Cyprus-Forum.com

[garbitsch]

Turkey and Turkish people are the same. I don't understand why Greek Cypriots keep distinguishing the two...

[turkcyp]

deleted by the author...

[turkcyp]

deleted by the author...

[Kifeas]

CONSERVATIVE BIGOTS IS THE KEMALIST COUTRY IN WHICH YOU LIVE IN. YOU CUT THE NOSE OF THE LITTLE GIRLS BECAUSE THEY DON'T MARRY THEIR RAPISTS AND BREAK THE HANDS OF LITTLE CHILDREN BECAUSE THEY BURN A TURKISH FLAG.

Kifeas you passed the line. Thanks for showing your real face! Thanks for making generalizations about Turks and insulting them. Welcome to the land of racists.

My dear Friend,
Why do you become offended whenever I refer to the Kemalist Turkish ideology and the Kemalists in Turkey? Are you one of them?

What I say above is that the Kemalist Turkey (the ideology governing Turkey) is one of conservative bigots. I add more to it by saying that the Kemalist ideology (and consequently those who support and promote it) is a fascist ideology. Is that a racist comment? Or is it a fact?

First of all what is the definition of Racism?

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“Any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment, or exercise, on equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural, or any other field of public life.”

From the ICERD (International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination) http://www.sahrc.org.za/definition_of_racism.htm

Now let’s see who is a racist. Me who said the above sentence or the Kemalist ideology which I have condemned.

Did I say anything racist against the Turkish people? No! To the contrary I indirectly expressed my condemnation and sympathy for the sufferings of the Turkish people under the oppression of the Kemalist ideology. I accused the Kemalist Turkish regime and those who support it. Are you one of them? Is Insan one of them? You have to clarify this.

Now I accuse the Kemalist ideology and it’s promoters of being racists and fascists. Isn’t it a fact?
When they line up all the children from 5-6 years old every morning in schools and make them chant slogans like “How happy to say I am a Turk” or “One Turk equals the whole world,” aren’t they promoting chauvinism and racism? When they paid the same slogans on mountains and on posters everywhere in Turkey and in the occupied areas, aren’t they promoting racism? If not, then what are they doing?

I said that the Kemalist ideology is a fascist (totalitarian) ideology, isn’t it a fact?

What is the definition of fascism?

1. fascism -- (A political system that emphasizes nationalism, militarism, and anti- communist and totalitarian rule. Individuals are allowed to retain ownership of capital goods but are subject to centralized control.)

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The 14 Defining Characteristics Of Fascism
by Dr. Lawrence Britt
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights -
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause -
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
4. Supremacy of the Military -
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
5. Rampant Sexism -
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid.  Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.
6. Controlled Mass Media -
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
7. Obsession with National Security -
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined -
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
9. Corporate Power is Protected -
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
10. Labor Power is Suppressed -
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts -
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment -
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

From: http://thenatureofmind.typepad.com/thenatureofmind/

The only notable difference between classical fascist regimes and Kemalism is that it claims to be a secular one. However, is it really a secular ideology? No it isn’t. It replaced God and religion which the fascists promote with that of Atatürkism. Atatürk is the new god, Kemalism is the new religion.
All the other above characteristics (except no 8 which I analysed above) are, in one way or another, perfectly fulfilled by the Kemalist ideology.

You may complain that I associated the crimes and human right abuses that occur in rural Turkey with Kemalism.
Well, if a state chooses to spend billions of dollars every year to buy F-16, tanks and missiles in order to maintain a disproportionate for it’s size and needs army, just to frighten it’s neighbours and it’s perceived enemies everywhere, instead of spending these money (or even a small proportion of them) to provide education, health care, infrastructure, economic development and other benefits to the majority of it’s illiterate and impoverished people, then naturally it is the ideology of this country (Kemalism) to be blamed for these primitive human right abuses of her citizens against other citizens and especially against women.

[cannedmoose]

Forget the bi-communal, bi-sexual and all the rest of bi’s!

I'm all for a bi-sexual federation... at least TV would be more interesting...

Although the prospect of Christofias and Talat having an in-depth debate is enough to make on lose one's lunch

[Kifeas]

of two separate peoples and two separate states.

***************************

So what is his difference with Denktash who said the Cyprus problem was solved in 1974?

The idea of bicommunal and bizonal federation, if you remember..

In case you have forgetten "bi" means two in English.

May be you speak old Greek where bi means life or alive.

Forget the bi-communal, bi-sexual and all the rest of bi’s!
Cyprus is one and only one and belongs to all it’s people!

Bi- sexuals can go to bed if they like!

In your dreams may be,

We are all one people, LOL....

TurkCyp,
Talking with you for several times and especially after reading and analyzing your answers to Alexandros Lordos recent questioner, I concluded beyond doubt that you are nothing more than a concealed partitionist and a crypto-Kemalist (read crypto nationalist & crypto racist.) Unfortunately this is true for the majority of Turkish speaking (Tspk) Cypriots in this forum.

