Cyprus-Forum.com

[purdey]

I thought firearms in NY were fairly widespread until Juliano got into office, again I may need correcting.

[GorillaGal]

I thought firearms in NY were fairly widespread until Juliano got into office, again I may need correcting.

i don't know anyone with a gun. well, maybe one person. of course, i don't hang out in the south bronx.

[Novus]

Welcome new member Novus.

Are you planning to take on the Turkish Army for us ?

Lol, I actually wondered about that.
Just like with how America is with everyone armed (well, about 40% of everyone armed with a firearm in their home actually) and how it would be idiotic to invade and occupy us, I imagine if Cypriots, and not just the military reserves, were well armed, the Turks might think twice about doing it again.

Think if thousands of Greek Cypriots in Farmagusta or Karenya had a quarter the weapons I have each and they stood their ground alongside the military (my knowledge Cypriot history is not detailed, so bear with me) or stayed and took on guerilla warfare with those weapons, then even if there would be a greater loss of life on both sides, the Turks may have realized it is not so easy and may not have stayed.
I understand I am being idealistic, but really, a well armed populace is always a damn good deterrent to invasion or suppression. Just look how well the Iraqi "insurgents" have been kicking our (as in my America's) ass all these years. They couldn't have done it nearly as well without guns already there dispersed among the people.
Look at how Hitler in a huge part was dissuaded from invading Switzerland.

Think about why so many Cyprus reservists are allowed to have fully auto assault rifles or hanguns in their homes right now. It is because a well armed populace is a great detterent, but what I propose is even the non-reservists (that are responsible and law abiding) be allowed to be just as armed thereby an even greater deterrent.

Now if peace for a hundred years is guaranteed and there is no threat of invasion or the possibility of an illegal and oppressive government taking control, then I can see no "defense of the people" need for arms, but looking back at milleniums of history we can see nothing is truly guaranteed in this world when dealing with human society given enough time.

where did you get these stats? i don't own a gun, nor do any of my friends. acording to your stats, at least some of them should.....

There have been recent polls and there was a gun ownership survey conducted in 1994 by the US Department of Justice.
All the polls in recent years have shown about 30-35% of Americans are gun owners and about 40-45% of all housholds have a firearm in it.

http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf
http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm

Now gun ownership rates increase with some regions, but even in the states with the lowest gun ownership there at least a 20% gun ownership rate.
Of my neighbors here in MD, the rate seems higher than the national average even. I know many people that own a gun or are going to buy one.

EDIT: I meant about 40-45% of all respondents said they live in a house where a firearm is.

[Novus]

I believe the figures come from the NRA, I may need correcting on this, Novus.

they have to be off, unless us new yorkers are the only civilized people in the USA (which could be the case since we didn't vote Bush in office.)

Go to upstate New York and you will find many gun owners. However, in most Burroughs of NYC firearms ownership is severely restricted and state wide there are costs and a lot of hoops to jump through associated with the permit process that many people are dissuaded from going through the effort and that keeps a lot of people from owning one.

So you live in NYC? I have Cypriot cousins there.

[GorillaGal]

Welcome new member Novus.

Are you planning to take on the Turkish Army for us ?

Lol, I actually wondered about that.
Just like with how America is with everyone armed (well, about 40% of everyone armed with a firearm in their home actually) and how it would be idiotic to invade and occupy us, I imagine if Cypriots, and not just the military reserves, were well armed, the Turks might think twice about doing it again.

Think if thousands of Greek Cypriots in Farmagusta or Karenya had a quarter the weapons I have each and they stood their ground alongside the military (my knowledge Cypriot history is not detailed, so bear with me) or stayed and took on guerilla warfare with those weapons, then even if there would be a greater loss of life on both sides, the Turks may have realized it is not so easy and may not have stayed.
I understand I am being idealistic, but really, a well armed populace is always a damn good deterrent to invasion or suppression. Just look how well the Iraqi "insurgents" have been kicking our (as in my America's) ass all these years. They couldn't have done it nearly as well without guns already there dispersed among the people.
Look at how Hitler in a huge part was dissuaded from invading Switzerland.

Think about why so many Cyprus reservists are allowed to have fully auto assault rifles or hanguns in their homes right now. It is because a well armed populace is a great detterent, but what I propose is even the non-reservists (that are responsible and law abiding) be allowed to be just as armed thereby an even greater deterrent.

Now if peace for a hundred years is guaranteed and there is no threat of invasion or the possibility of an illegal and oppressive government taking control, then I can see no "defense of the people" need for arms, but looking back at milleniums of history we can see nothing is truly guaranteed in this world when dealing with human society given enough time.

where did you get these stats? i don't own a gun, nor do any of my friends. acording to your stats, at least some of them should.....

There have been recent polls and there was a gun ownership survey conducted in 1994 by the US Department of Justice.
All the polls in recent years have shown about 30-35% of Americans are gun owners and about 40-45% of all housholds have a firearm in it.

http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf
http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm

Now gun ownership rates increase with some regions, but even in the states with the lowest gun ownership there at least a 20% gun ownership rate.
Of my neighbors here in MD, the rate seems higher than the national average even. I know many people that own a gun or are going to buy one.

well then, i am glad i don't live in your neighborhood.

