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Is Cyprus a sovereign State?

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Is Cyprus a sovereign State?

Postby pantelis » Thu May 05, 2005 5:13 am

U.S. threats to establish the military logistics center either in neighboring Bulgaria or the Mediterranean island of Cyprus also jolted Turkey into a decision, said Murat Yetkin, a veteran observer of Turkish-American relations.


I have posted this article, in a different thread, but without getting any reaction from TCs or GCs on the forum.


Turkey, supposetely, took the threats (to move the bases to Cyprus) as real and gave in to the US demands, regarding the use of the Incirlik base.

Where in Cyprus did they have in mind to establish the new bases?
In the north, in the ROC controlled areas, or within the British bases?
Any ideas guys?


Here is the entire article......


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-usturk3may03,1,3562369.story?coll=la-headlines-world&ctrack=1&cset=true

THE WORLD
Turkey OKs Expanded U.S. Use of Key Air Base
The arrangement, in principle, would allow the facility to serve as a hub for nonlethal cargo deliveries to Iraq and Afghanistan.
By Amberin Zaman
Special to The Times

May 3, 2005

ANKARA, Turkey — After months of hesitation, Turkey has agreed in principle to allow the U.S. expanded use of a strategic air base as a major hub for nonlethal cargo deliveries to Iraq and Afghanistan, Turkish and U.S. officials confirmed today.

"We have reached agreement for the cargo hub on mutually acceptable terms," said a senior Turkish official who spoke on condition of anonymity.

A U.S. Embassy spokesman said, "Turkish and U.S. military officials have almost completed work on the technical details of the arrangement."

Under the agreement, U.S. cargo would be flown to the Incirlik air base near the southern Turkish city of Adana on civilian charter planes and then transferred to military cargo planes for delivery to Iraq and Afghanistan.

That would make delivery of supplies to both countries less costly and more efficient, the U.S. official said.

The base has been used during and since the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq to refuel U.S. Air Force jets en route to Turkey's southern neighbor. The U.S. sees Turkish approval for expanded facilities as a positive if inadequate step toward improving ties between the two North Atlantic Treaty Organization allies. Although the request was made in June 2004, Turkey "did not respond until now," the U.S. official said.

Hopes for a deal rose last week when Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, a strong critic of U.S. policy in Iraq, told parliament that "the United States is the main axis of our foreign policy."

In his warmest description of relations with the U.S. since taking power more than two years ago, Erdogan added: "We can never forget America's support" for Turkey's efforts to join the European Union.

Erdogan does not need permission from parliament to allow U.S. use of the air base.

Relations have been rocky since the lead-up to the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003. At that time, parliament rejected a bill authorizing thousands of U.S. troops to use Turkish territory to open a second front against Saddam Hussein's forces in northern Iraq.

The U.S. later rebuffed an offer by Turkey to send troops to help police Sunni Muslim strongholds in central Iraq after Baghdad's interim government voiced strong opposition to any Turkish military presence.

Relations further deteriorated last year when Erdogan called Iraqi insurgents "martyrs" and members of his party described U.S. actions in Iraq as "genocide."

Analysts say the government's rhetoric was aimed at appeasing unprecedented anti-American sentiment in Turkey fueled in part by Turkish media coverage of U.S. military behavior in Iraq. "The government sees itself squeezed between the U.S. and the Islamic world," said Cuneyt Ulsever, a liberal commentator for the Hurriyet daily newspaper.

Washington's continued reluctance to take military action against separatist Kurdish rebels based in northern Iraq is another constant thorn. Turkish anger has deepened amid escalating violence between Turkish forces and the rebels, who say they have killed 50 Turkish soldiers in the last 10 days and claimed responsibility for two bomb attacks last week in Istanbul and the Aegean tourist resort of Kusadasi, which killed a policeman.

But some Western diplomats also blame members of Erdogan's circle of advisors for the chill. "There are those who are trying to persuade Erdogan that Turkey would be better off leading the Muslim world than being part of the European Union or a U.S. ally," said a European diplomat.

Hilmi Ozkok, Turkey's determinedly pro-Western chief of general staff, and Abdullah Gul, the country's moderate foreign minister, have played key roles behind the scenes in securing approval for the cargo hub, Turkish officials close to the negotiations confirmed.

U.S. threats to establish the military logistics center either in neighboring Bulgaria or the Mediterranean island of Cyprus also jolted Turkey into a decision, said Murat Yetkin, a veteran observer of Turkish-American relations.

Others believe that Erdogan approved the deal to help stave off a U.S. congressional resolution recognizing the mass killings of Armenians in Turkey during World War I as genocide and to secure a meeting with President Bush when he travels to the United States next month.

