Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

Then what have you to say about our rights being ripped from us in 1963? what did the GC do wrong? why did they continue to discriminate against us? where did they go wrong? and what are they doing wrong to day with regards to finding a solution?

Lets us see what you have to say and how honest you can be for all to read or will you get again fob us off with some meaningless verbal diarrhea?

I for one could never have accepted the way the 1960 Constitution was written in the way it was, had I had the opportunity at that time. It was designed to create problems, and problems it did create. It had to be one of the most Racist, Undemocratic, and violations of Human Rights documents ever written as a form of a Constitution, until of course, the Annan Plan in 2004 for "peace". So needless to say, in order for the 1960 Constitution to work, and like all Constitutions, it needed changes from time to time, to make it work. Naturally, when the TC's said NO, it made matters worse which played into the hands of those who wanted Cyprus Partitioned, and whether the TC's withdrew from the RoC government or they were pushed out remains to be point of contention, but the end result was, it really did not matter which was the truth, because both sides by now had gotten what they wanted, a dysfunctional Independent country which was to set the stage for further misery and destruction, and misery and destruction is what we have gotten since. The biggest injustice for the TC's were from 1963 until 1974. The question remains to be answered is, who was committing these injustices on the TC community. Well, the answer is by both Makarios and Denktash, once again for their own selfish reasons.

Since 1974, if we are going to be honest, we will have to say that Denktash was not interested in peace as long as the Turkish Army was there to help him keep the divide at 37%-63% ratio. Neither were the TC's by and large, and even if they did, what could have they done, when Denktash and his cronies were controlling the lives of every TC in the north with the help of the Turkish Troops for the next 30 years in close isolation from the south. The only time any form of reconciliation with the GC's was brought to light, was because of the imminent admission of the RoC into the EU. This of course was going to be a threat to Turkey's future plans about her EU admission plans, as well as levelling the playing field for the RoC to tackle the occupation with diplomatic means, by having a veto power over Turkey, therefore this thread had to be dealt with before the RoC became a EU member, and the Annan Plan was born to solve the problem for Turkey and keep the partition plans for Denktash.

Today, as far as I can see, the GC's would like to have a settlement based on BBF, a True Federation as prescribed by the UN resolutions and not all the garbage that was in the Annan Plan that the TC's now want to adopt again. I know also, that great deal of the GC's would also like to have a Unitary Government (state) instead of BBF, and I have told you very long time ago, that this will not be possible any longer, hence the fact that I'm pushing for a more realistic option, specially for the TC's to have a state for the majority TC's in a True Federal RoC. But you can see for yourself for all the resistance that is coming from the north for a Fair and Just settlement under this plan of BBF. Instead they talk about separate citizenship's and seperate sovereignty and so on. So, if you ask me today who is an obstacle to peace, I would have to say the TC's. Tomorrow may well be a different story, but today is what it is.

Being part of the EU now, we really do not have a choice but to follow True Democracy, respecting Human Rights, and everyone treated equal politically as well as individually if we are to move forward with a settlement. Once these principles are accepted, then we can move forward for a settlement. Anything less than these principles will not be accepted by the EU, nor should they be accepted by any Cypriots. But not everyone wants a settlement as one country, but a partition such as yourself. You have been trying to get recognition since 1983 without any success, so now you would want to have an agreed partition. Some say "no, go to hell" and others say, "sure, at 82% 18%". We will have to wait and see what the present talks will produce, but those who believe, that if they can get the GC's to say another NO to another peace deal, will give them a recognition to the north is very much mistaken, and perhaps it is the reason as to why some in the north are making unreasonable demands for a settlement. I do not accept anyone will fall for those tricks anytime soon, so it's best that they get behind a True BBF settlement plans, so that we can elect a TC president for Cyprus one day, just as the blacks are about to elect one of their own to the White House. The important thing is to be an active participants for peace by all, despite the efforts of some rejectionists from both sides. There should be enough of the majority to want peace to bring about one. The majority of True Cypriots can determine the new course of Cyprus for the benefit for all Cypriots.

I have to say, Kikapu, that this is probably one of the best recap assessments I have ever come across, for the both the past and the present picture of Cyprus. It is lean, compact but so comprehensive. It is one of the most spherical and balanced assessments one can possibly read.

Thank you Kifeas.

Great praise from another GC you all think alike Kikapu must make you proud to know you project 100% the GC viewpoint that even Kifeas could find no fault.

I did not expect anything less from a Fascist Denktash NeoPartitionist prodigy such as yourself. I have answered your question that you have asked me. Now, tell me where I'm being pro GC's and anti TC's in my post.

