Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

I think you know the answer to both questions as you are ex military yourself. They would stand fast, turn away from both sides and await intructions from Whitehall.
In the meantime all hell would break loose and a ceasefire would be brokered, but yet again the damage would have been done.

So the CNG will not be allowed to transit and be forced to move further north and risk severe casualties.

I am sure that instructions would be at hand very quickly in such a scenario. What do you think those instructions might be? Will you impede our defences by closing your base?

[Magnus]

While I completely agree that the British bases should be returned to Cyprus, I wonder if an immediate demand for Britain to remove them might not cause more trouble.

For example, what if Britain decides not to comply? Wouldn't this open up more political problems for the Cypriot government to deal with (especially in the EU) when it might be best to concentrate efforts on dealing with the 'TRNC' and Turkey first?

What if it just pushes Britain and Turkey even closer together? Cyprus would be left with two enemies occupying the island instead of one enemy and one 'theoretical' ally as in the current situation.

It might be more prudent to play nice with Britain until the Cyprus Problem can be resolved. After all, a tactical threat is only a threat when you're at war.

After a solution to the Cyprus Problem then it would be easier to get Britain to leave as they would have no grounds to remain if the guarantor powers are removed.

I stand to be corrected on this one though, I can't entirely determine the balance between military and political objectives in this case. There are too many uncertain variables.

[Paphitis]

Paphitis,

Re the scenarios you pointed out, there is the precedent of the 1974 clash where the British would allow National Guardsmen to use the SBA territory only if they surrendered their weapons first. No need for further comment.

I do not know what to say.

I can not believe that we continue to allow their presence in Cyprus.

[purdey]

From a scenario point of view I fear that would happen.
I am unaware of any scenario been played out by the British in relation to any movement of the Turkish army, I would like to think that this time they would co-operate with the defending forces.

[Paphitis]

While I completely agree that the British bases should be returned to Cyprus, I wonder if an immediate demand for Britain to remove them might not cause more trouble.

For example, what if Britain decides not to comply? Wouldn't this open up more political problems for the Cypriot government to deal with (especially in the EU) when it might be best to concentrate efforts on dealing with the 'TRNC' and Turkey first?

What if it just pushes Britain and Turkey even closer together? Cyprus would be left with two enemies occupying the island instead of one enemy and one 'theoretical' ally as in the current situation.

It might be more prudent to play nice with Britain until the Cyprus Problem can be resolved. After all, a tactical threat is only a threat when you're at war.

After a solution to the Cyprus Problem then it would be easier to get Britain to leave as they would have no grounds to remain if the guarantor powers are removed.

I stand to be corrected on this one though, I can't entirely determine the balance between military and political objectives in this case. There are too many uncertain variables.

The British should have the decency to offer some assistance to Cyprus as far as defence and security is concerned. This is my issue.

If they do this, then I would not be objecting to their presence right now, or post solution.

[Magnus]

The British should have the decency to offer some assistance to Cyprus as far as defence and security is concerned. This is my issue.

If they do this, then I would not be objecting to their presence right now, or post solution.

Do you think there is a possibilty that this might happen in the near future? Maybe if President Christofias and Gordon Brown were to get together and follow-up on their previous agreement then there could be more co-operation between Britain and Cyprus in this respect.

Unfortunately I fear that Christofias is unable to make further approaches to Britain while the negotiations with Talat are on-going.

The other thing to consider is that maybe if such an approach was made, Britain might see it as some sort of invitation to remain on the island forever.

[miltiades]

Throughout history super powers have primarily targeted their activities not for the benefit of those nations that they either ruled or as in the case of Cyprus , have a military presence .
However the British government ought to be made aware in very clear terms that any activities by their military bases in Cyprus that are considered by the RoC as " damaging " to the security of the island must seize forthwith .
Having the bases in Cyprus as "sovereign areas " must also be questioned in view of the fact that such military facilities were included in the Zurich "agreement which also included Britain as one of the guarantors of Cyprus's independence and territorial integrity !!!
I have always supported the continuation of the existence of the British military bases in Cyprus that provide not only employment to locals but also provide as I understand it a respectable amount to our finances , however should the operation of the bases was to be proven as detrimental to the interests of Cyprus then I shall be the first to demand the withdrawal of the bases. The RoC ought to investigate seriously any misdemeanours by the British military bases .

How do the bases provide a respectable amount to our finances?

I take it that they purchase some, if not all , of their food , water etc from within Cyprus , as well as the expenditure of the British forces in Cyprus.
It is a well known fact that the British forces in Cyprus also spend quite a bit of their money in local restaurants bars and shops. There is no doubt that financially , and forgetting the fact that if the bases were disbanded the land would be worth millions, Cyprus benefits financially .

This is no argument against their undermining of our nation and providing the Turkish Army with a distinct strategic advantage in the east.

Steady on now , don't take my posts out of context .The following is what I said regarding the bases.

""""""""Throughout history super powers have primarily targeted their activities not for the benefit of those nations that they either ruled or as in the case of Cyprus , have a military presence .
However the British government ought to be made aware in very clear terms that any activities by their military bases in Cyprus that are considered by the RoC as " damaging " to the security of the island must seize forthwith .
Having the bases in Cyprus as "sovereign areas " must also be questioned in view of the fact that such military facilities were included in the Zurich agreement which also included Britain as one of the guarantors of Cyprus's independence and territorial integrity !!!
I have always supported the continuation of the existence of the British military bases in Cyprus that provide not only employment to locals but also provide as I understand it a respectable amount to our finances , however should the operation of the bases was to be proven as detrimental to the interests of Cyprus then I shall be the first to demand the withdrawal of the bases. The RoC ought to investigate seriously any misdemeanours by the British military bases ."""""

[Oracle]

Having the Bases is an obstacle to finding a solution to the Cyprus problem...

Britain may fear a re-unified Cyprus would have more clout to remove them so clearly they do not want to see resolution ...

Also without having to constantly expend efforts with Turkey, Cyprus would have more time to pursue removal of the SBA. So again UK would not want us to kick out the Turks.

Therefore, if we concentrated on removing the SBAs first .....then they would have no reason to impede our progress with finding a solution any longer.

They may even have to woo us all over again, to be allowed some surveillance.

[ttoli]

Having the Bases is an obstacle to finding a solution to the Cyprus problem...

Britain may fear a re-unified Cyprus would have more clout to remove them so clearly they do not want to see resolution ...

Also without having to constantly expend efforts with Turkey, Cyprus would have more time to pursue removal of the SBA. So again UK would not want us to kick out the Turks.

Therefore, if we concentrated on removing the SBAs first .....then they would have no reason to impede our progress with finding a solution any longer.

They may even have to woo us all over again, to be allowed some surveillance.

So in short you fully epect the TC's to trust you once the SBA's are closed down and the Turkish Troops have withdrawn?, besides Cyprus is in such an important stratigic location, can you honestly see them closing?

[Magnus]

So in short you fully epect the TC's to trust you once the SBA's are closed down and the Turkish Troops have withdrawn?, besides Cyprus is in such an important stratigic location, can you honestly see them closing?

Does this mean that you consider the British bases as some sort of protection for TCs?

While the British may be reluctant to give up their bases, there may come a time when they don't have the option to remain. If their rights as a guarantor are removed then they have no justification to remain.

Personally, if there have to be foreign armies on Cyprus, I'd rather have some sort of joint EU forces in place. This would serve the interests of the EU rather than those of a single country.