Cyprus-Forum.com

[purdey]

Missing link, maybe ?

[Oracle]

Oh hello purdey!

What are you doing here?

[purdey]

Just window shopping, is that ok, or is this a restricted area.
Lowest form of witt sweetie...

[Oracle]

Just window shopping, is that ok, or is this a restricted area.
Lowest form of witt sweetie...

You misjudge me again .... it is just that I have not had any other visitors to this thread for long while ...

I was getting comfy with it being just Magnus and I ... not that you are not welcome ...

Especially if you have a topical comment

[purdey]

Sorry, I will pass on comment...thank you.

[Magnus]

Amoebae and viruses etc, I'm not so sure. We can define them as being alive in the same way we consider trees and plants to be alive, but maybe all these things are a different kind of 'alive'. In my little mind it makes more sense that these things all form a part of 'nature' and are therefore 'alive' in the sense that nature is alive in whole but not individually. So maybe an amoeba doesn't have its own soul but shares in the greater soul of nature.

I think you are prejudiced against the humble amoeba because you cannot see it readily. But it has every one of the requirements of being alive.

It respires, it grows, it digests food, it reproduces etc. It is alive .... you just need a microscope to see it. That is our limitation not that of the protozoan.

But you are happy to assign existence to God or a soul without being able to see them. So why not Amoeba ... when you can see it at least with a microscope

I have to admit I don't know much about the amoebae so maybe I am a bit prejudiced due to my own ignorance (isn't that always the way with prejudices?). For all I know, the amoebae are secretly in charge of everything, but I'm still going to stick with my original theory that they're part of nature, which is not an insignificant role. If they have their own souls then good for them, I'm happy to be accept that my knowledge of their experiences and condition is limited

For the other part of the question, well I suppose I'm at a point where I don't need to see things to know they exist or are beyond my comprehension, sort of in the same way that I can't see the Alps from where I sit but I know they're out there.

Obviously, humans and animals also form a part of nature, so a part of our souls are connected to nature too and we should take joy in the knowledge that we are all connected to all things, thought perhaps less joy in the knowledge that we are also connected to certain undesirable individuals

I agree we are all connected ... but only as diffusing chemicals that we exchange as we live grow and die.

Fair enough. I'd rather think of myself as having some sort of unity with my fellow humans and creatures of the Earth. If aliens were to invade us one day, I would hope that all the humans would stand together!

Maybe the difference is that people (and animals to some degree) have souls that are mostly independent of nature in order to allow us more free will. It certainly works the other way if we consider that the greater the degree of free will we have, the more independent of nature (and/or God) we are.

So if man developed free will to some unfathomable degree he will inevitably detach from God completely?

Maybe not inevitable but it's possible isn't it? If I wasn't limited by my own physical form and the laws of nature etc, if I was truly without limit then I might become overpowered by my own sense of self-importance and come to think of myself as God. On the other hand, perhaps if that were to happen to me then I might conclude that there was definitely a God as my own state would be equal to His own.

Viruses etc can only do what they are 'programmed to do'. Chicken Pox doesn't really choose who it infects ('I quite like Gary so I'll leave him alone but I hate Phil so he can have the pox'). So viruses and proteins etc can only form part of nature and can be part of it's soul because they aren't capable of doing anything else, while human beings are largely independent so we have our own.

But the Virus does show preference, it will infect a cow and not a chicken or Tom and not Harry. What's more it can choose to lay dormant (like Herpes) then become virulent and break out (cold sore).

OK, so maybe they have more ability than I thought but I still bunch them in with the amoebae.

Clones are a very tricky one but in my opinion they have no souls as they are not part of nature or humanity. However they may be created, the fact remains that they are artificial. Besides, there are far easier ways of creating more animals (or people) if we need them

Clones are virtually no different to identical twins....

Which on of the twins gets the soul Magnus?

The twins are separate individuals regardless of the fact that they sprang from the same source, so they get one each. If the whole 'twins bond' thing is true then maybe they get souls that are connected to each other.

Now I know my answer may not be entirely satisfactory to people who need evidence in order to believe in anything, and that's fair enough. It just comes down to what you want to be. You can be just a part of the natural chain, be born, grow, procreate, die etc. Or you can be part of something far greater. The beauty of free will is you get to choose.

You can only choose if you could perceive what is on offer. How do you perceive what is offered to be able to choose and exercise your free will?

I'd say that which is on offer is that which you want to be. The rewards are only limited by what your mind can conceive, and maybe they go beyond even that because the source of those rewards is limitless. For example, I don't want to be disconnected from the rest of the world, wandering through a life that is basically a cycle of eat, sleep, work, marry, have children, die. I want to be part of a greater scheme where we are all inter-connected in some way and our lives have more significance than being part of the food chain.

So by having even a small sense of spirituality then I can become more than the sum of my parts and daily experiences and it makes me feel better. It also gives me something to aspire to, to be better and greater tomorrow than I am today. So that's what's on offer for me.

Maybe for other people it's different, but I'd like to think that there is something on offer for everyone. Obviously if other people are happy with what they are, what they have, where their place and role is in the world and they don't want anything more, then that's fantastic and I'm happy for them.

... have a soul or not because you're just part of the chain.

Chains have links. Where in the chain are we?

The chain is an endless circle so we are at all places at the same time. We can call it the 'circle of life' if that's easier, though I hate the reference to Elton John We live, we die, our souls return to the divine. I don't know about reincarnation, but if we consider the soul to be part of God then God is infinite so there is no need for the same soul to return to Earth.

I hope I'm not embarrassing myself here, I'm doing my best with things I can hardly explain. Science and religion are not my strongest subjects.