Cyprus-Forum.com

[Murataga]

If you ask my mother in law who was a doctor during the invasion she'll also tell you how many abortions she carried out of young girls after the invasion. Those naughty little minxes, having summer romances with those handsome turkish soldiers while their father was getting shot. tsk tsk tsk

Do me a favor and ask her how batallions and regimets of "handsome" Greek soldiers were firing roses and magnolias from their Czech machine guns to innocent TC civilians when no Turkish unit was on the island. Ask her about the innocent TC kids, women and elderly who had their guts sticking out she stitched up when no Turkish soldier was on the island and ask her how many TC kids, women and elderly she helped to dig out of the mass graves of Murataga, Sandallar, Taskent and etc afterwards...? Ask her how medicine cures TC kids` lives that were ruined and are being ruined due to lack of proper education and devastating economic conditions because their fathers refused and still refuse to sell out their future to GC demands? Ask her how many babies and elderly she treated that went ill and died for living years in tents with no running water, without proper medicine and without decent food? Ask her how she plans to cure generations of my peoples` suffering of death, embargo, poverty and unemployment because they refused and still refuse to yield on their rights while you fart through silk in the South.

What we're playing poker tragedy..As we say in Greek En eshis Ypothesi!

I am not playing anything. You are the one that started first with body parts and lead on with raped girls. I really do not know and care what you call it in Greek, but I know I would call it "pathetic" in English.

You lose hands down simply on numbers in this sick little game of yours.

I doubt it. Let me know when you have a precise number of GC casualties after GC "National Guard" and pro/anti-Makarios fighting deaths.

I CALL all the poor souls you listed above and raise them with one of your napalm bombs landing on the Nicosia General Hospital...I have pictures if you like.

If you decide to go there let me know for I have an album of my own. Perhaps your mother in-law is also in it pulling out bullets from the dead bodies of 8 year olds hiding inside bathtubs for their life.

DOes this make you feel better?

What makes me feel better is exploiting hideous attempts that try to equate the whole of my peoples` 45 year long (and ongoing) devastation on all aspects of life by your people to a portion of your peoples` well-compensated 2 hour drive to the South.

[Oracle]

Exaggeration serves nothing but to seal the reality of Turkish known atrocities and how polarised they are with genuine reports of the thousands of GCs killed by Turks.

Why are these atrocities on a scale extolled by TCs such as Muratage, not recorded by others, but keep coming out from Turkish sources.

The actual data are nothing like the horror stories Murataga weaves and serves to remind us of the way the "winners" try to change the history.

We had the fiasco of some made up photo by VP not long ago .. so we know Murataga can bring up "evidence" . But as to its worth and authenticity, thanks to the likes of VP, I am afraid we have learnt to be most doubtful.

[Nikitas]

Murat,

You had plenty of thugs of your own, active during the EXACT same time as the massacres of Sandalaris and Maratha. Read Sevgul Uludag on the Afania massacre which was going on the same date and time. The coincidence is interesting since neither side can claim that their actions were in response to those of the other side. They could not have known what was going on. They were each acting of their own initiative. And in both cases it was a strictly Cypriots only affair, both killers and victims were Cypriots as the mainlanders looked on.

There are murderers walking free, and in many cases rewarded with official appointments, on both sides.

[Piratis]

Do me a favor and ask her how batallions and regimets of "handsome" Greek soldiers were firing roses and magnolias from their Czech machine guns to innocent TC civilians when no Turkish unit was on the island. Ask her about the innocent TC kids, women and elderly who had their guts sticking out she stitched up when no Turkish soldier was on the island and ask her how many TC kids, women and elderly she helped to dig out of the mass graves of Murataga, Sandallar, Taskent and etc afterwards...? Ask her how medicine cures TC kids` lives that were ruined and are being ruined due to lack of proper education and devastating economic conditions because their fathers refused and still refuse to sell out their future to GC demands? Ask her how many babies and elderly she treated that went ill and died for living years in tents with no running water, without proper medicine and without decent food? Ask her how she plans to cure generations of my peoples` suffering of death, embargo, poverty and unemployment because they refused and still refuse to yield on their rights while you fart through silk in the South.

I ask, and the answer is that all of the above were consequences to your crimes against us.

For example, you talk about the "mass graves of Murataga, Sandallar" etc. Should I remind you that those events happened after you started your attack against us on the 20th of July 1974, killing 1000s of innocent people, and raping under age girls? Should I also remind you that in those events you lost about 200 people, while we lost several 1000s??

So: You started it, and you kill 1000s. We defend ourselves, and causing to you about 200 victims. And from this you conclude that it is our fault????

ALL the cases are like this. In ALL cases, be it 1571, 1821, 1958, 1974, you are ALWAYS the ones who started the conflicts with the aim to deny to the Cypriot people their freedom and self-determination. And then when you also had casualties and consequences from your crimes you came here to cry and pretend to be the victim, when in fact you are the aggressors and the ones who started the bloodshed.

