Cyprus-Forum.com

[perdike]

I would like to think that drugs would be better than physical torture, but I also admit that Oracle has a point and it may just be a forerunner to other methods. I do still think though, that if it was a case of "wheres the bomb"? It would be pretty hard for the authorities NOT to use ANY methods at their disposal to save lives. All in all, its a tough one and very thought provoking...........

The 'other methods', although outlawed, are still used today, often to little advantage. If the use of drugs would get that information, MAYBE the use of torture would lessen . . I mean, if drugs produce the information, those who then carry on to physical torture are torturing for reasons other than getting information, and they would presumably do that even when not seeking information.

[Oracle]

If someone used a "truth" drug on me - and I was innocent they would let me go wouldn't they? Then whats the problem? If however they used physical torture such as mutilation, burning or a one-to-one questioning session with Oracle then I would probably confess to ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!

Tess it is not a matter of they try one method and if they don't get the information they "want" they let you go .... Remember it's not about actually getting the truth .... because, how would they know what the truth was? ..... defeats the object of trying to get unknown information ...

Torture, as a method of information gathering, is outdated because it has been shown that information obtained under duress, to put it mildly .... is unreliable.

What happens I believe is a slow gradation of tougher tortures stopping only when either the party is dead or a gibbering wreck or the torturers have information that they believe is true ... but again "How do they know?".

So whilst "truth drugs" ... - which are not as innocent in their effects as you seem to think (probably from 007) - ... may be used initially, if the information was still not gathered, they would up the stakes to the next torture level, and so on and so on!

If that IS the case, then I would say NO to ALL methods of information gathering involving torture. I suppose if after the drug was used and the "torturers" didn't believe the answer, then yes, you are right, other methods would be applied, so I concede and join the NO TORTURE AT ALL party!! I know, lets have peace in the world and make torture extinct!!!

Atta girl tess .... One for all, and all for one.

.... and we didn't even have to go as far as debating the compromising of Morality issues behind the use of force .... and even drugs administered without consent are FORCE!

[perdike]

If someone used a "truth" drug on me - and I was innocent they would let me go wouldn't they? Then whats the problem? If however they used physical torture such as mutilation, burning or a one-to-one questioning session with Oracle then I would probably confess to ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!

Tess it is not a matter of they try one method and if they don't get the information they "want" they let you go .... Remember it's not about actually getting the truth .... because, how would they know what the truth was? ..... defeats the object of trying to get unknown information ...

Torture, as a method of information gathering, is outdated because it has been shown that information obtained under duress, to put it mildly .... is unreliable.

What happens I believe is a slow gradation of tougher tortures stopping only when either the party is dead or a gibbering wreck or the torturers have information that they believe is true ... but again "How do they know?".

So whilst "truth drugs" ... - which are not as innocent in their effects as you seem to think (probably from 007) - ... may be used initially, if the information was still not gathered, they would up the stakes to the next torture level, and so on and so on!

If that IS the case, then I would say NO to ALL methods of information gathering involving torture. I suppose if after the drug was used and the "torturers" didn't believe the answer, then yes, you are right, other methods would be applied, so I concede and join the NO TORTURE AT ALL party!! I know, lets have peace in the world and make torture extinct!!!

Atta girl tess .... One for all, and all for one.

.... and we didn't even have to go as far as debating the compromising of Morality issues behind the use of force .... and even drugs administered without consent are FORCE!

I have suddenly GOT IT. All this talk about chips, oven chips etc around Oracle . .

I have suddenly got what her problem is . . .

She's bowed down under the weight of a few MASSIVE CHIPS on her shoulders.

Sympathy for the SHE-DEVIL

[tessintrnc]

If someone used a "truth" drug on me - and I was innocent they would let me go wouldn't they? Then whats the problem? If however they used physical torture such as mutilation, burning or a one-to-one questioning session with Oracle then I would probably confess to ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!

Tess it is not a matter of they try one method and if they don't get the information they "want" they let you go .... Remember it's not about actually getting the truth .... because, how would they know what the truth was? ..... defeats the object of trying to get unknown information ...

Torture, as a method of information gathering, is outdated because it has been shown that information obtained under duress, to put it mildly .... is unreliable.

What happens I believe is a slow gradation of tougher tortures stopping only when either the party is dead or a gibbering wreck or the torturers have information that they believe is true ... but again "How do they know?".

So whilst "truth drugs" ... - which are not as innocent in their effects as you seem to think (probably from 007) - ... may be used initially, if the information was still not gathered, they would up the stakes to the next torture level, and so on and so on!

If that IS the case, then I would say NO to ALL methods of information gathering involving torture. I suppose if after the drug was used and the "torturers" didn't believe the answer, then yes, you are right, other methods would be applied, so I concede and join the NO TORTURE AT ALL party!! I know, lets have peace in the world and make torture extinct!!!

Atta girl tess .... One for all, and all for one.