The president is now expected to receive Erdogan, a Turkish official said.
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Re: Is Cyprus a sovereign State?

Postby turkcyp » Thu May 05, 2005 6:03 am

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Re: Is Cyprus a sovereign State?

Postby Saint Jimmy » Thu May 05, 2005 4:46 pm

turkcyp wrote:As for north Cyprus we know that upto 5 years ago, there were rumors that Turkey will pressure TRNC to offer a base to USA so that USA can get out of Incirlik. But they were all rumors.

Turkcyp,
this part of your post struck me as odd. That's probably because of the picture I've drawn in my head of the TRNC through the years.
I would think that if Turkey wanted a base for the US on TRNC soil, all they'd have to do is decide on it (especially 5 years ago)!
What you're saying is that Turkey wanted to do it, but the TRNC resisted, and finally got its way, against Turkey's will...?!

Could you say more on how the Turkey-TRNC diplomatic relationghips work? Everybody in the RoC seems to think that Turkey simply decides and the TRNC simply follows suit...
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Re: Is Cyprus a sovereign State?

Postby turkcyp » Thu May 05, 2005 5:03 pm

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Re: Is Cyprus a sovereign State?

Postby Saint Jimmy » Thu May 05, 2005 5:13 pm

turkcyp wrote:Dear Saint Jimmy,

Please do not call me arrogant when I tell you that you have been led to believe the classical GC propaganda at that Turkey calls the shots in north. Turkey’s influence on north is undeniable but to claim that they would get their way in everything they want is far from reality.

:lol:
I'm not going to call you arrogant. That's what I suspected, too:
That's probably because of the picture I've drawn in my head of the TRNC through the years.

Thanks for the rest, although... one thing I don't understand:
if the rumors were, indeed, true, and Turkey was trying to get a base for the Americans in the North, and the people weren't openly opposed to it, why didn't it go through? I mean, it was Denktash back then, surely he must have believed that conceding bases to the Americans would most likely upgrade the 'TRNC' and most probably establish some sort of direct relations with the States...?
Do you know what the objection was?
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Re: Is Cyprus a sovereign State?

Postby turkcyp » Thu May 05, 2005 5:17 pm

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Postby cannedmoose » Thu May 05, 2005 5:41 pm

I think the article has little basis in truth. I don't see how moving to a base in TRNC would have changed anything, in anything, this would have enhanced Turkey's claim for recognition of the territory. As for the US being granted base rights in the RoC... can you really see Christofias jumping up and down with excitement as such a prospect??? :lol:

As for the US being allowed to essentially 'take over' the SBAs... again, not a realistic proposition. They may be sovereign British territory, but I could foresee a massive collision between Cyprus and the UK in the European Courts should this ever transpire.

Incirlik is perfectly placed for the US strategically, economically and politically. If anywhere, and if they really wanted to annoy the Turks, they'd move to a new base with their friends the Kurds in Northern Iraq...
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Postby turkkan » Thu May 05, 2005 9:25 pm

firstly, all talk about america planning to use the TRNC as a logistical hub is complete nonsense, for the simple reason that doing such a thing would be a BIG move towards recognition, or at least a taiwan style recognition. Such a thing is not in americas cards, and was certainly not then.

As for your reply turkcyp

there were rumors that Turkey will pressure TRNC to offer a base to USA so

Pressure? LOL, if america wanted to do such a thing you should be jumping up and down not having to have your hand twisted. Such a move, which is so out of the question that it cannot even be passed of a rumour, would put the TRNCS relations with America at a very high level.

As for not being able to use South cyprus as a base because christofias will not jump up and down at the prospect, he didnt do a lot of jumping when the greek cypriot parliament accepted americans to use ROC skys for 'logistical and humanitarian flights' (a good will move btw as america could have used thoses bases with your permission). The greek cypriots would anyway do nearly anything to gain ground in a settlement and they would certainly accept such a proposal from america.


'They may be sovereign British territory, but I could foresee a massive collision between Cyprus and the UK in the European Courts should this ever transpire.'

And on what grounds did you forsee this? You forget that when you entered the EU you accepted that the soverign bases will remain OUT of the EU. THus it is not covered by any european legistlation and as far as the british are concerned they can carry out nuclear tests there if they wished or open a massive gay nudist beach and you wouldnt be able to do absolutely anything about it.
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Postby turkcyp » Thu May 05, 2005 9:38 pm

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Postby turkkan » Thu May 05, 2005 9:42 pm

there were rumors that Turkey will pressure TRNC to offer a base to USA so

The word pressure implies that the TRNC would have been against it but turkey would have forced her to accept.
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