing with the Kurds and the Greeks of Turkey.

4) In 1974 no TC was harmed until the invasion had started. The Turks invaded with the sole purpose of occupying the north part of our island as it was their plan since the 1950s.

5) There are no borders in Cyprus, just a cease fire line between the free parts of Cyprus and the lands that are illegally occupied by the Turkish army.

I am glad you dont blame Adam and Eve.

no 1974 coup = no Turkish intervention.
The GCs would never be allowed the whole of the island while TCs are there. Whats your argument. This is one case where 'democracy' has failed as a solution. True democracy will ony work where there are peoples of a common goal, ethnicity, language and culture. Where it does seem to exist, is just a powder keg waiting to blow up. For re-unfication all these need to be sorted.

[Bananiot]

Piratis, you are totally beyond the point where anyone could help you, unless of course you are joking. Here you are arguing (ad nauseum) that our problems are the result of being invaded by imperialist forces throughout our long history but you cannot understand that this has not been a "privilege" of Cyprus alone. Denmark, just to choose a most stable country, was invaded many times by the now peaceful Swedes and your favourite England was invaded a number of times till about 1020.

Now, I wonder whether you have it in you, to understand the geopolitics of invasions in the modern era. The US of A invaded Granada, I seem to remember and the USSR invaded Afghanistan and previously a number of friendly countries, such as Hungary and Czechoslovakia. Even lowly Greece in 1919, invaded Turkey and just prior to that managed what no other country in the world had achieved before. Through being on the winning side in the 1st world war and the Balkan wars that preceded it, Greece more or less quadrupled its area.

Wars and invasions have been the landmark of human behaviour and being just human we seem to support, justify or at least stand neutral to those actions that seemingly benefit us and our microcosm.

Had we been living in the 19th century or before we would probably be immune to invasion because that was the order of the day in those times. After the set up of the United Nations and other Institutions that endorsed laws which basically look after the interests of the weak, an invasion and occupation by a foreign power can not possibly be tolerated or accepted by generations that have been indoctrinated by the ideas of enlightenment.

In Cyprus, things have never been clear cut and it must be said that each case is different. In this island, the Greek majority lived quite contented alongside the Turkish minority for as long as the Brits were here. I hate to think of what would have happened had the Brits not been here in 1922, but this can be debated another time. Our problems started when we decided, seemingly quite rightly, to become our own masters and fulfil our “perpetual” aim, which was union with Greece. In 1950, Makarios, against all the odds of logic, decided to force Greece into taking the Cyprus issue to the United Nations and make it an international issue. From 1950 till 1954 he visited Athens on a number of occasions stirring and agitating the people who listened to him rather than their wise Prime Minister(s) who knew better. Everyone loves a demagogue, at least in the beginning, before darkness falls. Before 1950, at around 1947 we kicked away our best chance when we declined the Constitutional Assembly (Diaskeptiki) offered to us by the dreaded Brits. Our history of resounding “no” goes back to 1947, unfortunately. Since then we said “no” about 14 times (someone has actually counted them).

Having placed our fate into the hands a few romantic kids who thought they could make the dream a reality in 1950 we embarked on a disastrous armed struggled against the Brits with a dogmatic Priest and a sick General as the leaders of the struggle. Thus we chose these tactics in order to achieve our age long aims without realising that in politics the losers pay forever for all. From that point, the fate of Cyprus was sealed.

Piratis and the rest of us can cry all day of the misfortunes that hit us and keep blaming the “others”. We are, at least, as much to blame. We exhibited an enormous amount of naivety since 1950 but one must be prepared to excuse this since in those days enlightened people were few and between and mostly stayed silent because their neck was permanently on the line. Remember, EOKA killed three times as many Greeks than Brits.

In 2008 however, there can be no excuses. There are rules and conditions to this game we have been playing and simply if we do not know the rules this will just not do. Christofias is doing a very good job so far. You do not need to be a deep thinker to understand this. Simply look at the list of the people that are “worried” because of the policies pursued by Christofias. On top of the list you will find Papadopoulos and his associates, Omirou, Koulias, the Archbishop and some others.

I think Talat is very positive too. He has demonstrated this on a number of occasions. However, we need to hurry. The situation in Turkey and the north will not be ideal for solution for ever. Our window of opportunity will probably close by the end of 2009. After that partition will be unavoidable but of course this does not seem to scare some people because they put their financial interests above the good of the country. In a nutshell, some Paphians, Limassolians, Ayianapans, will never agree with solution, even if we get the best of terms. These will cover their greed with a coat of nationalist jargon of the kind we witnessed in 2004.

[halil]

GOOD NEWS

at least GC side too decided to change their history books .... it was announced today .......

no more hate ............. at the end they followed TC's step for not brain washing their kids .

