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[Viewpoint]

magikthrill I wouldnt relegate the Annan plan to toilet paper just yet you may have use it again, then where will you be (shit allover your hands) just like when you said enough why does everyone complain Papadop hasnt revealed the changes he wants, the SG knows the changes the GCs want it was all detailed in a letter dated.......

[magikthrill]

magikthrill I wouldnt relegate the Annan plan to toilet paper just yet you may have use it again, then where will you be (shit allover your hands) just like when you said enough why does everyone complain Papadop hasnt revealed the changes he wants, the SG knows the changes the GCs want it was all detailed in a letter dated.......

09/06/2004

[Kifeas]

Here we go again

- There will be no negotiations.
- What will happen if the Sun tomorrow rises from the west?

If those are the dilemmas of the President then:

a) He should not give the specific changes to the Plan
b) He should wait until a new, impartial SG is appointed, or even better a pro Greek SG is installed so that there will be no fear that he will reveal our aces to the enemy.

I apologise for the tone of my answers but I find your questions oozing with Middle East canniness. This is not how international politics are run. My reference to the so called areas of concern had to do with magicthrill's outburst that "enough is enough" that is, Papadopoulos has already given the changes he wants to the SG. So it had nothing to do with your goal posts which of course remain cemented in deep concrete and no one can move them.

Let me repeat. If we seriously want the peace process to proceed, we need to pick up the ball from our court because it has taken roots in our court. If we seriously want the Plan to be the basis of a future solution, we need to pinpoint the changes we aspire. This will not damage us. It could lead to the opening of another window of hope. We need to stop encouraging the refugees and stop filling their brains with false hopes that the courts can solve their problem. We need to stop those that are trying their damnest to caltivate suspicion between the two communities.

Bananiot,
I am sorry to say this but you are not only an opinionated and slanderous person but now I discover that you have a very defective logic as well.

You are comparing the two, highly likely to occur, scenarios that I gave you above with the possibility of the Sun to rise from the west. And you call this a logical argument!

If then none of the two possible scenarios will occur after Papadopoullos gives a list with all the specific changes that he wants, i.e. that Annan himself rules out that no ground exists for talks to convene, or that he presents them to the Turkish side which rejects them all, then for what reason he (Annan) wants to receive such a detailed and specific list with all the changes? Tell me your opinion?

If indeed either one of the two likely scenarios occurs, what happens next?

As for the ball having taken roots in our court, as you say, I say this. We are not the only ones who want to play. There are other teams in the game too. Therefore the ball will be lifted from our court ones we discover that the other teams are also interested in to playing as much as we do. And believe me there are teams who are very eager to continue playing. After all, in a soccer game your team can kick the ball if she eager to play or the opponent team can come and try to take the ball if she is more eager to play. If you are not sure that the other team wants to play then why give them the ball?

Why doesn't Kofi Annan call a new round of talks without the preconditions that he is asking and then see how it goes? After all, wasn't this exactly the same way and method on which all the previous rounds of talks, during the last 30 years, have been based on, before commencing?

[Bananiot]

Kifeas stop the pathetic rummbling. I am a slanderous person because I tell the truth about Papadopoulos and now I have a defected logic because I consider your second question completely ridiculous. Of course your one track mind stopped you from seeing the analogy. Once again, I apologise if I got carried away with name calling but in one line you call me opinionated (?), slanderous and mentally sick.

-Furthermore, what happens if Kofi Annan takes Papadopoullos detailed list and goes to the Turkish side, shows them the list and asks them whether they can accept Papadopoullos changes and they say no, none is acceptable or maybe 2 or 3 of them are but they ask for changes (in exchange) that are further worsening the plan for our side?

Annan will never do this. He has a mind of his own (despite being black) to evaluate the changes Papadopoulos is asking. Annan will accept resonable changes to his plan and when he does so, the Turkish side will once again become the intransigent part if they get stubborn and refuse to negotiate. That is how it was until Papadopoulos came to power, remember? If the changes we want are reasonable the international community will support us but isn't this what Papadopoulos is afraid of?

[Piratis]

I am a slanderous person because I tell the truth about Papadopoulos

Oh really? So you know the absolute truth and we don't?

Oh, I forgot. You are the smart one that voted "yes" and we are the idiots that voted "no".

What you say about Papadopoulos has only one aim: To give an excuse to our enemies to harm us more. Like the excuse that your people gave to the Turks with the EOKA B. You people are pathetic and will never change.

[Piratis]

If the changes we want are reasonable

Reasonable to whom? To you, to the Americans or to the great majority of GCs?

[Kifeas]

Kifeas stop the pathetic rummbling. I am a slanderous person because I tell the truth about Papadopoulos and now I have a defected logic because I consider your second question completely ridiculous. Of course your one track mind stopped you from seeing the analogy. Once again, I apologise if I got carried away with name calling but in one line you call me opinionated (?), slanderous and mentally sick.

-Furthermore, what happens if Kofi Annan takes Papadopoullos detailed list and goes to the Turkish side, shows them the list and asks them whether they can accept Papadopoullos changes and they say no, none is acceptable or maybe 2 or 3 of them are but they ask for changes (in exchange) that are further worsening the plan for our side?

Annan will never do this. He has a mind of his own (despite being black) to evaluate the changes Papadopoulos is asking. Annan will accept resonable changes to his plan and when he does so, the Turkish side will once again become the intransigent part if they get stubborn and refuse to negotiate. That is how it was until Papadopoulos came to power, remember? If the changes we want are reasonable the international community will support us but isn't this what Papadopoulos is afraid of?

