Cyprus-Forum.com

[achilles]

Well said, Kifeas

[magikthrill]

And finally to the question of Magikthrill

Magik the Ottoman blacksmiths used to hot dip their swords and war axes in a barrel of blood.(OK it's barbaric I know, please don't vomit)They thought this would give them "devine killing strength". The astonishing thing is it did!!! It made their "hatzars" (?) extremely hard, unbreakable, and always sharp enough to take off someones head with a single strike!
This however was the first breakthrough in modern treatment of steel, i.e the first basic way to harden the steel is to add traces of carbon in it when it melts.(the blood the Ottomans used contained carbon)

hehe thanks mate

BUT i believe it was the japaense that were actually first to do this. they actually came up with other methods as well including urinating on swords. i cant remeember the exact reactions that take place since its been over a year since i took the course but our chinese professor had an obsession with swords and it came up on every exam. too bad its all down the drain now

[garbitsch]

The argument I was put against, was that there are no proofs for Ottoman Turkish atrocities in Cyprus.

It is your insanity that you waste your time by replying such argument that Ottomans did no atrocities in Cyprus.

Of course during the 300 years of Ottoman hardships, the Ottoman Turks would have done some positive things too. However, the overall picture of these 300 years was one of atrocities, oppression and hardships. Even the ordinary TCs, which were paying half the taxes than those the CGs were paying, were often revolting against the Ottoman Turks. Very many GCs were made to change their religion and become Muslims in order to pay fewer taxes.

Again, you are playing the game of "they did some positive things too, BUT....". We are not saying that they never oppressed people or committed atrocities bla bla bla. But the overall picture you depict is your own comment. No scolar might agree with you on the claim that Ottoman Turks had always been committing atrocities, genocides and hardships for every subject. The cases you gave as examples are tiny dots in the overall picture. Was every single Greek boy abducated by Ottomans? Was every single Greek girl forced to be part of Harem? As I said told you, the abducated Greek boys were raised by Turkish families and they became part of the Janissaries, which was in the highest hierarchy after Sultan. They were rich and respectful. The women in harem were also having a very luxurious life and it is said the Sultan slept with a girl for once or twice. So they were not heavily oppressed or mistreated by the Sultan and even these girls could become very powerful mother sultan like Hurrem Sultan or as you call Roxane.

You do not mention however that the only reason they imposed all the above was to categorise people and collect taxes, in fact much more taxes form the Christians, in a better way.

That's your own assumption...

Didn’t the massacre of 20,000 Nicosians on the day of Nicosia’s fall happen?
Didn’t the massacre of an equal number of people after the fall of Famagusta happen?
Didn’t the Ottoman Turks arrest MarcAntonio Bragadino after the surrender of Famagusta, cut his nose and ears, boiled him alive and pilled off his skin and stuffed it with straw and had him go around the city until he died?

Didn’t people on every occasion, no matter how insignificant it was, were put to death by beheading or hanging?

Didn’t the Ottoman Turks use to grab the daughters of GCs and put them into harems or sent them to the sultan for his pleasures and force them to change their religion?

Didn’t the Ottoman Turks use to grab the young sons of GCs and force them to become janissaries?

Didn’t they impose very heavy taxes on the people and make their lives totally unbearable, forcing many of them to abandon Cyprus and go to other countries in Europe?

Didn’t they arrest Archbishop Kyprianos, all the bishops and some 486 prominent GCs within one night and on the 9th of July 1821 they begun executing them one by one for 10 consecutive days?
Kyprianos and the 5 bishops were hanged, some 300 others had their heads chopped and the rest, another 200, suffered one of the most cruel-some methods of execution, called “palloukoma”?

Nothing of all the above happened? Only the few good things that you highlighted are the deeds of the Ottoman Turks? The approximately 250 thousand GCs who vanished during the 300 years of Ottoman tyranny, only because of the killings, abductions and hardships of the Ottomans, do not count for you?

You indirectly accused me of trying to cheat on everybody in this forum because of the way I presented my previous posting, although I was answering exactly the question I was asked by Murtaza, who asked me to provide evidence, and that I deliberately attempted to defame the Ottoman Turks and through them the TCs.

If this was my intention, then I would also have not included the fact that ordinary TCs were mistreated to some extend, which comes out clearly from my inclusion of the sentence below.

“ Occasional Turkish Cypriot uprisings, sometimes with their Christian neighbors, against confiscatory taxes also failed.”

If I left things out intentionally as you claimed, then why I included the above part?

This was a 300 hundred year old rule in Cyprus and you come up with such incidents that each and every empire in the world had experienced? I am not going to deny these incidents although the numbers must be overexaggerated by you, but this should not make us and the Turks in Turkey to be ashamed of their ancestors.

Are you a Cypriot or an Ottoman Turk?

I am a Turkish Cypriot whose ancestors were Ottoman Turks. The only reason why you are so obsessed by the Ottoman rule and do everything to show it as a barbaric is because of the hatred towards Turks that you keep silent in your mind. If you are not that hateful, why do you always bother to show Ottomans as cruel, barbaric, inhumane etc? Why don't people like Bananiot, Saint Jimmy, Magik etc bother to engage in discussions regarding the Ottoman rule in Greece and in Cyprus? What would you do if the Turkish CYpriot posters keep denouncing the Byzantine rule and the new Greek state founded in 1800s, and the atrocities they committed to Turks (by overexaggerating of course)?

[detailer]

Well achilles,

I still expect some bright examples how turkish in greece joined the society( dont forget we were comparing it to kurdish in turkey). I will really love to learn that.