[Bananiot]

DT, with all due respect you have no idea of how thw worls is run. First of all though, I was only 11 when the intercommunal strife started and you are hardly in a position to blame my generation. However, if you really need to blame a generation you can go ahead and blame the generation of Papadopoulos, Lissarides, Yiorgadjis who were the warlords at the time, all sporting private armies that had a permanent order. Kill as many Turkish Cypriots as you can for they are preventing the union of Cyprus with our motherland.

Then. I suppose that if you were a German skinhead (nationalist) you would be calling Poland to give back to Germany places like Gdansk and Prussia at large, for the criminal mistakes were made by Hitler and the present Germans had nothing to do with 1940. Perhaps you would be calling France to hand over Strassburg, if you were Le Pen but as you probably know, these extreme nationalist have not even began to think like you.

I know, it is a cruel world, but this is how it works.

[Kifeas]

My rights, your right ... just words! In this island, who cared about the rights of the ordinary Turkish Cypriots that were seen as second and third class citizens after 1960? Who cared about the rights of Turkish Cypriots that were forced into enclaves in 1963 when our EOKA boys were boasting of the number of kills they made?

When our head is on the chopping block we remember our rights. Well, nobody is listening and if we want to salvage anything this can be done only through talks, since we all agree that war is not an option.

Thanks for providing the Vaseline, Bananiot, but “no,” we won't use any, neither will we "seat" for what you want us to!

Many people cared for the above, including the elected president of the country, that is why in 1968, and only four (4) years after the intercommunal violence broke out, he ordered the removal of all barriers outside the TC enclaves so that TCs would be able to move out, travel, work and visit and use their properties outside the enclaves. Some had chosen to make use of this opportunity, but, as it has been documented by the UN too, the vast majority had chosen to follow their TMT "leadership's" taxim motivated directives to remain prisoners in the places in which their leadership had also contributed for them to be locked in! This fact has also been documented by the UN, in their reports.

Furthermore, not a single TC had been killed or touched by a GC, from 1968 until 1974 that they were free to move around Cyprus and among the GCs; neither any of their properties had been estranged from them or had been usurped by the GC side or the government! Furthermore, the GC side accepted that a way for their return back into the government of the RoC must be found, that is why the GC elected leader gave instructions to Clerides to begin negotiations with their leader Denktash on this basis. Trying to make a comparison and draw equalising analogies between how the GC side behaved before 1974, and how the TC side and Turkey behaved after 1974, is at least a ridiculous attempt on your behalf, and a very provocative one I may add!

[Viewpoint]

My rights, your right ... just words! In this island, who cared about the rights of the ordinary Turkish Cypriots that were seen as second and third class citizens after 1960? Who cared about the rights of Turkish Cypriots that were forced into enclaves in 1963 when our EOKA boys were boasting of the number of kills they made?

When our head is on the chopping block we remember our rights. Well, nobody is listening and if we want to salvage anything this can be done only through talks, since we all agree that war is not an option.

Thanks for providing the Vaseline, Bananiot, but “no,” we won't use any, neither will we "seat" for what you want us to!

Many people cared for the above, including the elected president of the country, that is why in 1968, and only four (4) years after the intercommunal violence broke out, he ordered the removal of all barriers outside the TC enclaves so that TCs would be able to move out, travel, work and visit and use their properties outside the enclaves. Some had chosen to make use of this opportunity, but, as it has been documented by the UN too, the vast majority had chosen to follow their TMT "leadership's" taxim motivated directives to remain prisoners in the places in which their leadership had also contributed for them to be locked in! This fact has also been documented by the UN, in their reports.

Furthermore, not a single TC had been killed or touched by a GC, from 1968 until 1974 that they were free to move around Cyprus and among the GCs; neither any of their properties had been estranged from them or had been usurped by the GC side or the government! Furthermore, the GC side accepted that a way for their return back into the government of the RoC must be found, that is why the GC elected leader gave instructions to Clerides to begin negotiations with their leader Denktash on this basis. Trying to make a comparison and draw equalising analogies between how the GC side behaved before 1974, and how the TC side and Turkey behaved after 1974, is at least a ridiculous attempt on your behalf, and a very provocative one I may add!

My father in law is over 70 and he remembers those times and he says you are lieing, there was systmatic discrimination and persecution of TCs et you still choose to ignore this fact which is contributory to the mistrust we feel today.

[Piratis]

Then. I suppose that if you were a German skinhead (nationalist) you would be calling Poland to give back to Germany places like Gdansk and Prussia at large, for the criminal mistakes were made by Hitler and the present Germans had nothing to do with 1940. Perhaps you would be calling France to hand over Strassburg, if you were Le Pen but as you probably know, these extreme nationalist have not even began to think like you.

