Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

thank you.

[MicAtCyp]

Well Metecyp? Whats the matter did you lose your voice? What you are looking for is on page 4. Is MicAtCyp calling ALL of you ANIMALS like someone is calling us, or is he trying to fix a date for only ONE specific ANIMAL. I will wait your reply even If I have to remind you 100o times.
I WILL NOT LET THIS PASS!!!

[uzan]

are you a Greek or a Greek Cypriot??? the two are very different in my opinion.

I am from a GC from Famagusta.

O.

Iam Turkish Cpriot from Baf.Iam not Cpriot,I am Turkish Cpriot.

[erolz]

It is about time that the Turks end their occupation and ask for forgiveness like the Germans did for the World War. Did the Germans excuse their crimes by saying "oh, but you know the British and the French treated us unfairly and this excuses all the outrageous crimes we have committed"?? If they wanted, they too could have a billion of excuses to say.

What is the difference between Nazis and the Turks? None. Neither the Nazis had admitted their crimes while they were winning. But nobody can win forever. The time for justice will come for Cyprus also. We will not declare defeat as many of you expect. We will fight until justice is served.

an you not see the irony of what you are saying here Piratis. Do the German people today claim that 'ordinary' Germans have no guilt or culpability for the artocities committed by the Nazi regieme. Do they constantly claim that it was only a 'few extermists' that were the reasons those attrocites happened, or do they in general accept that the German people have a responsibility for for not stopping what happened and appologise for it and take positive decsions to ensure it never happens again. Look to your attitudes and your behviours as well as ours. You deny the responsibility of the GC community in what happened in 63-74. You excuse it based on previous 'actions' of the ottoman empire. What you do not do and apparently seem incable of doing is accepting that GC in general did not do enough to stop extremisim and 'balance of power' based aggression against TC. You continue with these denials wheather you are winning (as in 63-74) or losing (as in after 74) and then seek to lecture us on our behaviour in this regard. Own up and accept the blame that is fairly due to GC for the mess we are in and then you can lecture us from a moral high ground. Continue to deny or minimise any blame on GC then do not be surprised at the reaction the provokes.

PS sorry for being so 'late' with this post. Trying to catch up.

[erolz]

People wether we like it or not free healtrh care is given to TC which is paid for by the hard working GC tax payers and for that we should be grateful but in modern and civilised society it is considered the height of bad manners to slap some one in the face with the fact if you are doing a good deed imo.

The question to me is why are they allowing TC to use the RoC healthcare facilites. Is this genuinely motivated by a desire to show goodwill to the TC community or is it motivate by a political desire to strenghten their claim to be the legitmate and sole government of all of cyprus and all cypriots. Mt personal beleif is it is the latter. Howerver I do not 'slap' them for doing so. For TC that are in need of healthcare and can not get it here I am sure they care not why it is availble to them in the RoC and are grateful for it as am I on thier behalf. Howeevr do I percieve it as a selfless act of the GC RoC designed to show goodwill and their concern for TC and thier community. I am afarid I do not.

Personally should I be in the need of healthcare that was not available in the North I would seek it in the UK - free or otherwise but few TC have a similar option.

[erolz]

As far as I am concerned, being a Greek Cypriot is like being a Greek from Cyprus which means being just as Greek as any other Greek from Athens, Salonica, Crete or Astoria, NYC (and no "couple of tanks" can change that).

O.

With respect I think this is a problem for Cyprus. There is no widespread concpet of a Cypriot nation and a Cypriot national identity (from mant TC and GC alike). As long as this view predominates we will continue to have problems in my view. I want us to work towards creating a true unifed Cypriot nation with a Cypriot idenitity that we can share and place above our respective Greek and Turkish heritages (whilst not abondoning these either). It seems to me not only do you consider yourself Greek and not different from a Greek from Athens you also consider Cyprus Greek and no different from Crete etc - and if TC have any place in this Greek Cyprus it is as an ethnic Turkish speaking minority in a Greek state. This is as I see it a problem. Why should I or would I want or suport efforts to make Cyprus a Greek island - all be it a Greek Island with it's own 'sovreignty'? Would I be willing to work in co operation with GC to build a true Cyriot nation? Certainly I would. Would I be willing to work with GC in creating a Greek nation called Cyprus. No I would not.

