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US 'planned to test nerve gas on diggers' - for milti

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US 'planned to test nerve gas on diggers' - for milti

Postby boomerang » Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:55 am

US 'planned to test nerve gas on diggers'

SUNDAY websiteTop secret US military plans to test deadly nerve gas by dropping it on soldiers in a remote Queensland rainforest during the Cold War have been uncovered in Australian Government archives.

Newly declassified Australian Defence Department and Prime Minister’s office files show that the United States was strongly pushing the Government for tests on Australian soil of two of the most deadly chemical weapons ever developed, VX and GB — better known as Sarin — nerve gas.

The plan, which is disclosed for the first time on tomorrow’s SUNDAY program on Nine, called for 200 mainly Australian combat troops to be aerially bombed and sprayed with the chemical weapons — with all but a handful of the soldiers to be kept in the dark about the "full details" of the tests.

A former senior official with then Prime Minister Harold Holt, Mr Peter Bailey, tells the program that as far as he knows the tests never went ahead but the planning was very advanced.

He admitted the whole operation was to be kept secret because use of such weapons was almost certainly illegal under international law at the time.

"The idea that we could actually… that the Australians could countenance such an activity is …unacceptable," University of NSW toxicologist Professor Chris Winder said.

He says even a fraction of a drop of either chemical on exposed skin could have been fatal and Cold War fears that communist Chinese or Russian attackers might have used such weapons in a third world war "doesn’t justify it now and I don’t think it justified it then".

The files show that in July 1962 the then-US defence secretary Robert McNamara wrote in secret to the Australian Defence Department suggesting joint testing of chemical weapons "on a classified basis without a public release by either country".

In early 1963 a survey team of Australian and US scientists reviewed sites in Australia for chemical warfare tests, suggesting the remote Iron Range rainforest near Lockhart River in far north Queensland as one such location.

The request caused consternation in Canberra, with senior Defence bureaucrats clearly opposed to the use of nerve gas, but, as former senior Prime Ministerial policy advisor Peter Bailey recalls: "I heard that many times in Cabinet meetings that if they weren’t pretty good and pretty faithful to the Americans we would be dumped.

"We had already been dumped with the British east of Suez pullout so ministers were pretty aware this was our one main support and the red peril thing was still in people’s minds."

In October 1964 the Americans pushed the request again, this time insisting that the public should be fed a "cover story" to conceal the real nature of the tests: the documents show the public was to be told the tests were to test equipment or land reclamation in a jungle environment.

Low-flying military aircraft and spraying was to be explained away with the false claim that low-risk herbicides and insecticides were to be used in the testing but the cover stories were clearly untrue — he real chemicals to be used were two of the most deadly man-made substances, VX and GB nerve gas.

Former Democrat Senator Lyn Allison, who became aware of the existence of references to secret chemical weapons tests in Australia during her support of sick former veterans of the Maralinga nuclear bomb tests, told SUNDAY that her own attempts to get the full story on what went on with proposed testing were rebuffed several years ago.

She said Government files on the issue were still classified even now and the revelations in the new documents obtained by SUNDAY underlined the need for the Defence Department to finally disclose all that went on during the Cold War.

"To understand that Australia was still prepared to consider this proposal because of its relationship with the US I think needs proper examination," Senator Allison told the program.

"So all those documents should be released, there shouldn’t be any pussy footing around — t’s time for us to know what went on."

SUNDAY’s expose of Australia’s secret planning for chemical warfare airs at 7.30am Sunday on Nine.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=287260



If I may, with permission of course from kikapu... "If you can't fuck a friend, who can you fuck".??

I say wait for the swing in power...one day the yanks for sure will insist the turks get the hell outta Cyprus...

sooner than later the turks are gonna find out all about the yankie friendship...just ask Sadam...
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Postby RichardB » Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:19 pm

The Americans are only friends with who suits them at the time and for their benefit.

If there is nothing in it for them then see how long they are your best friend for.

People talk about Britains 'Special Relationship' with the USA.
How long would that remain special if we didnt bow to their demands and follow them into Iraq,Afganistan etc

Its not much fun being seen as a puppet
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Re: US 'planned to test nerve gas on diggers' - for milti

Postby Paphitis » Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:51 pm

boomerang wrote:
US 'planned to test nerve gas on diggers'

SUNDAY websiteTop secret US military plans to test deadly nerve gas by dropping it on soldiers in a remote Queensland rainforest during the Cold War have been uncovered in Australian Government archives.

Newly declassified Australian Defence Department and Prime Minister’s office files show that the United States was strongly pushing the Government for tests on Australian soil of two of the most deadly chemical weapons ever developed, VX and GB — better known as Sarin — nerve gas.

The plan, which is disclosed for the first time on tomorrow’s SUNDAY program on Nine, called for 200 mainly Australian combat troops to be aerially bombed and sprayed with the chemical weapons — with all but a handful of the soldiers to be kept in the dark about the "full details" of the tests.

A former senior official with then Prime Minister Harold Holt, Mr Peter Bailey, tells the program that as far as he knows the tests never went ahead but the planning was very advanced.

He admitted the whole operation was to be kept secret because use of such weapons was almost certainly illegal under international law at the time.

"The idea that we could actually… that the Australians could countenance such an activity is …unacceptable," University of NSW toxicologist Professor Chris Winder said.

