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Small Step for a Man ... Giant Leap for Mankind!

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Postby zan » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:06 am

Oracle wrote:
zan wrote:
Oracle wrote:
zan wrote:My apologies and anger at wasting an hour watching a pointless documentary on "Space wars"...... :evil: :evil: :evil:


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 359AAR0ihp


OK ... So once it fires, there will be nothing to slow the bullet down, it will just keep going into deep space, until it collides with an object ... right? :?

Whereas on Earth it has a limited trajectory!
(caused by friction and gravity)


How many more hits do you need to fill the quota for this month then Stella???? :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:


I have got the bit between the teeth with this bullet puzzle ... and it is not often we spout science on here ... so I am not letting go until I get a satisfactory answer ... maybe I should Google too :( (defeatist!)


From what I hear, the bit and your teeth are in the glass of water next to your bed :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Oracle » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:10 am

zan wrote:
Oracle wrote:
zan wrote:
Oracle wrote:
zan wrote:My apologies and anger at wasting an hour watching a pointless documentary on "Space wars"...... :evil: :evil: :evil:


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 359AAR0ihp


OK ... So once it fires, there will be nothing to slow the bullet down, it will just keep going into deep space, until it collides with an object ... right? :?

Whereas on Earth it has a limited trajectory!
(caused by friction and gravity)


How many more hits do you need to fill the quota for this month then Stella???? :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:


I have got the bit between the teeth with this bullet puzzle ... and it is not often we spout science on here ... so I am not letting go until I get a satisfactory answer ... maybe I should Google too :( (defeatist!)


From what I hear, the bit and your teeth are in the glass of water next to your bed :lol: :lol: :lol:


I predicted that response :roll: ... hence deleted the quote, if you have noticed now (but you're too nifty!).

Zan welcome back :wink: .... predictable as ever, ye olde familiar forumer! :lol:

Goodnight dear.
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Re: Small Step for a Man ... Giant Leap for Mankind!

Postby Novus » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:11 am

Oracle wrote:
Interesting proposition. :D

But the photons would not be bombarding the speeding bullet uni-directionally.

Since the bullet cannot travel faster than the speed of light ... it will have multi-directional but random collisions from photons.

Photons are discrete electromagnetic waves (last time I looked in a physics book anyway :? ) which would transmit energy to said traversing bullet.

The actions of the photons, would cancel each other out in terms of any force effects ... save for transferring the energy which would serve to make the bullet energised (speed up even .. I cannot do the maths ... but I will have a go .... :shock: )
Well, I assume it would depend on which direction the bullet was fired. If it was fired towards the center of the universe then I assume the greater number of red shift (higer speed photons) photons would have just a little more energy that the blue shift photons and may slow the bullet to a stop befor it reaches the center.
If it is fired twoards the end of the universe, then assuming the universe will expand untill matter and energy fall apart, then I think it is true the bullet would never stop....and may even speed up.

By the way, I am not sure about this but I don't think there is a limit or endpoint to gravity, but after a certain distance it becomes infinitesimally minute. In other words I think we are affected by Pluto's gravity, but it is so minute the only way to measure it is to see the wobble in the sun's travel through the galaxy.
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Postby zan » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:20 am

Oracle wrote:
zan wrote:
Oracle wrote:
zan wrote:
Oracle wrote:
zan wrote:My apologies and anger at wasting an hour watching a pointless documentary on "Space wars"...... :evil: :evil: :evil:


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 359AAR0ihp


OK ... So once it fires, there will be nothing to slow the bullet down, it will just keep going into deep space, until it collides with an object ... right? :?

Whereas on Earth it has a limited trajectory!
(caused by friction and gravity)


How many more hits do you need to fill the quota for this month then Stella???? :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:


I have got the bit between the teeth with this bullet puzzle ... and it is not often we spout science on here ... so I am not letting go until I get a satisfactory answer ... maybe I should Google too :( (defeatist!)


From what I hear, the bit and your teeth are in the glass of water next to your bed :lol: :lol: :lol:


I predicted that response :roll: ... hence deleted the quote, if you have noticed now (but you're too nifty!).

Zan welcome back :wink: .... predictable as ever, ye olde familiar forumer! :lol:

Goodnight dear.


Too many photons hitting the grey matter and proving that it has slowed you down and not energised you into working faster I am afraid......Talk about killing two birds with one stone...heheheheheheeee :lol:
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Postby Magnus » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:23 am

Who needs a normal gun in space anyway? If it was me, I'd just take my trusty ray-gun:

Image

Take me to your leader! :lol: :lol:
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Re: Small Step for a Man ... Giant Leap for Mankind!

Postby zan » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:24 am

Novus wrote:
Oracle wrote:
Interesting proposition. :D

But the photons would not be bombarding the speeding bullet uni-directionally.

Since the bullet cannot travel faster than the speed of light ... it will have multi-directional but random collisions from photons.

Photons are discrete electromagnetic waves (last time I looked in a physics book anyway :? ) which would transmit energy to said traversing bullet.