[denizaksulu]

[quote="Bananiot"]Piratis, you are totally beyond the point where anyone could help you, unless of course you are joking. Here you are arguing (ad nauseum) that our problems are the result of being invaded by imperialist forces throughout our long history but you cannot understand that this has not been a "privilege" of Cyprus alone. Denmark, just to choose a most stable country, was invaded many times by the now peaceful Swedes and your favourite England was invaded a number of times till about 1020.

Now, I wonder whether you have it in you, to understand the geopolitics of invasions in the modern era. The US of A invaded Granada, I seem to remember and the USSR invaded Afghanistan and previously a number of friendly countries, such as Hungary and Czechoslovakia. Even lowly Greece in 1919, invaded Turkey and just prior to that managed what no other country in the world had achieved before. Through being on the winning side in the 1st world war and the Balkan wars that preceded it, Greece more or less quadrupled its area.

Wars and invasions have been the landmark of human behaviour and being just human we seem to support, justify or at least stand neutral to those actions that seemingly benefit us and our microcosm.

Had we been living in the 19th century or before we would probably be immune to invasion because that was the order of the day in those times. After the set up of the United Nations and other Institutions that endorsed laws which basically look after the interests of the weak, an invasion and occupation by a foreign power can not possibly be tolerated or accepted by generations that have been indoctrinated by the ideas of enlightenment.

In Cyprus, things have never been clear cut and it must be said that each case is different. In this island, the Greek majority lived quite contented alongside the Turkish minority for as long as the Brits were here. I hate to think of what would have happened had the Brits not been here in 1922, but this can be debated another time. Our problems started when we decided, seemingly quite rightly, to become our own masters and fulfil our “perpetual” aim, which was union with Greece. In 1950, Makarios, against all the odds of logic, decided to force Greece into taking the Cyprus issue to the United Nations and make it an international issue. From 1950 till 1954 he visited Athens on a number of occasions stirring and agitating the people who listened to him rather than their wise Prime Minister(s) who knew better. Everyone loves a demagogue, at least in the beginning, before darkness falls. Before 1950, at around 1947 we kicked away our best chance when we declined the Constitutional Assembly (Diaskeptiki) offered to us by the dreaded Brits. Our history of resounding “no” goes back to 1947, unfortunately. Since then we said “no” about 14 times (someone has actually counted them).

Having placed our fate into the hands a few romantic kids who thought they could make the dream a reality in 1950 we embarked on a disastrous armed struggled against the Brits with a dogmatic Priest and a sick General as the leaders of the struggle. Thus we chose these tactics in order to achieve our age long aims without realising that in politics the losers pay forever for all. From that point, the fate of Cyprus was sealed.

Piratis and the rest of us can cry all day of the misfortunes that hit us and keep blaming the “others”. We are, at least, as much to blame. We exhibited an enormous amount of naivety since 1950 but one must be prepared to excuse this since in those days enlightened people were few and between and mostly stayed silent because their neck was permanently on the line. Remember, EOKA killed three times as many Greeks than Brits.

In 2008 however, there can be no excuses. There are rules and conditions to this game we have been playing and simply if we do not know the rules this will just not do. Christofias is doing a very good job so far. You do not need to be a deep thinker to understand this. Simply look at the list of the people that are “worried” because of the policies pursued by Christofias. On top of the list you will find Papadopoulos and his associates, Omirou, Koulias, the Archbishop and some others.

I think Talat is very positive too. He has demonstrated this on a number of occasions. However, we need to hurry. The situation in Turkey and the north will not be ideal for solution for ever. Our window of opportunity will probably close by the end of 2009. After that partition will be unavoidable but of course this does not seem to scare some people because they put their financial interests above the good of the country. In a nutshell, some Paphians, Limassolians, Ayianapans, will never agree with solution, even if we get the best of terms. These will cover their greed with a coat of nationalist jargon of the kind we witnessed in 2004.[/quote]


Hmmm.

The last three lines have the equivalent in the North I think. There are a few greedy sods who would benefit from Partition too.

[Rebel.Without.A.Pause]

Even lowly Greece in 1919, invaded Turkey and just prior to that managed what no other country in the world had achieved before. Through being on the winning side in the 1st world war and the Balkan wars that preceded it, Greece more or less quadrupled its area.

I'll think you will find it was the Ottoman Empire that Greek forces entered into, not Turkey, as it was not founded as a state yet.

Greece 'quadrupled its area' as the aress seeded to Greece were Greek lands, lived upon by Greek by people going back thousands of years, which were ruled by foreign regimes. I wouldnt put this in the same bracket as Turkey invading Cyprus, would you?