Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

Iceman and Deniz thanks re the Galatia info.

Zan, you left some key comments in Turkish, so tell us the meaning of those phrases. I gather from what Iceman has written that the comment was "So what, we are a minority already". Is that what the people said? Does that not ring any alarms in your head, now that you can see the situation from close up?

The atmosphere you describe, the enmity between Cypriot and mainlander is so reminiscent of those pre 1974 days but the players were different then, it was GCs and the mainlanders from Greece. Ours however did not sit on our necks and take over property.

As for the Turkish signs, what is so special about those? We have them all over the RoC.

[Tim Drayton]

...anyway, I like the learning, so thanks O.

(You are the one with objections and instructions as to what I should post .... pathetic little fascist )

my Oracle, if i may say, this is uncalled for: too much, with the signature you have now. but, your work is always a stimulus toward thought; humbly, I say.

Sorry RW ... but he does pick on me so, and as you can see he has a strong following ready to dig the knife in deeper on his behalf (nasty Bubbles using my name in an attempt to intimidate, in her usual underhand fashion ).

I just could not understand his objection, when he never complains about the reams of nonsenses halil posts ..... Oh well prejudices abound.

My signature is a reminder of the poem (of which it is but an extract) which so far not a SINGLE Turks-TC has condemned .... (on at least two forums ).

Always have to have your little dig don't you. So predictable - like being in a schoolyard full of 4 year olds - but there is no one else around but you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go on then, tell me what is wrong with using your name? I notice you do not complain when other people use it? Pathetic


BTW, I don't care tuppence about your signature, but I would have thought that a person like you would not have to degrade yourself with obscenities, but hey - that is obviously YOU!

The really funny thing is that this is a wildly inaccurate translation of the original poem and there is no equivalent of the "f" word, or anything like it, in the corresponding line of original Turkish version.

[denizaksulu]

...anyway, I like the learning, so thanks O.

(You are the one with objections and instructions as to what I should post .... pathetic little fascist )

my Oracle, if i may say, this is uncalled for: too much, with the signature you have now. but, your work is always a stimulus toward thought; humbly, I say.

Sorry RW ... but he does pick on me so, and as you can see he has a strong following ready to dig the knife in deeper on his behalf (nasty Bubbles using my name in an attempt to intimidate, in her usual underhand fashion ).

I just could not understand his objection, when he never complains about the reams of nonsenses halil posts ..... Oh well prejudices abound.

My signature is a reminder of the poem (of which it is but an extract) which so far not a SINGLE Turks-TC has condemned .... (on at least two forums ).

Always have to have your little dig don't you. So predictable - like being in a schoolyard full of 4 year olds - but there is no one else around but you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go on then, tell me what is wrong with using your name? I notice you do not complain when other people use it? Pathetic


BTW, I don't care tuppence about your signature, but I would have thought that a person like you would not have to degrade yourself with obscenities, but hey - that is obviously YOU!

The really funny thing is that this is a wildly inaccurate translation of the original poem and there is no equivalent of the "f" word, or anything like it, in the corresponding line of original Turkish version.

Tim, if available would you please PM me the original lines. My interest is, that the f....word might be implied....but just curious. Translations are not as easy as people think and only someone of your credentials would know that.

Regards

[Tim Drayton]

...anyway, I like the learning, so thanks O.

(You are the one with objections and instructions as to what I should post .... pathetic little fascist )

my Oracle, if i may say, this is uncalled for: too much, with the signature you have now. but, your work is always a stimulus toward thought; humbly, I say.

Sorry RW ... but he does pick on me so, and as you can see he has a strong following ready to dig the knife in deeper on his behalf (nasty Bubbles using my name in an attempt to intimidate, in her usual underhand fashion ).

I just could not understand his objection, when he never complains about the reams of nonsenses halil posts ..... Oh well prejudices abound.

My signature is a reminder of the poem (of which it is but an extract) which so far not a SINGLE Turks-TC has condemned .... (on at least two forums ).