You probably all suffer from an inferiority complex which makes you feel and believe that the only way for you to live in a united Cyprus, as a community of Tspk Cypriots, is to have as individuals, more rights and political power than the Greek speaking (Gspk) Cypriots. Luckily not all Tspk Cypriots think in your way.

Naturally, due to your suffering from this inferiority complex, which by the way is the result of years of Kemalist ideological conditioning, you invent ways to justify your demands by claiming that you are a separate people, that you have separate ethnic rights and other unscrupulous and scientifically unfounded theories and sophisms.

I feel sympathy for your problem. I hope in time you will overcome these difficulties, like we (the majority of Gspk Cypriots) managed (thanks god)to overcome our own inferiority complexes that made us in the past to want to make union with Greece.

[turkcyp]

deleted by the author...

[Kifeas]

Forget the bi-communal, bi-sexual and all the rest of bi’s!

I'm all for a bi-sexual federation... at least TV would be more interesting...

Although the prospect of Christofias and Talat having an in-depth debate is enough to make on lose one's lunch

Cyprus is one and only one and indivisible. It belongs equally to all its people, the Cypriots. There is only one people in Cyprus, the Cypriots. Among others, there are Greek speaking Cypriots and Turkish speaking Cypriots. There is no Turkish and no Greek Cyprus. Those who do not feel Cypriots and instead they claim to be Greeks or GreekCypriots or Turks or TurkishCypriots can as well live the country because this country belongs only to the Cypriots. Bi-sexuals, by-zonals and all the rest can go to …… Here is Cyprus. Here is not Greece is not Turkey is not Uganda.

I am only a Cypriot!

[metecyp]

Talking with you for several times and especially after reading and analyzing your answers to Alexandros Lordos recent questioner, I concluded beyond doubt that you are nothing more than a concealed partitionist and a crypto-Kemalist (read crypto nationalist & crypto racist.) Unfortunately this is true for the majority of Turkish speaking (Tspk) Cypriots in this forum.

And there's the reason for Cyprus problem!!! Crypto-Kemalist and partitionist TCs are all to blame for!! Congratulations Kifeas, we're really getting somewhere in this forum!

[garbitsch]

The only notable difference between classical fascist regimes and Kemalism is that it claims to be a secular one. However, is it really a secular ideology? No it isn’t. It replaced God and religion which the fascists promote with that of Atatürkism. Atatürk is the new god, Kemalism is the new religion.
All the other above characteristics (except no 8 which I analysed above) are, in one way or another, perfectly fulfilled by the Kemalist ideology.

You may complain that I associated the crimes and human right abuses that occur in rural Turkey with Kemalism.
Well, if a state chooses to spend billions of dollars every year to buy F-16, tanks and missiles in order to maintain a disproportionate for it’s size and needs army, just to frighten it’s neighbours and it’s perceived enemies everywhere, instead of spending these money (or even a small proportion of them) to provide education, health care, infrastructure, economic development and other benefits to the majority of it’s illiterate and impoverished people, then naturally it is the ideology of this country (Kemalism) to be blamed for these primitive human right abuses of her citizens against other citizens and especially against women.

I will ask admin to transfer your post to "Jokes and Enigmas" section. I understand, as a GREEK cypriot, you are pretty much obsessed with Kemalism, which you totally got it wrong. It is the Kemalism that saved the Turkish nation from invading countries (i.e Britain, France, Greece, Russia, Italy). It is the Kemalism that toppled down the corrupt Sultan and its supporters. It is the Kemalism that emancipated people from the yoke of Sharia law. IT is the Kemalism that allowed women to vote and stand for election. It is THE Kemalism that lead to creation of a Modern and Western type of Turkish society - which has undergone into distortion since the Democrat Party rule. It is the Kemalism that abolished the Ummet ideology (unity of Muslims) and created a "Turkish" ideology. Those slogans were necessary in that period to make people feel like Turks and thus, they were encouraged to resist the occupationists.

Are there any true point in what you said? I said yes there are. But claiming Turkey to be a fascist state shows how you are biased and prejudiced against the Turks and Turkish State.
You are talking as if Greece has never pursued "nationalistic" policies. How about "kalos tourkos o nekros tourkos" how about "we are sons of Alexander the Great blah blah blah"?? Thanks for thinking for Turkish people but I do not believe in your sympathy. Turks and the Turkish state are same. And Turks are very proud of their leader M. Kemal Ataturk - founder of Modern Turkey- . If you have a problem with him, then you have a problem with the rest of the Turkish nation.

Yes I am a modern, secular person who supports the Kemalist ideology. If you call me fascist, then it will be only your problem. But if you keep insulting the Turks and try to find some cheap excuses, then I will always get offended with such posts.