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[achilles]

What I am trying to say, Murtaza obviously does not know much about Greek history - sorry Murtaza but ancient Macedonia and Troia were all Greek states - but you overgeneralise this to whole Turkish education system.

Thank you very much for pointing out the OBVIOUS, honestly. Some people tend to look at the tip of the finger and not where the fingers points at. Yes i overgeneralize because i am firmly convinced that they are hiding major historical facts from you, like the Minor Asia holocaust, which includes, at least, the Armenian and Pontian Genocides.

Likewise, you do not have much about OTtoman history and you believe the Turks only commit genocides but nothing else.

I have discussed this with erolz quite extensively. Thats not what i am saying, and do not count my sarcastic posts when you draw conclusions about what i meant. In any case, the Turkish genocides remain undisputable historical facts, even though Turkey has a well lubricated multi million dollar denial machine. I bet that in a few decades down the line you will admit your past.

Besides supporting inferiority of a nation to another is racistic approach. Discriminating peoples in terms of race, ethnic background and religion all means racism. But it's fine if you keep tricking yourself by saying "oh I am not racist but I support inferiority of Turkish nation to Greek nation". This is a very pathetic statement and deserves ZERO respect. If you haven't said that and if you dare to talk about Murtaza by not generalizing his attitude towards whole Turkish society, we would have discussed the Greek history and Turkish history together. We would have enlighetned eachother by doing so.

Again, i have explained that 'cultural superiority' in terms of cultural contribution to the rest of the world is one thing, and 'racial superiority' is another. Please, dont try to make it look otherwise. What people acheive is not only up to them but also up to a vast amount of exogenous parameters. The Greeks had a very advanced civilization for climatic, geographic, geological and topological reasons and not because they came from outter space as some hilarious people tend to claim. Their initial endowment of conditions were quite different as compared to the ancestors of other civilizations. How much more can i break it down? I strongly believe that all people are 'tabula rasa' and have the same potential at birth. Yet, probabilistic as well other factors largely determine their degree of acheivement. Now please spare me the racist part cause thats not what i am talking about.

For your accusing of all Turkish members in this forum with ignorance, then I think you are far more ignorant than everyone else in this forum

.

Didnt i say SOME TUrkish members? What is this with you people? Is it your reading comprehension or am i not getting the message through?
ANd of course this latest claim of yours is moronic at best, professor.

I, myself had studied ancient Greek history, read many writings by Greek philosophers, at the same time I have studied Ottoman history from the professors who had even taught in respectful universities such as Harvard, UCLA and Princeton. Again, without knowing each person seperately, you overgeneralise them and this makes you the most biased person vis-a-vis the other forum users

You just managed to contradict yourself twice:

think you are far more ignorant than everyone else in this forum

this makes you the most biased person vis-a-vis the other forum users

You preach on objectivity and 'generalization' yet your aphoristic statements proove how little you know about what you THINK you are lecturing me on.

Nonetheless, it was interesting to see how your argument switched from 'neo-nazi' to 'ignorant' and 'biased'. Thats definitely a progress.

[achilles]

One last comment: achilles represents the notorious approach of "Orientalism", which the West has been following since the Middle Ages to justify their imperialist policies over other peoples in other parts of the world. Since people living in "oriental" territories, they have no capacity to be civilised and the West brought them "civilisation" and "modernity" by colonising them. Yeah, definitely achilles is one fine example to it!

Your attempt to put spice on what i say i amusing. I am curious to see what you will come up with next.

What does colonization and imperialism(in the post-classical era that you are referring to) has to do with what i said and Greece, garbitsch? It is true that other people have used the same rhetoric for an evil cause. Nuclear technology has been also used for evil causes, yet that does not mean that nuclear technololgy is detrimental in principle, now is it?

I suspect that you username pertains to the validity of your accussations/'argumentation' against me.

*waiting to be accussed for the Jewish holocaust*

[Murtaza]

Ah ask the macedonian people if they are Greek.

I didnt say I know much about greek history. But I think Macedonian people have more knowledge about their history. And they refuse to called greek.

Dont idea of Troy but didnt ever hear it is a greek city.
Infact achileus even not sure if it is a greek city or not.

"It is moot whether Troy was non-Greek. There is mounting evidence according to which the Trojans were a Greek tribe, based on their everyday way of living and their language. How come all their names are Greek? But i cannot speak with certainty on that one, not even historians can, as far as i know... "

So if it is mood I can say it is not greek and you can say it is greek. What is difference.

What I know about greek history and culture is more much better than what achilleus know Turkish history and culture. I didnt underdogged Greek culture but he did. But I am sure he was shocked when he saw Taj Mahal or learned we have our democracy too.
I hope now you learned some thing about Turkish culture Achilleus.

More you dont know more you afraid.
Learn it.

