Cyprus-Forum.com

[perdike]

Any statistics on how many innocents were tortured because some thick headed security operative suspected them of having relevant info? Are these people also "countless"?

During the dictatorship in Greece (1967-1974) countless people were tortured because they were suspected of being left wing or communist. The west turned ablind eye and some even an approving eye to the torture.

Those who approve of torture should think of this simple test- what if you were suspected and were put through the same techniques?

No torture, . . . EVER . . . because it negates the humanity of the torturers.
But DEFINITELY use of a drug to get information that would prevent the slaughter of others.

[tessintrnc]

If someone used a "truth" drug on me - and I was innocent they would let me go wouldn't they? Then whats the problem? If however they used physical torture such as mutilation, burning or a one-to-one questioning session with Oracle then I would probably confess to ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!

[perdike]

If someone used a "truth" drug on me - and I was innocent they would let me go wouldn't they? Then whats the problem? If however they used physical torture such as mutilation, burning or a one-to-one questioning session with Oracle then I would probably confess to ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!

When I was a very little girl, way back when, the nuns used to regale us with scare-mongering tales about how the communists would induce children to snitch on their religious parents, or be tortured. Gosh, I think I was permanently scarred . . worrying at night, nay absolutely KNOWING, that I would be one of those dammed-to-eternal flame children who betrayed their parents at the very whiff of torture!! (I later went to a secondary school where more enlightened, nuns-of-the-world were light years away from that kind of thinking!).

[Oracle]

If someone used a "truth" drug on me - and I was innocent they would let me go wouldn't they? Then whats the problem? If however they used physical torture such as mutilation, burning or a one-to-one questioning session with Oracle then I would probably confess to ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!

Tess it is not a matter of they try one method and if they don't get the information they "want" they let you go .... Remember it's not about actually getting the truth .... because, how would they know what the truth was? ..... defeats the object of trying to get unknown information ...

Torture, as a method of information gathering, is outdated because it has been shown that information obtained under duress, to put it mildly .... is unreliable.

What happens I believe is a slow gradation of tougher tortures stopping only when either the party is dead or a gibbering wreck or the torturers have information that they believe is true ... but again "How do they know?".

So whilst "truth drugs" ... - which are not as innocent in their effects as you seem to think (probably from 007) - ... may be used initially, if the information was still not gathered, they would up the stakes to the next torture level, and so on and so on!

[perdike]

If someone used a "truth" drug on me - and I was innocent they would let me go wouldn't they? Then whats the problem? If however they used physical torture such as mutilation, burning or a one-to-one questioning session with Oracle then I would probably confess to ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!

Tess it is not a matter of they try one method and if they don't get the information they "want" they let you go .... Remember it's not about actually getting the truth .... because, how would they know what the truth was? ..... defeats the object of trying to get unknown information ...

Torture, as a method of information gathering, is outdated because it has been shown that information obtained under duress, to put it mildly .... is unreliable.

What happens I believe is a slow gradation of tougher tortures stopping only when either the party is dead or a gibbering wreck or the torturers have information that they believe is true ... but again "How do they know?".

So whilst "truth drugs" ... - which are not as innocent in their effects as you seem to think (probably from 007) - ... may be used initially, if the information was still not gathered, they would up the stakes to the next torture level, and so on and so on!

Tess may, just possibly, be wider read than 007
What I am saying is NO PROGRESSION to violence. The regimes that would push truth drug on into physical torture wouldn't give a toss for any prohibitions on it, would they

[tessintrnc]

If someone used a "truth" drug on me - and I was innocent they would let me go wouldn't they? Then whats the problem? If however they used physical torture such as mutilation, burning or a one-to-one questioning session with Oracle then I would probably confess to ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!

Tess it is not a matter of they try one method and if they don't get the information they "want" they let you go .... Remember it's not about actually getting the truth .... because, how would they know what the truth was? ..... defeats the object of trying to get unknown information ...

Torture, as a method of information gathering, is outdated because it has been shown that information obtained under duress, to put it mildly .... is unreliable.

What happens I believe is a slow gradation of tougher tortures stopping only when either the party is dead or a gibbering wreck or the torturers have information that they believe is true ... but again "How do they know?".

So whilst "truth drugs" ... - which are not as innocent in their effects as you seem to think (probably from 007) - ... may be used initially, if the information was still not gathered, they would up the stakes to the next torture level, and so on and so on!

If that IS the case, then I would say NO to ALL methods of information gathering involving torture. I suppose if after the drug was used and the "torturers" didn't believe the answer, then yes, you are right, other methods would be applied, so I concede and join the NO TORTURE AT ALL party!! I know, lets have peace in the world and make torture extinct!!!

[perdike]

If someone used a "truth" drug on me - and I was innocent they would let me go wouldn't they? Then whats the problem? If however they used physical torture such as mutilation, burning or a one-to-one questioning session with Oracle then I would probably confess to ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!

Tess it is not a matter of they try one method and if they don't get the information they "want" they let you go .... Remember it's not about actually getting the truth .... because, how would they know what the truth was? ..... defeats the object of trying to get unknown information ...

Torture, as a method of information gathering, is outdated because it has been shown that information obtained under duress, to put it mildly .... is unreliable

What happens I believe is a slow gradation of tougher tortures stopping only when either the party is dead or a gibbering wreck or the torturers have information that they believe is true ... but again "How do they know?".

So whilst "truth drugs" ... - which are not as innocent in their effects as you seem to think (probably from 007) - ... may be used initially, if the information was still not gathered, they would up the stakes to the next torture level, and so on and so on!

If that IS the case, then I would say NO to ALL methods of information gathering involving torture. I suppose if after the drug was used and the "torturers" didn't believe the answer, then yes, you are right, other methods would be applied, so I concede and join the NO TORTURE AT ALL party!! I know, lets have peace in the world and make torture extinct!!!

Torture is not permitted now, under the Geneva convention, but it still happens.

Physical torture goes on, and STILL atrocities are carried out, wouding and maiming.

"Information gathering" as a result of the use of truth seeking drugs, might save life . . Physical torture carries on, regardless of "Conventions", but allowing the use of drugs might lessen it??

[connor]

If INNOCENT lives were at stake i would without hesitation advocate the use of drugs or torture against a suspect.

[perdike]

If INNOCENT lives were at stake i would without hesitation advocate the use of drugs or torture against a suspect.

I understand the FEELINGS behind wanting to use physical torture to save innocent life, Connor. . . but I will not demean my humanity by using their depraved methods. Thats why I see nothing wrong, and EVERYTHING on favour of, getting that information by using mind-altering drugs.

[tessintrnc]

I would like to think that drugs would be better than physical torture, but I also admit that Oracle has a point and it may just be a forerunner to other methods. I do still think though, that if it was a case of "wheres the bomb"? It would be pretty hard for the authorities NOT to use ANY methods at their disposal to save lives. All in all, its a tough one and very thought provoking...........