The actions of the photons, would cancel each other out in terms of any force effects ... save for transferring the energy which would serve to make the bullet energised (speed up even .. I cannot do the maths ... but I will have a go .... :shock: )
Well, I assume it would depend on which direction the bullet was fired. If it was fired towards the center of the universe then I assume the greater number of red shift (higer speed photons) photons would have just a little more energy that the blue shift photons and may slow the bullet to a stop befor it reaches the center.
If it is fired twoards the end of the universe, then assuming the universe will expand untill matter and energy fall apart, then I think it is true the bullet would never stop....and may even speed up.

By the way, I am not sure about this but I don't think there is a limit or endpoint to gravity, but after a certain distance it becomes infinitesimally minute. In other words I think we are affected by Pluto's gravity, but it is so minute the only way to measure it is to see the wobble in the sun's travel through the galaxy.


What about the massive gravitational pull of a black hole in the middle of every galaxy??????
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Postby zan » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:25 am

Magnus wrote:Who needs a normal gun in space anyway? If it was me, I'd just take my trusty ray-gun:

Image

Take me to your leader! :lol: :lol:

I think you have got it set to stun..... :lol:
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Re: Small Step for a Man ... Giant Leap for Mankind!

Postby Novus » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:36 am

zan wrote:
What about the massive gravitational pull of a black hole in the middle of every galaxy??????
Good point. If there is one at the center, then it is still possible the bullet's path may be stopped by the photons and the gravitational pull of the BH would be offset or even reversed by the photons because it is still too far away for the gravity to have enough "pull".
After all, if photons are still heading way from the BH, then they are already far enough away to begin with to avoid the gravitational pull IMO.

Also it would depend on the BH's oreintation. Black Holes are now believed to eject a stream of high energy from their poles and if a bullet was heading directly towards a pole, then it's progression may be stopped even sooner.
Last edited by Novus on Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Small Step for a Man ... Giant Leap for Mankind!

Postby Oracle » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:36 am

Oracle wrote:
Interesting proposition. :D

But the photons would not be bombarding the speeding bullet uni-directionally.

Since the bullet cannot travel faster than the speed of light ... it will have multi-directional but random collisions from photons.

Photons are discrete electromagnetic waves (last time I looked in a physics book anyway :? ) which would transmit energy to said traversing bullet.

The actions of the photons, would cancel each other out in terms of any force effects ... save for transferring the energy which would serve to make the bullet energised (speed up even .. I cannot do the maths ... but I will have a go .... :shock: )


Novus wrote:Well, I assume it would depend on which direction the bullet was fired. If it was fired towards the center of the universe then I assume the greater number of red shift (higer speed photons) photons would have just a little more energy that the blue shift photons and may slow the bullet to a stop befor it reaches the center.


If fired towards emerging red-shift (higher En) photons ... then bullet will gain more Energy ... transferred as heat. If the En transfer is greater than the mass (negative) force from the impacting photons then it will not be slowed. ..... (I cannot remember if photons are assigned a mass ... being energy packages.) Energy does not have mass. Light does not have mass. Hence photons should not have mass.

If it is fired twoards the end of the universe, then assuming the universe will expand untill matter and energy fall apart, then I think it is true the bullet would never stop....and may even speed up.


Agreed fired towards and in same direction as expanding universe would drag it along, but it will not approach or pass speed of light so would expand but should not fall apart necessarily. But again that would depend on material properties of the bullet. But most metallic meteoric objects retain some compactness on their travels without necessarily disintegrating.
Too complex :? Unknown variables.

By the way, I am not sure about this but I don't think there is a limit or endpoint to gravity, but after a certain distance it becomes infinitesimally minute. In other words I think we are affected by Pluto's gravity, but it is so minute the only way to measure it is to see the wobble in the sun's travel through the galaxy.


Where is there zero gravity in space? ... Yes there will be gravitational pull of some form from nearest objects ... and immense on passing near black holes...

The gravity generated by speeding bullet will attract (bend / wobble) more photons towards it.

OK .... I will rest the speeding bullet scenario and sleep on it ...

Sweet dreams. :D
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Re: Small Step for a Man ... Giant Leap for Mankind!

Postby Novus » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:52 am

Oracle wrote:
If fired towards emerging red-shift (higher En) photons ... then bullet will gain more Energy ... transferred as heat. If the En transfer is greater than the mass (negative) force from the impacting photons then it will not be slowed. ..... (I cannot remember if photons are assigned a mass ... being energy packages.) Energy does not have mass. Light does not have mass. Hence photons should not have mass.

It will gain energy, but it will be kinetic energy converted into thermal energy....in other words it's speed is still slowed.

As far as photons exerting a force on an object it hits, well think of comets and comet tails. Comet tails are particles knocked off the comet surface by light and radiation from the sun, a comet tail is always going away from the sun as a result. (comets in deep space have no tail)
From what I understand it is called "radiation pressure" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_pressure

Agreed fired towards and in same direction as expanding universe would drag it along, but it will not approach or pass speed of light so would expand but should not fall apart necessarily. But again that would depend on material properties of the bullet. But most metallic meteoric objects retain some compactness on their travels without necessarily disintegrating.
Too complex Confused Unknown variables.
One theor of the universe is it does not have enough mass and energy to hold it together if it keeps expanding forever. If it does not have enough mass and energy, then that means all particles can decay over enough time and eventually the universe will be nothing but a huge area of very distant and very small particles of energy....or something, the theory is beyond my brain's ability to comprehend.
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