[suetoniuspaulinus]

It might be of interest to some that according to Homer Achilles weak point was his pride. Will it go before his fall?

[achilles]

Ah ask the macedonian people if they are Greek.

I didnt say I know much about greek history. But I think Macedonian people have more knowledge about their history. And they refuse to called greek.

Dont idea of Troy but didnt ever hear it is a greek city.
Infact achileus even not sure if it is a greek city or not.

"It is moot whether Troy was non-Greek. There is mounting evidence according to which the Trojans were a Greek tribe, based on their everyday way of living and their language. How come all their names are Greek? But i cannot speak with certainty on that one, not even historians can, as far as i know... "

So if it is mood I can say it is not greek and you can say it is greek. What is difference.

What I know about greek history and culture is more much better than what achilleus know Turkish history and culture. I didnt underdogged Greek culture but he did. But I am sure he was shocked when he saw Taj Mahal or learned we have our democracy too.
I hope now you learned some thing about Turkish culture Achilleus.

More you dont know more you afraid.
Learn it.

As i said in the other thread, you epitomize 'ignorance' and 'idiocy' in their most strict definitions. Please, try not to further waste my time. Take a look at what garbitsch says and you might learn something since you wont take anything from me. Also, take a look on how me and erolz exchange our opinions, it might be an interesting learning experience for you.

Salut...

[Murtaza]

Ah ask the macedonian people if they are Greek.

I didnt say I know much about greek history. But I think Macedonian people have more knowledge about their history. And they refuse to called greek.

Dont idea of Troy but didnt ever hear it is a greek city.
Infact achileus even not sure if it is a greek city or not.

"It is moot whether Troy was non-Greek. There is mounting evidence according to which the Trojans were a Greek tribe, based on their everyday way of living and their language. How come all their names are Greek? But i cannot speak with certainty on that one, not even historians can, as far as i know... "

So if it is mood I can say it is not greek and you can say it is greek. What is difference.

What I know about greek history and culture is more much better than what achilleus know Turkish history and culture. I didnt underdogged Greek culture but he did. But I am sure he was shocked when he saw Taj Mahal or learned we have our democracy too.
I hope now you learned some thing about Turkish culture Achilleus.

More you dont know more you afraid.
Learn it.

As i said in the other thread, you epitomize 'ignorance' and 'idiocy' in their most strict definitions. Please, try not to further waste my time. Take a look at what garbitsch says and you might learn something since you wont take anything from me. Also, take a look on how me and erolz exchange our opinions, it might be an interesting learning experience for you.

Salut...

Thank for teaching me a lot.

[achilles]

Thank for teaching me a lot.

Anytime, but you should also thank garbitsch for telling you that Macedonian was, is, and will remain Greek, although a small chunk of it belongs now to Slavic people who feel proud to be called 'Macedonians'. Hell, thats life...a bitch

[Murtaza]

Thank for teaching me a lot.

Anytime, but you should also thank garbitsch for telling you that Macedonian was, is, and will remain Greek, although a small chunk of it belongs now to Slavic people who feel proud to be called 'Macedonians'. Hell, thats life...a bitch

http://faq.macedonia.org/history/alexan ... great.html

I dont understand your problem. Macedonians dont call themself Greek and you force them for telling you greek.
I am not sure but someone also force Turks you are not Turk but Greek who becomed Muslim.
What is your problem, If they call themself other than greek just let them.
I wont force anyone for call himself Turk. And I dont think macedonians are slav. But they say we are not greek so should accept them. And As I know they speak other language than Greeks.

[achilles]

Thank for teaching me a lot.

Anytime, but you should also thank garbitsch for telling you that Macedonian was, is, and will remain Greek, although a small chunk of it belongs now to Slavic people who feel proud to be called 'Macedonians'. Hell, thats life...a bitch

http://faq.macedonia.org/history/alexan ... great.html

I dont understand your problem. Macedonians dont call themself Greek and you force them for telling you greek.
I am not sure but someone also force Turks you are not Turk but Greek who becomed Muslim.
What is your problem, If they call themself other than greek just let them.
I wont force anyone for call himself Turk. And I dont think macedonians are slav. But they say we are not greek so should accept them. And As I know they speak other language than Greeks.

SInce you seem to be interested in the Macedonian affairs, i will try to explain it to you in a brief and concise way later on, as soon as i find some time. Its always good to ask if you dont know something, you know...trully man, you live on another planet.

[Murtaza]

SInce you seem to be interested in the Macedonian affairs, i will try to explain it to you in a brief and concise way later on, as soon as i find some time. Its always good to ask if you dont know something, you know...trully man, you live on another planet.

No I talked with some macedonians and They say our culture is different.
Even they told me some pages.
And even I hear some bulgarian call macedonians as bulgarian.

http://historyofmacedonia.org/
http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/Ancie ... adian.html

And I dont think they use a slavish langauge. Am I wrong?