Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

VP

We have just as much right to reject a plan we do not feel is right for us, just like you did with the AP.

You have a very valid point.

As does iceman in his statement about TC vs settler votes. Perhaps on that one only Cypriots who were over a certain age in 74 can vote. Then again those were the people that contributed to the current situation, the problem just snow balls.

I agree that some balance must be struck but Piratis does also make valid comments that TCs and Turkey normally share the same view on solving the Cyprus problem.

[humanist]

I doubt very much the majority of TC's share the same view as Turkey they are just caught between the rock and the hard place . I think the referendum was very clear. produce the same referendum again take out the Turkish presence on the Island and you see the numbers remain the same in the north and increasing in the south.

[Cem]

If the issue is really about the turkish settler's votes during a referandum, then why nobody -particularly the GCs- did not object to their voting for the Annan Plan ?
Just because of the obvious and certain "Oxi" that would come out from the South so that they didn't give a damn?
Then wouldn't be a double standard on behalf of the GC to overlook settler's voting last time but requesting their exclusion this time ?
Even though the GC had felt that AP would end up in thrashcan, they should have at least made their positions clearer at the outset.

[iceman]

If the issue is really about the turkish settler's votes during a referandum, then why nobody -particularly the GCs- did not object to their voting for the Annan Plan ?
Just because of the obvious and certain "Oxi" that would come out from the South so that they didn't give a damn?
Then wouldn't be a double standard on behalf of the GC to overlook settler's voting last time but requesting their exclusion this time ?
Even though the GC had felt that AP would end up in thrashcan, they should have at least made their positions clearer at the outset.

Its the TC's who should request the settlers to be excluded from voting not the GC's.
Do you as a TC (i am presuming you are a TC) want them to vote and if so,please explain why.

[Cem]

If the issue is really about the turkish settler's votes during a referandum, then why nobody -particularly the GCs- did not object to their voting for the Annan Plan ?
Just because of the obvious and certain "Oxi" that would come out from the South so that they didn't give a damn?
Then wouldn't be a double standard on behalf of the GC to overlook settler's voting last time but requesting their exclusion this time ?
Even though the GC had felt that AP would end up in thrashcan, they should have at least made their positions clearer at the outset.

Its the TC's who should request the settlers to be excluded from voting not the GC's.
Do you as a TC (i am presuming you are a TC) want them to vote and if so,please explain why.

Personally, I think only TC (TC = In the north + diaspora TC (abroad) + from either one TC parent (such as myself) + those married with a TC) should be allowed to vote.
Note that not all TCs despite some being genuine TCs hold RoC IDs.
On the other hand, I am afraid either you missed the essence of my questioning or you are deliberately doing so. The criteria for voting in the referandum should be a primary concern for both sides,i;e it is politically incorrect to leave this solely to the custody of one of the parties. As you know the settler's vote have been instrumental in affecting the votes in the north so far. However, to the best of my knowledge the GC did not make this an issue during AP referandum whereas they should have done so.
BTW, has your undersignature crept in there just because of my post ?

[iceman]

If the issue is really about the turkish settler's votes during a referandum, then why nobody -particularly the GCs- did not object to their voting for the Annan Plan ?
Just because of the obvious and certain "Oxi" that would come out from the South so that they didn't give a damn?
Then wouldn't be a double standard on behalf of the GC to overlook settler's voting last time but requesting their exclusion this time ?
Even though the GC had felt that AP would end up in thrashcan, they should have at least made their positions clearer at the outset.

Its the TC's who should request the settlers to be excluded from voting not the GC's.
Do you as a TC (i am presuming you are a TC) want them to vote and if so,please explain why.

Personally, I think only TC (TC = In the north + diaspora TC (abroad) + from either one TC parent (such as myself) + those married with a TC) should be allowed to vote.
Note that not all TCs despite some being genuine TCs hold RoC IDs.
On the other hand, I am afraid either you missed the essence of my questioning or you are deliberately doing so. The criteria for voting in the referandum should be a primary concern for both sides,i;e it is politically incorrect to leave this solely to the custody of one of the parties. As you know the settler's vote have been instrumental in affecting the votes in the north so far. However, to the best of my knowledge the GC did not make this an issue during AP referendum whereas they should have done so.
BTW, has your undersignature crept in there just because of my post ?

Please define TC..are you referring to anyone holding a TRNC ID today or those who were TC pre 74?
As you know not everyone holding a TRNC ID will be eligible for a citizenship after a solution.I have no problem with those with one TC parent or married to a TC because they will automatically be citizens of a unified Cyprus.We are in agreement on that one.
As to the "essence" of your question,i understand what you are saying.GC's should have objected to voting of settlers on Annan plan referendum but they did not make much of an objection..(could be because they were planning to reject it anyway)
My signature is not new and has nothing to do with you.

[Cem]

"Please define TC..are you referring to anyone holding a TRNC ID today or those who were TC pre 74? "
The latter group of course and their post-1974 offspring (regardless of their place of birth).
The TRNC ID unfortunately was given out like a candy to people who have got nothing with Cyprus thus it can not be used as valid ID during a potential referandum.

[humanist]

Cem, this is an interesting topic and only one that TC's can solve. Am a GC and I feel that the settler issue is purely your problem. We can cry as much as we want but at the end of the day your leadership makes the decision, remember we don't even exist as far as Turkey is concerned and am assuming some of your parliamentarians. Ask any GC and they'll say no settler to remain on Cyprus or vote. But who lsitens. Am afraid you can't blame GC's for the one.

As a GC I find it very starnge that the settler population exceeds the TC population and I think any number of settlers who remain should not exceed the TC population which I believe is a very low number. The rest is up to TC's.

[Kikapu]

In order to get the best results in the north for the True TC's, is to stipulate in the referendum to those who will be effected from the 50,000 the RoC has already accepted to become Cypriots citizens, is to offer the settlers a sum of money to go back to Turkey and promise to help Turkey to get into the EU, so that one day all settlers will become Europeans through Turkey's entry into the EU. You will find all those settlers with a "fake" TC citizenship's will sell out the rest of the settlers and vote YES in the referendum, assuming the proposals are Fair and Just and is not another Racist, Undemocratic, Human Rights violating type of Confederation like Annan Plan was in 2004, but a True Democracy and True Federation, as well as Turkish Troops leaving and the end of Guarantorship by Turkey or else Christofias will not accept any referendum to be put for a vote and get a NO answer from the GC's. He is not going to give the TC's a "Bragging Rights Victory" by putting a bad referendum to be voted on and get a NO vote.

[Cem]

"is to offer the settlers a sum of money to go back to Turkey"..

And who is going to do that ? TRNC govt or Turkey or EU ?..
TRNC economy is in ruins..the Soyer Mafia is not likely to pay the monthly salaries of public servants. On the other hand, Turkey badly needs 52$ billion to pay off her debts..

"and promise to help Turkey to get into the EU".
Identical question as above.. Who will make this promise ? The RoC which is nothing but a tiny bit of drop in the E.U ocean ? Or Greece which is one of the less important members of EU ?

"You will find all those settlers with a "fake" TC citizenship's will sell out the rest of the settlers and vote YES in the referendum".
They already did this during AP referandum because their motherland govt instructed them so. Now, if this time motherland instructs them to vote the opposite way, they will certainly do so in spite of a fair and mutually agreeable solution between GC and TC.

I suppose every average person in RoC knows that regardless of whatever Turkey will do , she can never be a member of E.U. The carpet-salesman type of politician Erdogan knows this as well.