[Piratis]

accept the blame that is fairly due to GC for the mess we are in

I accept our own part. I did this many times but probably you choose to ignore it. (I did it recently also in another thread in more detail. I guess you missed it)

However the fault is not an equal one. You said about 63-74. If you want I will make that 2 decades just to cover all events.

Now if you would also be ready to accept your part of responsibility, you should begin to remember everything that happened in the interaction of the two communities from the beginning until today, and not to remember selectively a very short part of history.

When you do that, you will see that Turks and TCs acted in much worst ways against GCs for much longer periods.

So I accept the blame that is fairly due to the GCs. Will you now accept the 10x blame that is fairly due to Turks and TCs? Or maybe you will continue to magnify and emphasize those 10-20 years, and forget the rest of history?

[MicAtCyp]

Metecyp,

I dont need explanations via Private Messages! Everything you have to say, say it here. Last time you did not have any problem saying it here, why do you have such a problem now?

You accuse me of many things. Each and every issue you refer was discussed.You want to discuss them again? Go to the relevant threads and present your position there for further discussion.Be sure to quote the original provocation and original response. Out of memory impressions are just impressions. You may be right in your "impressions" you may be wrong.

To say the least you demonstrated clearly a hypocritic stance in this case, and although you did the same in the past I couldn't say anything because it was not clear. This time however I decided I will not let it pass, as I did in previous times.

[erolz]

accept the blame that is fairly due to GC for the mess we are in

I accept our own part. I did this many times but probably you choose to ignore it. (I did it recently also in another thread in more detail. I guess you missed it)

Well it is hard to 'beleive' this when you claim that the GC community bears no responsbility after 1960 and only a handful of GC extremists have any blame after this period. Statments like this undemine and belie any others you may have made that accept blame - to me at least.

However the fault is not an equal one. You said about 63-74. If you want I will make that 2 decades just to cover all events.

I talk of the Cypriot nation as an independent country. I talk of out history from 1960 and the failures of both communites to build a true united Cypriot nation and the reasons why. I talk of the blame of each community in this failure. Yes this is 'selective'.

Now if you would also be ready to accept your part of responsibility, you should begin to remember everything that happened in the interaction of the two communities from the beginning until today, and not to remember selectively a very short part of history.

I am willing and able to admit the faults of the TC community and how we played our part in the mess of Cyprus today. However I do not accept that we should as TC community accept blame for what the ottoman empire did to GC over 100 of years ago. To me that is just a means of distracting us from what we need to discuss, understand and solve - which is the failure of Cypriots to build a Cypriot nation.

When you do that, you will see that Turks and TCs acted in much worst ways against GCs for much longer periods.

TC are not Turks. We are not as a TC commuity in Cyprus to blame for what Cypriots (TC GC or any other Cypriots) sufferd under the phoncieans, lusignans, British, Ottomans or any other of the many many rulers of Cyprus before it gains its staus as a sovrign nation. The TC community is responsible for the acts of the TC community and the part they played in creating the mess of today. GC are responsible for the actions of the GC community and the part they played in in creating the mess of today. Neither is responsbile for Briths rule, Ottoman rule or any other previous rulers acts in Cyprus. That is my view.

So I accept the blame that is fairly due to the GCs. Will you now accept the 10x blame that is fairly due to Turks and TCs? Or maybe you will continue to magnify and emphasize those 10-20 years, and forget the rest of history?

I do not accept that TC = Turks = Ottomans theefore TC community today should accept the blame for what happend to GC at the hands of Ottomand rulers hundreds of years ago. As I say above we are responsible for the acts of the TC community and you are responsible for the acts of the GC community. In the period 63-74 in my view the GC community bear greater blame for sowing the seeds of what happenmed in 74 than TC community is. I believe it was in the pwoer and ability of the GC community from 1960 to create a Cyprus in which the events of &$ would never have been possible and could not have happend and they actievly chose not to create such a Cyprus but instead gamble on the creation of Greek nation of Cyprus - to all our loss and I vbleieve they should accept and tkae the blame for this. I also do not believe for an instance that if ottoman rule had never existed in Cyprus yet the TC community had that GC community would have behaved any differently in this period.

[Piratis]

So according to you when did the TC community appear? They fall from the sky (and this is why they are the Virgin Maries)?

Either the TCs are the Ottomans that ruled Cyprus (insan supports this), or they are other Cypriots (Greeks, Latins etc) that were converted to Muslims and joined the Ottomans. (or a combination of the above).