Always have to have your little dig don't you. So predictable - like being in a schoolyard full of 4 year olds - but there is no one else around but you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go on then, tell me what is wrong with using your name? I notice you do not complain when other people use it? Pathetic


BTW, I don't care tuppence about your signature, but I would have thought that a person like you would not have to degrade yourself with obscenities, but hey - that is obviously YOU!

The really funny thing is that this is a wildly inaccurate translation of the original poem and there is no equivalent of the "f" word, or anything like it, in the corresponding line of original Turkish version.

Tim, if available would you please PM me the original lines. My interest is, that the f....word might be implied....but just curious. Translations are not as easy as people think and only someone of your credentials would know that.

Regards

Judge for yourself. These are the first two lines of verse four.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=18935

[denizaksulu]

...anyway, I like the learning, so thanks O.

(You are the one with objections and instructions as to what I should post .... pathetic little fascist )

my Oracle, if i may say, this is uncalled for: too much, with the signature you have now. but, your work is always a stimulus toward thought; humbly, I say.

Sorry RW ... but he does pick on me so, and as you can see he has a strong following ready to dig the knife in deeper on his behalf (nasty Bubbles using my name in an attempt to intimidate, in her usual underhand fashion ).

I just could not understand his objection, when he never complains about the reams of nonsenses halil posts ..... Oh well prejudices abound.

My signature is a reminder of the poem (of which it is but an extract) which so far not a SINGLE Turks-TC has condemned .... (on at least two forums ).

Always have to have your little dig don't you. So predictable - like being in a schoolyard full of 4 year olds - but there is no one else around but you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go on then, tell me what is wrong with using your name? I notice you do not complain when other people use it? Pathetic


BTW, I don't care tuppence about your signature, but I would have thought that a person like you would not have to degrade yourself with obscenities, but hey - that is obviously YOU!

The really funny thing is that this is a wildly inaccurate translation of the original poem and there is no equivalent of the "f" word, or anything like it, in the corresponding line of original Turkish version.

Tim, if available would you please PM me the original lines. My interest is, that the f....word might be implied....but just curious. Translations are not as easy as people think and only someone of your credentials would know that.

Regards

Judge for yourself. These are the first two lines of verse four.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=18935

Thanks Tim. Its no wonder I did not recognise the original.

Not having read the Greek press at the time, doesnt Greek poetry in a similar/bellicose vein exist? I am talking about 19th-20th Century poetry.
I am not condoning the one published in the Hurriyet, but the Turkish Gov. must have felt it necessary to publish this. In times of 'peace' it is out of place.


Thanks anyway

[Nikitas]

A quick memory scan of patriotic poems does not bring forth any poems in similar vein or with so much hatred in them as the one posted by Oracle. The closest I can remember is one written around 1821, during the revolution, which says something like "ahead marches Nikitas (no relation) followed by Kolokotronis, and further back more Greeks with swords in their hands" , sounds innocuous but it was written about the siege of Tripolis where by all accounts the Greeks indulged in slaughter and pillage.

The most recent spate of patriotic songs was from the Greek-Italian conflict of 1940 and the general mood is one of satire and comedy, not blood thirst.

[zan]

Today I asked the people we met what they thought about unification and if they were all for it. Some are in Guzelyurt living in GC homes because their homes are in the South. The others are in Yesilirmak, my fathers village. what they said was that enclaves were out of the question for a start. I asked if they would be happy with a Greek government and us as a minority and they said " Eh! Biz neyik". They also said that they would never give up the guarantor of Turkey. This is the voice of those that have never left the island.

First you say you asked people what they thought of unification then ask them how they would feel with a Greek government and us as minority....(you love playing with words don't you?) I am glad the people gave you the correct answer by telling you WE ALREADY ARE MINORITY..
I bet you were not expecting that.

When in Girne and Lefcosa we went to eat at the Turkish cafe/restaurant, I could not help but notice the funny looks I got from these people that I had actually come to eat at their cafe when they heard my TC accent. I then started to notice that TCs did not eat at these places....Did I see it wrong? What is this utanmazlik? The TCs seem to like feeling superior.

