Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

Bananiot,

OK the GC side alienated the TCs by unjustified adherence to Enosis. Indisputably the GCs kicked out TCs from the government of the Republic in 1963. But in all this thing we call the Cyprus problem you regard Turkey as a passive factor? You don't see the plan put in plce since the 50s to stake claims and bring about what today they call the "new realities"?

People who were present at critical situations and who kept detailed notes, like Anthos Lycavgis, report on how both "motherlands" conspired against the independence of Cyprus. The difference is that one tried and failed and the other one managed to succeed. Accepting the partial loss of territory and the total loss of independence envisaged by Turkey for the future is not the way to go. And if you have any doubts that this is what is being planned refer to Erdogan's most recent speech which overturned the joint Talat-Christofias communique. The two Cypriot leaders were talking of one sovereignty, one nationality etc, and Erdogan reminded us that TCs will gain their sovereignty and that the new situation will arise from the implementation of the virgin birth principle.

If we cannot perceive the dangers represented by the "virgin birth" idea we deserve what we get.

[Bananiot]

Now I get it DT, plain simple jealousy. That is what it is all about! You remind me of mainland Greeks who scorn the public service but their hidden dream is to get their kids in it.

Are these red lines? You surprise me DT? These are simple issues. Of course I support rotating presidency, why shouldn’t I? Turkey’s guarantees? Of course not, but I will not allow this to become a stumbling block if we are near solution, respecting the sensitivities of the Turkish Cypriots. With good will something can always be arranged, such as, setting a time limit after which the EU can take over. The virgin birth story is sheer fantasy and it is used by the Papadopoulos supporters to stall the new initiative. There are many ways round this.

P.S. Now I am off to the sea, despite a mid summer’s horrible cold. Care to join me?

[Oracle]

That explains the increased phlegm and bile ....

[Nikitas]

Re Bananiot, are you totally nuts! The "virgin birth principle" was repeated and stressed by Erdogan during his visit to the north three days ago. Are you implying that Erdogan is a Papadopoulos supporter?

Your cold must be affecting your thinking.

[Bananiot]

Well, Erdogan and the deep state of Turkey may want us to back down and not go to talks. Hence if we heed their words (spoken at mass rallies) we should rest the initiative, that Papadopoulos scorns, and fall back to the impass of his five year period. I do not think Christofias will do them the favour. We shall see come next Friday, anyway.

[Nikitas]

Cynical old me I see the following happening- Christofias will try his damndest to make the talks work, the Turks will up the ante (yet again, so what is new!) and will demand "virgin birth" and separate sovereignty, end game is that we are faced with only one choice, accept partition. TCs will cite their dependence on Turkey and will accept whatever they are told.

I hope I am wrong. I think not, which brings me back to my favorite chant- territory, territory, territory. The rest is hot air.

[Bananiot]

Well, under Papadopoulos the international community blamed us for the lack of progress and in fact nobody spoke about occupation but only about lifting the economic embargo. This was because we were the intransigent side, always looking for ways to prevent progress (no tight time limits, no arbitration, good preparation etc etc)

This time round Christofias has made it clear that he is after solution and Talat has been productive too. The international community is watching closely and will respond to unchartered claims by any side. The basis for solution has been agreed (BBF with single sovereignty, single citizenship, single international representation, equality of the two communities) and any deviation will be to the detriment of the side that produces it on the negotiating table. At best we will get the solution, at worst, we can get Turkey to shoulder the blame for failure, provided they insist on unreasonable positions.

I cannot understand your territory shouts. Perhaps I did not read your earlier posts on this. Are you saying that even partition can be an option if the division of territory is fair?

[Paphitis]

Well, under Papadopoulos the international community blamed us for the lack of progress and in fact nobody spoke about occupation but only about lifting the economic embargo. This was because we were the intransigent side, always looking for ways to prevent progress (no tight time limits, no arbitration, good preparation etc etc)

The above statement is actually quite correct. If Tassos Papadopoulos was re-elected, Cyprus would be marching towards permanent partition, as the "trnc" would, in all probability have achieved an upgraded status. Tassos was responsible for international opinion turning it's back on RoC and siding with the "trnc".

Tassos should only be congratulated for 1 thing. His statesmanship for leading our country away from the Annan Plan, which would have been the total destruction of Cyprus as a whole.

This time round Christofias has made it clear that he is after solution and Talat has been productive too. The international community is watching closely and will respond to unchartered claims by any side. The basis for solution has been agreed (BBF with single sovereignty, single citizenship, single international representation, equality of the two communities) and any deviation will be to the detriment of the side that produces it on the negotiating table.

President Christofias has been very constructive and at the very least has turned around world opinion and support for the RoC. Talat however, has not been productive at all. Talat has contradicted himself many times. He is now talking about a Virgin Birth solution, something which will never be accepted by President X for obvious reasons.

A basis for solution has definitely not been agreed to. BBF with single sovereignty, single citizenship, single representation and equality of the 2 Federated states (equality of the 2 communities has never been mentioned), has only been agreed to "in principle" which is basically another meaningless statement of a theoretical solution, as it is apparent, that the Turks have already deviated from this as can be deduced from the strong rhetoric emanating from Both Erdogan, Talat and the deep state.

Basically, no progress has been made due to Turkey's recalcitrance and it's deep desire for permanent partition as it's ultimate goal.

At best we will get the solution, at worst, we can get Turkey to shoulder the blame for failure, provided they insist on unreasonable positions.

The above is exactly the political strategy followed by the Cristofias Government.

I cannot understand your territory shouts. Perhaps I did not read your earlier posts on this. Are you saying that even partition can be an option if the division of territory is fair?

Permanent partition is becoming the preferred option for many, as long as the Territory distribution is in accordance with a fair 82-18 distribution.

[Simon]

Paphitis wrote:

[quote]Permanent partition is becoming the preferred option for many, as long as the Territory distribution is in accordance with a fair 82-18 distribution.[/quote]t


If we do not get TRUE reunification, then the above is the next best option in my opinion.

[Bananiot]

I'll be damned. This is exactly what Denktash was after throughout his life. Now we have Greek Cypriots who admit to seing things through his eyes.

We will never accept partition, even if they gave us 90% of territory. Partition will eventually bring about the total destruction of Cyprus. I am really upset you cannot see this.