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How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Murtaza » Wed May 18, 2005 2:26 pm

EOKA wrote:Murtaza. I hope you find the proof. All I can say is that there are numerous websites on the internet and thus you can do a Google search. I am no historian so I can not tell you much about the genocides for fear of being wrong. All I know is that these atrocities did occur and that the Turkish Republic should acknowledge this fact. The people of Turkey need not apologise for this as they are not to blame. History however should not be denied.

PS. Your English is fine. :?


Problem is not our apologise.If we believe a Genocide happened we have to apologise.The problem is we dont believe it.And when we said, Lets some historian investigate about history. The answer is no You should accept this.No search no Proof. Why they dont look to archives of Ottomans.After All They are the main actor.(for Armenian Genocide)If someone should accept Genocide They should believe it to.Unless acceptance Apologise would be futile.

For the Greek part. I dont ever hear Greeks accuse us for genocide. Maybe some killing becomed(Turk are killed too).That times were hard times. But If you are claiming a mass killing , I want to learn about that topic. I am not sure but I dont think greeks was prefering Venetian to Ottoman. My knowledge about cyprus history is limited. Did they prefer Venetian?
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Postby garbitsch » Wed May 18, 2005 2:39 pm

The Greeks accusing Ottomans for being mass murderers and genocidists again! This is nothing new! Keep it up mates!!!!

Murtaza, it seems you are new here. Don't bother to make them believe that we weren't more cruel than other European imperialists, but since they are Greeks and they are prejudiced against Turks (although they funnily deny that), they will never accept the fact that Ottomans were not cruel to any of its subjects. Ottomans were not practicing today's Swiss law for sure, and this is a fact that Ottomans severly surpressed the independence demands of their subjects, but claiming that Ottomans were ALWAYS killing Greeks, Armenians bla bla bla is simply the outcome of a very good brainwashing process...
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Postby EOKA » Wed May 18, 2005 2:50 pm

Murtaza, just do yourself a favour and do a google search on the internet. Here you will be able to research all you want on the topic and learn whatever you want.
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Postby brother » Wed May 18, 2005 3:04 pm

Yes you will learn all about greek propoganda that has more holes in it than a fishing net and also learn how much they hate anything turkish.
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Postby Murtaza » Wed May 18, 2005 3:15 pm

brother wrote:Yes you will learn all about greek propoganda that has more holes in it than a fishing net and also learn how much they hate anything turkish.


Just one question. isnt Ottoman archives are more trustful than the internet search? What you learn from internet is mostly related to who made the web page.

http://www.tallarmeniantale.com/armenia ... ussian.htm

I did find this too.
look Armenians made genocide!Or at least tried.
And If I look for greeks crime. Be sure I can find some crimes did in anatolian too.

It looks like I can find what I want in internet.

I didnt hear any official claim from Greek goverment.
And from Armenian claims are not worked by historian but politician.

"Belgium Senate's Justice Commission has postponed sessions regarding a bill envisioning penalties for those, who deny the so-called Armenian genocide allegations, to today due to its busy agenda.

If the bill is approved at the Justice Commission, is aimed to be presented for the approval of the executive board prior to July. The bill asks for penalties to be imposed on those who deny the so-called genocide allegations, either with imprisonment between eight days to a one year or with a fine of between 26 to 5,000 euros. "

Why are they afraiding?
Why dont they accept our proposal for investigation about Armenian Genocide?(Not Just turkish historian or not just Armenian Historian But also neutral historian)
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Postby EOKA » Wed May 18, 2005 3:28 pm

The Turkish archives were cleaned of any publications that made reference to the Turkish genocide of Armenians. There is plenty of material in the Washington State Library in the USA.

Also there many independant sites on the internet that make reference to the Armenian genocide.
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Postby Murtaza » Wed May 18, 2005 3:32 pm

EOKA wrote:The Turkish archives were cleaned of any publications that made reference to the Turkish genocide of Armenians. There is plenty of material in the Washington State Library in the USA.

Also there many independant sites on the internet that make reference to the Armenian genocide.

i
It is again us who wish all archives should be opened to public.
we cleaned Armenian archives, U.S archives, Russian archives?
You are owerpowering Turkey.
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Postby Murtaza » Wed May 18, 2005 3:36 pm

Murtaza wrote:
EOKA wrote:The Turkish archives were cleaned of any publications that made reference to the Turkish genocide of Armenians. There is plenty of material in the Washington State Library in the USA.

Also there many independant sites on the internet that make reference to the Armenian genocide.

i
It is again us who wish all archives should be opened to public.
we cleaned Armenian archives, U.S archives, Russian archives?
You are owerpowering Turkey.


UK:)
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Postby MicAtCyp » Wed May 18, 2005 6:07 pm

Kifeas wrote: In 1878 when the Ottoman Turks gave Cyprus to the British, the Turkish Cypriots were 25% of the population. Of course you have to take into consideration that many Greek Cypriots vanished or emigrated from Cyprus during the 300 years of Ottoman Turkish oppression due to the hard ships, torturing and mass murders by the Ottoman Turks.


Mutraza wrote: Any Proof? I mean if Ottoman mades that much mass murder, Arent Greeks too much in land now? Just have a proof about this murders? Or link ? want to learn about this mass murders and torturings. I mean a link show proofs not words. I dont know if they did or not. But Ottomans were not like of genocide. I will be happy if you show me proof.


I agree they were not for genocite. That was an exageration. What they were actually having was for a network of governing system, based on very heavy taxation and de-juicing.The system usually provided for harsh punishments to those who were not abiding (usually death). The oppression included many forms as for example getting the beatiful daughters or even wives of the people by force into the harems. It was not uncommon for a pasa to take off some heads, when he would smell "danger" of "revolt" or even hear some "complains". That helped "secure" the system. You can make your own research in the internet about the Ottoman era to see that what kept the "order" of the Ottoman system was the "cutting of heads".
The final result was that the sultans and pasas were living like kings by dejuicing the people. So yes they were not doing genocide, because who would they dejuice then, but this does not mean they were reluctant in taking heads off at all.

By the way don't be mistaken that the Ottomans were onlly oppressing the Greeks.The Turks themselves were considered filthy peasants and they were equally oppressed.One pasa (of Croatian origin) massacred thousands of Turks who revolted in just one day. When you read the poem of Rigas Phereos (thourios tou Riga) you will clearly see that he WAS NOT calling only the GREEKS to revolt.He was calling everybody even the TURKS to revolt.

About the number of "TCs" you can refer to the Cyprus conflict web site
http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/narrative-main.htm

In there you can see that immediately after the British took over the number of "mouslims" in Cyprus started diminishing very fast. The writter attributes this to the fact that many Christians were simply "mouslims" on paper to avoid heavy taxation.So after the new ruler came they reverted to their original religion and this dropped down the number of "TCs" to 18% where it remained steady until 1974.

by the way Mutraza here is where you can find proof.
http://www.google.com/
Write the words "Ottoman attrocities" in the search box and then press "SEARCH". You will be reading for days or even weeks....


PS.Do you know that the Ottomans actually contributed to modern science through their barbaric methods? You want to know how?
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Postby magikthrill » Wed May 18, 2005 6:13 pm

MicAtCyp wrote:PS.Do you know that the Ottomans actually contributed to modern science through their barbaric methods? You want to know how?


oo oo oo I do I do
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