.... and we didn't even have to go as far as debating the compromising of Morality issues behind the use of force .... and even drugs administered without consent are FORCE!

Then I have a confession...................... My son was forcibly held and MMR administered, without consent (his). The screams and that look that says "why are you letting them hurt me"? I remember it well, and I cried too........

[perdike]

If someone used a "truth" drug on me - and I was innocent they would let me go wouldn't they? Then whats the problem? If however they used physical torture such as mutilation, burning or a one-to-one questioning session with Oracle then I would probably confess to ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!

Tess it is not a matter of they try one method and if they don't get the information they "want" they let you go .... Remember it's not about actually getting the truth .... because, how would they know what the truth was? ..... defeats the object of trying to get unknown information ...

Torture, as a method of information gathering, is outdated because it has been shown that information obtained under duress, to put it mildly .... is unreliable.

What happens I believe is a slow gradation of tougher tortures stopping only when either the party is dead or a gibbering wreck or the torturers have information that they believe is true ... but again "How do they know?".

So whilst "truth drugs" ... - which are not as innocent in their effects as you seem to think (probably from 007) - ... may be used initially, if the information was still not gathered, they would up the stakes to the next torture level, and so on and so on!

If that IS the case, then I would say NO to ALL methods of information gathering involving torture. I suppose if after the drug was used and the "torturers" didn't believe the answer, then yes, you are right, other methods would be applied, so I concede and join the NO TORTURE AT ALL party!! I know, lets have peace in the world and make torture extinct!!!

Atta girl tess .... One for all, and all for one.

.... and we didn't even have to go as far as debating the compromising of Morality issues behind the use of force .... and even drugs administered without consent are FORCE!

Then I have a confession...................... My son was forcibly held and MMR administered, without consent (his). The screams and that look that says "why are you letting them hurt me"? I remember it well, and I cried too........

Yes, just as the children of Jehova Witness parents are made Wards-of-Court, so they can be given life saving blood transfusions.

[tessintrnc]

So we are all guilty.............mea culpa

[perdike]

So we are all guilty.............mea culpa

Oh no Tess. This is a true story, and very sad, but I tell it so you won't feel bad about giving your son the MMR.
My brother's little daughter, when a few weeks old, was rushed to hospital with what they thought was febrile convulsions. When, a little while later, it was time for her MMR vaccinations, they were advised not to vaccinate her, because of the risk associated with febrile convulsions.
Five years later, a week before she should have started school, she caught measles (unvaccinated!) which a week later turned into encephalitis, and she was rushed by ambulance to Great Ormond Street. The poor little girl survived, but as a shadow of herself, terribly brain-damaged and never stated school.
So, sometimes, inflicting momentary discomfort on a child is for the greater good.

[Oracle]

If someone used a "truth" drug on me - and I was innocent they would let me go wouldn't they? Then whats the problem? If however they used physical torture such as mutilation, burning or a one-to-one questioning session with Oracle then I would probably confess to ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!

Tess it is not a matter of they try one method and if they don't get the information they "want" they let you go .... Remember it's not about actually getting the truth .... because, how would they know what the truth was? ..... defeats the object of trying to get unknown information ...

Torture, as a method of information gathering, is outdated because it has been shown that information obtained under duress, to put it mildly .... is unreliable.

What happens I believe is a slow gradation of tougher tortures stopping only when either the party is dead or a gibbering wreck or the torturers have information that they believe is true ... but again "How do they know?".

So whilst "truth drugs" ... - which are not as innocent in their effects as you seem to think (probably from 007) - ... may be used initially, if the information was still not gathered, they would up the stakes to the next torture level, and so on and so on!

If that IS the case, then I would say NO to ALL methods of information gathering involving torture. I suppose if after the drug was used and the "torturers" didn't believe the answer, then yes, you are right, other methods would be applied, so I concede and join the NO TORTURE AT ALL party!! I know, lets have peace in the world and make torture extinct!!!

Atta girl tess .... One for all, and all for one.

.... and we didn't even have to go as far as debating the compromising of Morality issues behind the use of force .... and even drugs administered without consent are FORCE!

Then I have a confession...................... My son was forcibly held and MMR administered, without consent (his). The screams and that look that says "why are you letting them hurt me"? I remember it well, and I cried too........

Until children are legally regarded as "Adult" .... they are viewed as a "parasitic" extension of the parents, who are given Rights one would not have otherwise

..... but I don't have time to argue over this one now as my son is forcing me to think about completing a gruelling game of chess ... Torture!

[tessintrnc]

Quote..... but I don't have time to argue over this one now as my son is forcing me to think about completing a gruelling game of chess ... Torture! end quote

I used to play chess with my son (daughter was far too "girly) but her husband was the County Junior chess champion for two years running!!!

[Svetlana]

(For men only) Watching a Mohel (a failed rabbi) circumcise your son!


Nearly as bad as having to read every CyProb thread


Lana