He says even a fraction of a drop of either chemical on exposed skin could have been fatal and Cold War fears that communist Chinese or Russian attackers might have used such weapons in a third world war "doesn’t justify it now and I don’t think it justified it then".

The files show that in July 1962 the then-US defence secretary Robert McNamara wrote in secret to the Australian Defence Department suggesting joint testing of chemical weapons "on a classified basis without a public release by either country".

In early 1963 a survey team of Australian and US scientists reviewed sites in Australia for chemical warfare tests, suggesting the remote Iron Range rainforest near Lockhart River in far north Queensland as one such location.

The request caused consternation in Canberra, with senior Defence bureaucrats clearly opposed to the use of nerve gas, but, as former senior Prime Ministerial policy advisor Peter Bailey recalls: "I heard that many times in Cabinet meetings that if they weren’t pretty good and pretty faithful to the Americans we would be dumped.

"We had already been dumped with the British east of Suez pullout so ministers were pretty aware this was our one main support and the red peril thing was still in people’s minds."

In October 1964 the Americans pushed the request again, this time insisting that the public should be fed a "cover story" to conceal the real nature of the tests: the documents show the public was to be told the tests were to test equipment or land reclamation in a jungle environment.

Low-flying military aircraft and spraying was to be explained away with the false claim that low-risk herbicides and insecticides were to be used in the testing but the cover stories were clearly untrue — he real chemicals to be used were two of the most deadly man-made substances, VX and GB nerve gas.

Former Democrat Senator Lyn Allison, who became aware of the existence of references to secret chemical weapons tests in Australia during her support of sick former veterans of the Maralinga nuclear bomb tests, told SUNDAY that her own attempts to get the full story on what went on with proposed testing were rebuffed several years ago.

She said Government files on the issue were still classified even now and the revelations in the new documents obtained by SUNDAY underlined the need for the Defence Department to finally disclose all that went on during the Cold War.

"To understand that Australia was still prepared to consider this proposal because of its relationship with the US I think needs proper examination," Senator Allison told the program.

"So all those documents should be released, there shouldn’t be any pussy footing around — t’s time for us to know what went on."

SUNDAY’s expose of Australia’s secret planning for chemical warfare airs at 7.30am Sunday on Nine.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=287260



If I may, with permission of course from kikapu... "If you can't fuck a friend, who can you fuck".??

I say wait for the swing in power...one day the yanks for sure will insist the turks get the hell outta Cyprus...

sooner than later the turks are gonna find out all about the yankie friendship...just ask Sadam...


In all fairness, the Australian government would have never allowed this type of testing on Australian troops if it were to endanger any lives. Those chemical agents that you mention are very deadly and to contemplate bare skin exposure is ludicrous. If this testing was to proceed then any troops on the ground would be wearing full chemical protection and gas masks. Having said that, Australian troops have been exposed to chemicals such as Agent Orange in the Vietnam War. Australian troops were also exposed to nuclear fallout at Maralinga. But this was more a reflection of the Australian government at the time which was actively pursuing a nuclear capability of 100 or so atom bombs, with the full blessing of the USA. I may also point out that the Australian Government today has the ability to develop a nuclear capability in a matter of a couple of months. It chooses to not develop this capability at present because of it's policy and as a signatory to the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty which was ratified in Australia in 1973. Australia had the capability to develop nuclear weapons well before this was ratified.

Even today, Australian troops are exposed to various light chemicals in a gas chamber as part of their training. These chemicals are not lethal and troops are exposed for seconds until they rapidly don their protective gear. This is done to simulate the possibility of chemical attack as Australian troops as you already know are active in Iraq and Afghanistan.

You may also note that during the nuclear tests at Maralinga, conducted by the British, both British and Australian personnel were exposed and I believe none are alive today. Most died from various cancer diseases. Also, in the above article you can see that mainly Australian troops were to be exposed to this type of testing which also seems to insinuate that US troops would also be involved and exposed. This certainly would seem logical. And if the tests were to proceed, the troops on the ground will definitely be wearing their protective gear.
Last edited by Paphitis on Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby boomerang » Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:15 pm

Paphitis why re-invent the wheel?...we already got it anyway...no-one does so much back bending without getting something in return..So we signed the rights of making one away...thats all...

The point I was trying to make is that with the US is a need to need basis favouring the US...as always.

But to suggest such a plan in the first place is something else...
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Postby Paphitis » Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:34 pm

boomerang wrote:Paphitis why re-invent the wheel?...we already got it anyway...no-one does so much back bending without getting something in return..So we signed the rights of making one away...thats all...

The point I was trying to make is that with the US is a need to need basis favouring the US...as always.

But to suggest such a plan in the first place is something else...


If you are to argue certain aspects of Australian Foreign policy with regards to our involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan, I may agree with you with a certain degree of caution.

If you wish to argue that Australia has not been the beneficiary of it's close alliance with the US, you are in fact mistaken. Australia is privy to extremely sensitive US intelligence and also has received numerous technologies that are not readily available to anyone else. Cooperation is a 2 way street.

When Australia was pursuing a nuclear capability, the US had offered Australia 100 atom bombs. You may also note that Australia is still considering the purchase of the F22 Raptor. No other nation has been offered this type of stealth capability, not even any of the members of NATO.
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Postby miltiades » Sat Jul 05, 2008 3:13 pm

The correct date on that document was in fact April 1st 1962 not July !!
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