I also expect some bright explanations why turkish in Cyprus or Greece can not claim autonomy but kurdish can( I expect something other than that we are barbarian)

Personally I have losses in my family because of greeks but that doesnt make my mood bad anymore ( I DONT LET IT HAPPEN) and more importantly I dont use it to provacete anyone.

Listen I can come up with millions of turkish and muslims who were killed by greeks and your other lovely democratic brothers in the balkans around 1910 but that does not take us to anywhere.

But you go on wih that bad mood my friend for 353000 people.
Save it in your heart.
Promise yourself you will get back what these barbarians got from you.
That will bring us peace and happiness.

If you realise, invading was not the main point in my discussion, I said RULING. And a ruling does not go for 300000 years, if it is ony based on cruelty. But this fact might be too simple for you to understand my friend

[boulio]

1910? do you mean during the balkan wars?

[garbitsch]

Genocides committed by Turks:
-Armenian genocide
-Genocide of Hellens in Smyrna
-Pontian Genocide
-Assyrian Genocide
-Kurdish Genocide
-Brazilian genocide
.
.
.
.
I am going to commit suicide now. I cannot live with this shame anymore!!!

[achilles]

Well achilles,

I still expect some bright examples how turkish in greece joined the society( dont forget we were comparing it to kurdish in turkey). I will really love to learn that.

The cornerstone of integration pertains mainly to parliamentary represetnation. The Turkish minority has been enjoying that for many years now. Still, what you are trying to compare is incomparable...the Greeks have a bigger tradition in what is now called 'Turkey' as opposed to the Turks who have not managed to establish anything solid during the Ottoman occupation, apart from the fact that my grandmother used to say 'Baktse' instead of 'garden'. Two different cases, whose roots go back in time. In any case the Turks are not quite famous for making the most out of what they have in their hands...Greek Citizenship in that case....

I also expect some bright explanations why turkish in Cyprus or Greece can not claim autonomy but kurdish can( I expect something other than that we are barbarian)

I have explained that quite thoroughly in the other thread. Feel like going in circles? If you havent understood something let me know and i would be more than glad to elaborate...

Personally I have losses in my family because of greeks but that doesnt make my mood bad anymore ( I DONT LET IT HAPPEN) and more importantly I dont use it to provacete anyone.

I pressume you are a Turkish-Cypriot? I never denied the fact that the Greek-Cypriots comitted crimes against your people. Having said that, i suggest that you should save the anger management tutorial for another time. And i am trully sorry to hear about the losses of your family...

Listen I can come up with millions of turkish and muslims who were killed by greeks and your other lovely democratic brothers in the balkans around 1910 but that does not take us to anywhere.

Millions? Sources, references, testimonies, please. Although i know that this is a bunch of crap. This is what they are teaching you in order to cover up the Christian Holocaust for which your Young Turk ancestors are fully responsible.

But you go on wih that bad mood my friend for 353000 people.
Save it in your heart.
Promise yourself you will get back what these barbarians got from you.
That will bring us peace and happiness.

Again...speaking from inside the well of morality and innocence . Its typical.
In any case i said my mood is not in a good shape due to the day of remembrance (did you say you recognize the Pontian Genocide?). Frankly, i am fully in favour of a 'i remember but i forgive' sort of attitude. It is good to avoid rushing into fast conclusions about my mentality and attitude towards sensitive issues, in order to create false impressions.

If you realise, invading was not the main point in my discussion, I said RULING. And a ruling does not go for 300000 years, if it is ony based on cruelty. But this fact might be too simple for you to understand my friend

I ll be fully honest with you here and say that i have no idea of what you are talking about in this chunk of your post.

[achilles]

Genocides committed by Turks:
-Armenian genocide
-Genocide of Hellens in Smyrna
-Pontian Genocide
-Assyrian Genocide
-Kurdish Genocide
-Brazilian genocide
.
.
.
.
I am going to commit suicide now. I cannot live with this shame anymore!!!

The Brazilian genocide is part of a delicate sense of humour that i dont understand. The Kurdish genocide is a bit obscure and not quite consolidated in historical terms. Put the rest in one basket, name the basket 'The Christian Holocaust' and you get the whole picture. Or at least most of it.

Denial is as bad as the genocide itself. It deprives survivors from their last frop of dignity.

[achilles]

What would you do if the Turkish CYpriot posters keep denouncing the Byzantine rule and the new Greek state founded in 1800s, and the atrocities they committed to Turks (by overexaggerating of course)?

Oh you mean like the attrocities comitted on Nazis : by the Allied Powers, right?

I remember a Turk, a ferocious advocate of the grey wolf terrorist militia, posting 'facts' about Greek attrocities comitted in the Peloponese during our revolution...

Lets get serious for a change shall we?

[Kifeas]

This was a 300 hundred year old rule in Cyprus and you come up with such incidents that each and every empire in the world had experienced? I am not going to deny these incidents although the numbers must be overexaggerated by you, but this should not make us and the Turks in Turkey to be ashamed of their ancestors.

My friend,
I didn’t write all these things, none of which is over-exaggerated btw, in order to make you feel ashamed, as you accuse me. Murtaza and Sunetiouspaulinus provoked me by claiming that they were all lies and asked for impartial evidence. This game of victimization is only played by TCs in this forum. They always accuse us (GCs) for committing atrocities in the sixties, for attempting genocide against the TCs, etc, etc.

But I suppose it is okay for you to continuously write volumes of pages in this forum against the GCs and how cruel and inhumane they were in the sixties, although no more than 750 TCs were killed during 11 years, in order to victimise us for something that happened 40 years ago and also use it as an excuse to impose your way of solution on us; but is not okay for us to even write one or two postings, even though we were induced to do so, due to your complete denial.