In the case of Germany the Germans lost those areas because they were the ones who invaded others and initiated the wars. In the wars which the Germans started they also had many millions of casulties.

Imagine if some German now comes and presents only their own losses during the wars they started and claim that they were the victims! This is what the Turks/TCs are doing.

Nobody denies that they also had casualties and they also suffered, like nobody denies that the Germans had casualties and that they suffered.

The point here is that it is the Germans (and in the case of Cyprus the Turks) who started the conflicts by invading others and trying to use force to deny to the people their freedom and self-determination. In fact the Germans used the exact same excuse as the Turks when they invaded Czechoslovakia.

If somebody could use the past as an excuse to demand the punishment of the invadors, those would be us, not the Turks or TCs!! But we do not have any such demands because we do not wish to continue the circle of blood and the human rights violations.

What we want is to finally be allowed to rule our own island in a democratic way, with human rights for all Cypriot citizens without any racist discriminations. As a minority the TCs can have additional minority and other rights that will ensure their proportional and effective participation in the goverment and all levels of the society, but they can not demand gains on the loss of our rights and our lands. Not only they do not have the right to demand such things, but even if we were blackmailed and forced to accept such unfair terms it is certain that we would sooner or later revolt against our oppressors and a new round of bloodshed would start.

[halil]

My rights, your right ... just words! In this island, who cared about the rights of the ordinary Turkish Cypriots that were seen as second and third class citizens after 1960? Who cared about the rights of Turkish Cypriots that were forced into enclaves in 1963 when our EOKA boys were boasting of the number of kills they made?

When our head is on the chopping block we remember our rights. Well, nobody is listening and if we want to salvage anything this can be done only through talks, since we all agree that war is not an option.

Thanks for providing the Vaseline, Bananiot, but “no,” we won't use any, neither will we "seat" for what you want us to!

Many people cared for the above, including the elected president of the country, that is why in 1968, and only four (4) years after the intercommunal violence broke out, he ordered the removal of all barriers outside the TC enclaves so that TCs would be able to move out, travel, work and visit and use their properties outside the enclaves. Some had chosen to make use of this opportunity, but, as it has been documented by the UN too, the vast majority had chosen to follow their TMT "leadership's" taxim motivated directives to remain prisoners in the places in which their leadership had also contributed for them to be locked in! This fact has also been documented by the UN, in their reports.

Furthermore, not a single TC had been killed or touched by a GC, from 1968 until 1974 that they were free to move around Cyprus and among the GCs; neither any of their properties had been estranged from them or had been usurped by the GC side or the government! Furthermore, the GC side accepted that a way for their return back into the government of the RoC must be found, that is why the GC elected leader gave instructions to Clerides to begin negotiations with their leader Denktash on this basis. Trying to make a comparison and draw equalising analogies between how the GC side behaved before 1974, and how the TC side and Turkey behaved after 1974, is at least a ridiculous attempt on your behalf, and a very provocative one I may add!

ok. for a while i excepted your words .
tell me than suddenly what happened at 15th july 1974 and everything reverse back again .
Why those people they get their guns in their hands . They were all GC's militia man started fighting with eachother .

İf they don't have something behind their brain they should'nt show it again .They must have something in their brains and things are started again . There was no Turkey up to 20 July .
There was a Enosis idea at someones brain .....
what we are having now is the results of the 15 july .
as you are saying talks were started . what was the aim of the 15th july ?

to find the right way first we must learn to talk truth .

ok .Turkey should finished her job at 74 and restore security put the sides on the table and finished the solution of the Cyprus problem and go back .which they didn't .

[Bananiot]

In effect, Piratis, you are saying that the problem started in 1974. This is a fallacy and most people know this by now and it beats me as to why you choose to ignore this reality.

Kifeas talks about vaseline quite often lately but I wonder if he knows that vaseline is one of the most useful products ever created with a diversity of uses. Of course, a corrupt mind associates only with one particular use of vaseline whilst ignoring the many blissful faculties of petroleum jelly.

Kifeas also associates barbarity only with killings. There are many ways to manifest barbarity, one being to stop all cars that go to Paphos, let's say, and search (see touch up) all women for hidden guns. Of course this could never happen in this island of saints (we have more saints, by the way, than common mortal bananiots) but Kifeas has been blinded by nationalism and has become a lost case, I am afraid.

I have said many times that our actions after 1963 led the ordinary Turkish Cypriots seek for comfort and security in the embrace of TMT and Turkey. Even the left, which was a formidable force, became disenchanted with AKEL (enosis and only enosis) and sought refuge in the enclaves. PEO lost all its Turkish Cypriot members because AKEL hid under the robes of Makarios and sang to the enosis tune side by side with the corrupt right. Kavazoglu was mocked by AKEL for trying hard to effect a change in AKEL's policy, to revert back to the patriotic "national independence". He was sent to his death by the very same people that honour him today. They did not pull the trigger but they did not protect him and made him an easy target for TMT