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What are TCs willing to give, in return for direct trade?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Alexandros Lordos » Sat May 07, 2005 9:21 am

Kifeas wrote:Those who do not feel Cypriots and instead they claim to be Greeks or GreekCypriots or Turks or TurkishCypriots can as well leave the country because this country belongs only to the Cypriots.


Kifeas, is there a need to be so aggressive about this? We know from social studies that those who would define themselves as purely Cypriot, are only about 20% of the population. Clearly you are one of them, and that is great. But are you serious in saying that everyone else should leave?

"Being Cypriot" should be seen as a long term target, something to aspire to as the fruit and end result of a solution to the Cyprus Problem (because all that the current division does is to cement the separate sense of identity of GCs from TCs) rather than as a pre-condition to citizenship.

Be careful, 30 years ago we were shouting "Cyprus is only for the Greeks, everyone else should leave". You wouldn't want to replace one aggressive nationalism for another, would you?
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Postby Alexandros Lordos » Sat May 07, 2005 9:25 am

MicAtCyp wrote:Alex when you say "ports" do you mean seaports or airports?


I mean seaports.

MicAtCyp wrote:If there was another option for us getting both K1 and K2 I would give that a 4 point.


So would I ... :wink:

But it seemed to me that it wouldn't be realistic to aim for such a deal (i.e the TC leadership would never accept). Unless of course we also threw airports into the bargain ...

Pity I didn't ask this actually.
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Postby Kifeas » Sat May 07, 2005 11:23 am

Alexandros Lordos wrote:
Kifeas wrote:Are you a GREEK, a GREEKcypriot or a greek speaking CYPRIOT?


Well, I am not entirely sure ... I am certainly not "Greek", I would say I am something between a "Greek Cypriot" and a "greek speaking Cypriot", to use your terminology.

I feel I have strong roots in greek culture and history, from ancient times till today, so I would hesitate to let all that go and say that I am just "greek speaking" - it's more than just language for me.

Then again, the sense of being a "Cypriot" is also very important to me, it has to do with what we are today in our social reality rather than with where we came from ...


Ok! I see your point. Perhaps I see it in a similar way. I purposefully put the question very plainly and too far into terms of “black or white.” When I asked if you are a “GREEK” I did not refer to the term in its classical (historical) sense, but rather in the specific modern sense of citizenship and permanent country of residence.

When I used the term “Greek speaking” I meant in terms of maternal language. As we all know a maternal language (mother tongue,) is not only a tool for everyday communication but also a bearer of history, culture and civilianisation. Therefore, I believe what you mentioned above regarding your strong roots in Greek culture and history, is perfectly included in what I would describe you as a Greek speaking CYPRIOT.

To “help” explain what I exactly mean, I will give the following example(s.)
The way one will answer these questions will help define him/her better in terms of my “notorious,” by now, question.

I am a supporter of Omonia football team, which as you know considers APOEL to be her “eternal opponent” in Cyprus football affairs. Not only I want my team to always win whenever she plays against APOEL, but I also want APOEL to always loose whenever she plays with any other Cypriot team. For me, there is an almost equal satisfaction to hear that my team won a game and/or to hear that APOEL has lost a game.
In Greece I am a fervent supporter of Panathinaikos. I want Panathinaikos to win every game it plays, not only in Greece but also in Europe.

It so happens that when playing for the European cup, APOEL draws to play against Panathinaikos. Which one of the two teams I should prefer or support to win? Of course APOEL and with a good score, despite the fact that I know that Panathinaikos has by far more chances to go further up in the European cup qualifications. For me, it is by far more important for a Cypriot team to win a European game, even if it means to disqualify Panathinaikos and then loose in the next round, than for Panathinaikos to win the Champions league cup.

I give another example.
We are students in a University in the U.S. There are 8 students from Greece, 9 students from Turkey and 8 students from Cyprus (5 “GCs” and 3 “TCs.”) The university decides to organize a football tournament with teams coming from students based on the various countries of origin. Every student-country-team is allowed to include up to 3 players from a different country, should the number of students from a country are not enough to make a team of 11 players. The team from Greece needs 3 extra players and the team from Turkey needs 2 extra players. The Cypriot players have an option, either to get together (GCs & TCs,) and form a Cypriot team of 8, in which case we will need 3 extra players from a different country; or we can join the Greek and the Turkish teams respectively, in which case the two “motherland” teams will not need any extra players from deferent nationalities.

What would I do, if I were one of the 8 Cypriot students?
I would definately insist that we form a Cypriot team, since it is possible, and have our country represented in the tournament even though we will need 3 extra players from a different country; rather than joining the Greek team, since they also need 3 extra players to make up a team and we are only 5 “GC” students.
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