[Novus]

...
well then, i am glad i don't live in your neighborhood.

I bet you my neighborhood is safer than your neighborhood.

[LENA]

Most of the people who loves guns/shooting loves hunting too. At least in Cyprus. I know its not all but most of them.

As for your question....no its not the same thing since guns can hurt or kill people and animals but not the antiques, sports etc. Unless you were talking about collecting guns and not using them which I doubt.

Actually I have a few guns I collected which will never be used to fire a bullet. I do use almost all the rest though.

Here in the US only about half the 90 or so million gun owners have hunted. The rest own firearms for sport and/or for protection and/or for collecting/investment.

Ok, so the killing thing comparison comes into play. So collecting guns or being excited about them is like racing cars or collecting them. Cars are involved in more deaths a year than firearms in my country and in probably every country besides Thailand, Colombia and South Africa (they have very strict gun laws there by the way).
Cars have been used to murder police officers, cars kill hundreds of thousands of deer a year, cars can be used as weapons of mass muder even: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS2JwUqZSHI

So when someone collects antique cars or likes working on cars and racing them, why does their hobby not have the stigma of killing too?

You must be kidding me. You are right cars can kill as well but not the antiques that go with 50-60 Km/hour. Also cars are useful but not guns. If you collect them as i said its ok...but you use them...and as you said most of the people who have guns hunt as well so they do kill.

Now tell me that you use guns for something useful.

Ever been hit by a car going just 30 miles an hour? I hear it hurts.
I also read somewhere that most vehicular collisions that result in pedestrian deaths occur at less than 40 MPH.

Yes, most guns can kill, but in America most guns are not used to kill anything. Most people that own guns have never hunted in their lives (just over half).
However, of the guns that are used for hunting, in many parts of this country hunting provides a good portion of the food families eat. For them that is useful and a practical purpose of the firearm.
Of the guns that are useful, well all of my guns are useful for something that have nothing to do with killing anything. Even though I have never needed to do this, my shotgun can be used as a flare gun, line throwing device, a door breeching device, a signalling device, a smelting tool (when fired), etc.
As far as my rifles, one of them can also be used as a flare gun and as a line throwing device.

(and yes, I do have flares for my shotgun and rounds that can be used for breeching in my closet just in case I need them)

But in any case, what is useful to me may not be considered useful to you. Using my guns for recreational target shooting is useful and very much so.

Novus...I doubt that those gun owners have their guns to provide their families with food. Hunting is like a sport to them...if they have luck and get a bird rabbit or any other wild animal they hunt its a bonus to them. But they do not hunt for food but for fun. We live in 2008 so dont tell me that you are using guns as a way to provide food to your family.

As Filitsa, purdey and you said guns dont kill but people...well guess what guns make people who want to kill to have an easy choice to achieve their goals

As Oracle said...I advice my bother to choose something else when he wants to buy a gun as a toy. and he is ok with that? Why you dont choose a different toy Novus? Kidding. I am not going to tell you what to do.

[Novus]

Novus...I doubt that those gun owners have their guns to provide their families with food. Hunting is like a sport to them...if they have luck and get a bird rabbit or any other wild animal they hunt its a bonus to them. But they do not hunt for food but for fun. We live in 2008 so dont tell me that you are using guns as a way to provide food to your family.

America is huge and one should realize a lot of us don't live in the cities or the suburbs. Yes, many....millions... of Americans hunt for their food even in this day and age. For many a large portion of their staple is from hunted food for at least a part of the year.
I don't hunt and I live in the suburbs. About the only hunting for meat I do is hunting for a McDonalds to get a burger.

Now I am not saying that those people living in the country or up in the Mountains in the US that hunt to provide food for their families don't also enjoy the hunt and would hunt even if they did not need the meat for their families, but I will bet that there are many that just hunt out of practicality and have no real desire for it other than to eat.

As Filitsa, purdey and you said guns dont kill but people...well guess what guns make people who want to kill to have an easy choice to achieve their goals

As Oracle said...I advice my bother to choose something else when he wants to buy a gun as a toy. and he is ok with that? Why you dont choose a different toy Novus? Kidding. I am not going to tell you what to do.

The odd thing about people that murder is that if they are going to murder someone they are going to try it if they have a gun or not. In a number of countries with few guns they still have a very high murder rate. Look at Russia for instance. I think only 20% of murders involved a gun and they have something like five times the murder rate the US does.

[pantheman]

Shooting / hunting, is just like any other activity, either you like to take part or you don't.

But please save the bulshit excuses I have heard all the arguments before. As long at it is legal, provides millions of pound in conservation, jobs, products and services and keeps vermin down to acceptable levels (I am talking UK here, althought the same could be applied elsewhere) I am happy with that.

I love guns, hunting, shooting and anything connected with field sports, but what really gets up my nose is these clever clot antis, that want to ban anything they don't like to do.

Leave us alone to enjoy our chosen activity without hindrence, give it a go, you may even like it.

For me, meeting the guys on a crisp cold Nov early morning, on a farm yard with the dogs running around, in anticipation of a good shooting session, well nothing comes close and it if were possible I would hunt everyday of the year in any country. But thats me, and like one of you said, ".... You are not trying to tell me what to do ...."

Thanks

[LENA]

Hello Pantheman and calm down my dear.