Ridicules question?
No my friend, it is not a ridicules question. It is a highly possible move by Annan so that he doesn't take it all up to his shoulders for not taking up a new initiative and starting a new round of negotiations. Furthermore, the Turkish side would never agree to enter into a new round of talks should they know that we gave a list with detailed changes, if they do not see the list of the changes we want, first. It is much more easy for the Turks to be convinced to proceed for talks if the negotiations will be open, than to know that the GC side has given a list with changes which they do not know.

Furthermore, after having seen Kofi Annan’s (and his representative’s) way of handling things during the last round of talks, I personally would trust them a penny. Especially after having seen the kind of report he prepared to explain the failure of his plan to the Security Council.

Bananiot, what you are asking from Papadopoullos to do, will have in the end only two possible outcomes. The first is to have again the Annan plan back to a referendum with only some decorative changes (most preferable to you as this will honour and justify your "Yes" decision in the last referendum,) or we will be loaded again with the responsibilities and the blame for being the uncompromising side, with whatever catastrophic consequences this may have for our side.

I asked another question in my pervious posting which you didn't answer.
I repeat it again.
Why doesn't Kofi Annan call a new round of talks without the preconditions that he is asking and then see how it goes? After all, wasn't this exactly the same way and method on which all the previous rounds of talks during the last 30 years, have been based on?

[Viewpoint]

Kifeas

Why doesn't Kofi Annan call a new round of talks without the preconditions that he is asking and then see how it goes? After all, wasn't this exactly the same way and method on which all the previous rounds of talks during the last 30 years, have been based on?

You are an intelligent person when you want to be, but when it suits you you play ignorant. Annan has expressed great disappointment in the GC no, everyone (including GCs themelves) who put a lot of work and effort into the Annan plan felt betrayed and let down by the GC rejection so no one wants to take any chances and start on a road that will only lead to a negative result. Thats why he wats to see if Papadops wants are feasible is it worth going back to the table if he demands changes which are so extreeme that they will in essence change the philosphy of the plan, hes aware that Papadop may use these tactics to delay any solution and stay in power, thats what he appears to doing right now, Annan is very experienced with dealing with both sides and knows what he can and cannot get out of each leader. He is shrewed and again has passed the ball in to the GC court, but the GCs do not appear to see or even want to hit the ball back.

[Kifeas]

Kifeas

Why doesn't Kofi Annan call a new round of talks without the preconditions that he is asking and then see how it goes? After all, wasn't this exactly the same way and method on which all the previous rounds of talks during the last 30 years, have been based on?

You are an intelligent person when you want to be, but when it suits you you play ignorant. Annan has expressed great disappointment in the GC no, everyone (including GCs themelves) who put a lot of work and effort into the Annan plan felt betrayed and let down by the GC rejection so no one wants to take any chances and start on a road that will only lead to a negative result. (Greek Cypriots felt betrate by him too both by his handlings during the last round of talks and his notorious pro -Turkish arbitration on the very last moment.) Thats why he wats to see if Papadops wants are feasible is it worth going back to the table if he demands changes which are so extreeme that they will in essence change the philosphy of the plan,(who decides what lies within the philosophy of the plan and what is not? What is the philosophy of the plan, anyway?) hes aware that Papadop may use these tactics to delay any solution and stay in power, (stay in power? who decites on who is on power other than the GC people?) thats what he appears to doing right now, Annan is very experienced with dealing with both sides and knows what he can and cannot get out of each leader. (So does Papadopoullos. You can be a very good PR agent for Annan, if you do not know it.) He is shrewed and again has passed the ball in to the GC court, but the GCs do not appear to see or even want to hit the ball back. (We are happy to have the ball in our court. Those who want us to kick it, they can say so and come and pick it up.)

[Viewpoint]

Kifeas

(Greek Cypriots felt betrate by him too both by his handlings during the last round of talks and his notorious pro -Turkish arbitration on the very last moment.)

Doesnt this reveal anything to you about the man, please be honest you will not state anything we dont already know.

,(who decides what lies within the philosophy of the plan and what is not? What is the philosophy of the plan, anyway?)

The philosophy is already in place, Annan 5 , if Papadop demands changes to lets say bicommunal/bizonal issue then hes attempting to alter the philosophy of the plan but if he requests that army be removed over a shorter period of time this is not changing the philosophy. I feel this is where the problem is, his demands are so extreme that he cannot play his cards in the open for fear of the wrath of the world which this time could result in something that cannot be explained away, he is well aware that this time around he cannot hide behind anyone like Denktas and the international arena will not tollerate what happened last time, he has to play for real and anything short of the "RoC" with TCs as a minority to him would a total disaster. That why hes playing the EU card against Turkey waiting for their signature and 3rd october to gain more leverage to obtain more of his demands.

(stay in power? who decites on who is on power other than the GC people?)

You guys wont realize what we see now until time passes and you despair at his antics his lies and deceptions become more and more evident, then maybe you will change but by that time dont expect things to progress or point the finger at anyone else but yourselves.

(So does Papadopoullos. You can be a very good PR agent for Annan, if you do not know it.)

Thanks ill take that as a compliment but realistically GCs hate or proclaim anyone a traitor, turk lover whenever anything negative is said about their community and its handling of the cyprus issue, its a natural reaction for cypriots.

We are happy to have the ball in our court. Those who want us to kick it, they can say so and come and pick it up.

Did you realize that football is not the only game in the world thats uses a ball, I always consider that we are playing tennis, and that you GCs cannot find the ball and are not willing to hit it back into our part of the tennis court.