No you did not see it wrong Zan...WE (your people) do not like eating in those places or mingling with those people...
I hope you got the message..
Maybe you should have your next holiday in Turkey...you definitely will feel much more at home there since you think your people in Cyprus are UTANMAZ

Sorry to see that I upset you iceman.......That is not what I wanted to do but to get your honest interpretation of what is going on. My comments about untanmazlik is the pure racism that I can see here. In the UK we eat in Greek, Turkish and Cypriot places. I have acknowledged the fact that there are a lot of Turks here but have explained the circumstances that have lead to this. You yourself have said that both ends of the stick are shitty for us so I am trying to find what you think is the solution. I understand that how you feel and I do not dismiss it gardas. I have the same reservations but what is the solution??? How long do you think we would have survived had Turkey not played the game along with us. I have told you about the 10,000 Makarios supporters that were on the hit list in 1974...What after that. Say they did not plan to kill us then how about deportations or the equivalent "population exchange"? This is the history of the whole region and the Greek/ Turkish conflict, so why would you think it would have been any different? I really don't understand. Do you have some information that we don't?

I have to say that once the initial funny looks were over in the Turkish Cafe I was treated with respect and then smiles came thick and fast so why such hostility???? I have done all I can to separate the normal GCs from those in power, why not the same for the Turks???? The world has many imperfections and so has both sides of Cyprus. why not fight each one as is needed and not blame one for the other although they are linked of course. Make me understand and stop getting so angry at my difference of opinion. I don't want to bulldoze you into anything so please don't do that to me. You blame me for not living in Cyprus but that is due to circumstance and not choice. I have sons half way through their education, do you want me to let Cyprus ruin their lives as well??? I will not allow that but I will also not allow you to tell me that I have no say in Cyprus. I am TC and Cyprus is my homeland. I have every right of protecting it and my roots with the acceptance that things change and the Cyprus of my fathers day is gone and the Cyprus of our day will too. I am not afraid of change but of my home becoming a Greek province only. As my new friend said....Eh! Biz neyik????

[Nikitas]

"I am TC and Cyprus is my homeland" says Zan.

So why deny part of it to other Cypriots? Why prefer to serve it to foreigners on a plate? You point out about hit lists etc, which proves the GCs fought against a takeover from Greece. Where is your spine to assert your Cypriotness and refuse to be made extinct in your own country?

[zan]

"I am TC and Cyprus is my homeland" says Zan.

So why deny part of it to other Cypriots? Why prefer to serve it to foreigners on a plate? You point out about hit lists etc, which proves the GCs fought against a takeover from Greece. Where is your spine to assert your Cypriotness and refuse to be made extinct in your own country?

I am denying nothing to anyone. You can come buy, live or visit here. All I am asking is that I run my own affairs. You also seem to forget that the only difference between the coupists and Makarios was time scale. You won the war against the coupists then why did you not reinstate the original Zurich agreement? was it perhaps you had the same goal?

Which Cypriotness are you referring to??? You know my feelings for the "RoC" in its present form.....When we have a fair and sensible agreement then I will support it as a Cypriot. I already have a shitty end of a stick so why risk more fresh stuff from the other end. Just like Halil answered to why he holds a "RoC" passport.... Circumstance and convenience was his answer in a nut shell. Same goes for the TRNC today. If the Embargoes had not been put into place to take away power from TCs then we could have demanded beeter from Turkey and directed our own future. You know want me to blame them for helping us to survive for what ever reason. You really have a cheek!!!

[Oracle]

The really funny thing is that this is a wildly inaccurate translation of the original poem and there is no equivalent of the "f" word, or anything like it, in the corresponding line of original Turkish version.

But the strange thing is you never said it was a wildly inaccurate translation at the time we debated the poem (nor has another English-speaking Turk subsequently).

You went as far as praising it for conveying the atmosphere well, and calling for genocide.

I understand literal translations are very difficult, especially with poems. So what you initially said matters, whether it is 100% accurate word for word or not!