Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

There is a maxim which states: "Possession is nine tenths of the law". Once you jettisson the legitimacy under international law provided by the 1960 agreements, everything is up for grabs.

yeah, thats what a theif would say who just just nicked your car, I guess you would go along with that then, would you??

That is why you need the rule of law.

I thought the maxim meant that 90% of the rules of what Law is about pertain to possession ...

Not erroneously as you suggest, that if someone takes possession of something it becomes theirs justifiably at 90%

As Pantheman suggests .... only a thief would interpret it your way!

[Tim Drayton]

For the meaning of the idiom "Possession is nine tenths of the law", I would refer you to the following source:

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/Pos ... of+the+law

Some people are misconstruing my words. I want to see a settlement within the framework of international law. I am saying that if you talk about partition, you immediately lose all legitimacy under international law. The above maxim, I suggest, is very relevant. Neither the EU, nor anybody else, has the stomach to go to war against Turkey over Cyprus. Therefore, partition will legitimise what Turkey has taken by force, apart from any cosmetic concessions she cares to make, probably the return of Varosha.

I only see two options: negotiated reunion or partition that legitimises the status quo.

Once you jettison the rule of law, there are no more arguments about who has nicked whose car. Might is right. I am not arguing for this, just pointing out the danger inherent in the 82:18 argument as I see it.

[Oracle]

For the meaning of the idiom "Possession is nine tenths of the law", I would refer you to the following source:

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/Pos ... of+the+law

Some people are misconstruing my words. I want to see a settlement within the framework of international law. I am saying that if you talk about partition, you immediately lose all legitimacy under international law. The above maxim, I suggest, is very relevant. Neither the EU, nor anybody else, has the stomach to go to war against Turkey over Cyprus. Therefore, partition will legitimise what Turkey has taken by force, apart from any cosmetic concessions she cares to make, probably the return of Varosha.

I only see two options: negotiated reunion or partition that legitimises the status quo.

Once you jettison the rule of law, there are no more arguments about who has nicked whose car. Might is right. I am not arguing for this, just pointing out the danger inherent in the 82:18 argument as I see it.

You are selective Tim ... As I suggested the maxim relates to the sheer quantity of possession Laws ... but it has been misconstrued by the more nefarious elements down the years ....

Meanwhile, in 1616, Thomas Draxe, in his book of proverbs, Bibliotheca Scholastica Instructissima, shaves a couple points off the total: "Possession is nine points in the law." After this instance and maybe one other, this variant of the proverb was dormant until 1809, Geise says.

A problem with early versions of the proverb was that nobody was really sure what the ten or twelve points of the law were. Some proposed lists of points, failing to grasp that the proverb was almost certainly meant ironically – if possession is nine points, the points are 1. possession; 2. possession; 3. possession … you get the picture. Tom, in fact, has asked the more interesting question: what's the point that isn't possession? Nobody could satisfactorily answer that, either. No doubt it was confusion over the "points" that led to the modern version. As Geise puts it, "The jump … to the latest, and today by far the most prevalent form, possession is nine-tenths of the law, is logical. Unable to have a clear idea of what the legal points are that the original proverb could refer to, the proverb took on a more familiar form as a fraction: the implication of 'points' became superfluous."

From Science Advisory Board

[Nikitas]

Tims said:

"There is a maxim which states: "Possession is nine tenths of the law". Once you jettisson the legitimacy under international law provided by the 1960 agreements, everything is up for grabs."

And at such a point our other "motherland" Greece has clearly stated, in the words of former PM MItsotakis, that in such a case Greece will demand her full and proper portion of territory, on behalf of the GCs of course! And one thing Turkey wants desperately to avoid is more and legalised Greek presence on the island, for that would make Greece a Middle Eastern power, with the right to meddle in the area affairs and would enhance her strategic value. And this brings us to the huge amounts of money Turkey spends in holding extensive exercises in the sea between Cyprus and Greece, trying to prove she can isolate the two as and when she wants to.

The Turks are caught up in a nightmare of their own making.

All probable outcomes are like double edged knives.

[Tim Drayton]

Tims said:

"There is a maxim which states: "Possession is nine tenths of the law". Once you jettisson the legitimacy under international law provided by the 1960 agreements, everything is up for grabs."

And at such a point our other "motherland" Greece has clearly stated, in the words of former PM MItsotakis, that in such a case Greece will demand her full and proper portion of territory, on behalf of the GCs of course! And one thing Turkey wants desperately to avoid is more and legalised Greek presence on the island, for that would make Greece a Middle Eastern power, with the right to meddle in the area affairs and would enhance her strategic value. And this brings us to the huge amounts of money Turkey spends in holding extensive exercises in the sea between Cyprus and Greece, trying to prove she can isolate the two as and when she wants to.

The Turks are caught up in a nightmare of their own making.

All probable outcomes are like double edged knives.

Do you not feel that there is a chance the present round of negotiations could lead to something more acceptable for all concerned? I think talk of partition and who gets what percentage is premature.

[Nikitas]

Tim,

We have had partition and effective annexation of the north since 1974, at least that is how I read the situation in the north- the real power is the Turkish army, the money is Turkish Lira, budget planning is essentially a function of the Turkish finance ministry.

By comparison the south has become totally independent of Greece and politically mature after 1974. It is easy to forget that the system survived the disaster of 1974 without losing one single individual to starvation or civil unrest and has made a full recovery without direct Greek help. That is proof of political maturity.

After listening carefully to TC politicians in Friday's RIKSAT report by Gennaris, it is obvious that Turkish dominance in the north has prevented TC politicians and the system as a whole from maturing. It seems unlikely that TCs will be able to break the Turkish stranglehold and assert their function as leaders of the TCs in a few weeks.

I am not optimistic about the outcome not because of the form, BBF or other, but because the TCs cannot imagine a solution in which Turkey is not given a role in the future. In other words TCs cannot envisage a truly independent Cyprus which is what the south has been since 1974. So ironically, the south will have to curtail its independence, which it has had since 1974, to accomodate the insecurities of the TCs. If that happens Greece will have to be given the same role as Turkey to keep things balanced and voila! we are back at 1960 with one stroke with both motherlands playing the same games of the past.

It is amazing that TCs cannot understand that when you have the mainland armies legally present on the island these armies will have to plan for all kinds of contingencies. That is what armies do. And they will draw up plans of how they will attack each other and all sorts of what if scenarios in which they will draw elements of each community. That is how we started on this process of conflict. Surely partition is preferable!

So it may be premature to discuss outright partition, as a solution, but since we have been living it for the last 34 years we have to ask if the solution will be better or not.