The truth is, you can't, but being a "paid propagandist", you will try all the same, because that is your job. I rest my case with you for being a "paid propagandist". Funny thing is, when you wrote the quote below, you were not complaining of being a GC thing, until your boss gave you a kick in the ass to start Propagandising and not agreeing with my post.

Its an overall assessment but what I asked Kikapu to do was provide a TC viewpoint as what our concerns should be and what safeguards we should ask for in a BBF political equality solution. I know I am asking for the impossible but I am a TC and am concerned about GC domination over both the south and north in the future, how will we take steps to ensure that GCs are not allowed to control the whole island and stop them from pushing us to one side. If of course the GCs have no such intentions then these safeguards will become redundent if they have then they will obviously object.

[Viewpoint]

Answer the questions don't try to worm your way out with your verbal diarrhea, what should TCs ask for as safeguards, if you are a TC you should have some idea.

[repulsewarrior]

Answer the questions don't try to worm your way out with your verbal diarrhea, what should TCs ask for as safeguards, if you are a TC you should have some idea.

...see my Manifesto, where at the Federal Level a bicameral legislature is ruled by majority, having a neutral voting process, all citizens vote for a Turkish cypriot representative , and a greek representative for their riding in an equally divided Upper House which leads with its winning President (and Party), and an Independant which votes in a Lower House by concensus, allowing for sober second thought.

Fururistically this is an ideal mechanism for our democratic process because it uses our ethnicity as a check and balance to a demographic which favours one over the other today, but will surely be at the opposite extreme in the long term.

[repulsewarrior]

...yes, and I have discussed how enclaves will eliminate the "border" to define the territory, our island, instead with frontiers.

[Kikapu]

Answer the questions don't try to worm your way out with your verbal diarrhea, what should TCs ask for as safeguards, if you are a TC you should have some idea.

I have answered your question VP, which you did not like, because you do not want to hear the truth, because it does not fit into your "Propaganda Box", so now you want to ask more questions, different from the original. I have also in the past answered your above question so lets not waste too much time on this, because you will once again, not going to like what I say.

Lets simplify matters so that we can understand what the answers ought to be. You will first have to accept, that any "safeguards" that you ask for the TC's has to conform to Universally accepted principles of True Democracy, Human Rights, and non Racist formula, which the EU will not accept anything else to the contrary. So the question for you to decide is, are you willing to accept those principles or not. If the answer is NO, then there is no point answering your question one more time, because you will label it as a "GC point of view" and not the point of view of Universally accepted Principles on True Democracy.

But just to make it interesting, why don't you tell us what "safeguards" should be put in place for the TC's with those Universally accepted Principles. The 1960 Constitution and the Annan Plan 2004 definitely did not conform to those Principles, but at the time, Cyprus was not in the EU, but now that we are, that is the reason as to why any new "safeguards" will need to fulfill the EU requirements. So, tell us VP, how would the new "safeguards" will look now that does not violate any one's Democratic and Human Rights.?

Be careful now, because if you answer honestly, I too may call it a "GC view plan" to you.!!

[Kikapu]

i have very bad memorable hard times end of 1963 in K. Kaymakli (Omorfida) i was prisoner under that flag of yours at age of 12

Where were you a prisoner in 1963 Soyer..??

I was takeing from K. Kaymakli believe date was 24 or 25/12/1963 midday to noon travel to one old monastery not to far from Nicosia where they keep as for some days until British solders force G/Cs EOKA to cease fire and then with RAF trucks most of as turn back to Nicosia Turkish zone, some never did turn up, and never will.

For asking me this i take that you also had some involvement there. 21/12/63 evening EOKA begin killing Turks in Nicosia then they notice that about 10.000 G/Cs was cut of in Trachonas in order to have access to them EOKA choose Kumsal region where they kill mother and three children in bahroom that attack was unsuccessful for EOKA and Kalamaras, so they commence attack on Omorfita from two different direction one from Kaymakli to Omorfita center and the other Turkish primary school direction led by Nikos Samson . Soon Turks accept that it was impossible to stop this bloodthirsty animals/murderers with few shotguns. so they begin to escape to Nicosia direction but by then Samson was finish with school plus Omorfita police station and closed completely Nicosia way. On one side Samson west side Trachonas and east was Kaimakli only one direction open for as was Mandres, many people with help of my school teacher Huseyin Ruso manage to cross over bypass which was heavily under gunfire from Kaimakli it was still couple hundred people left when brave Turk H. Ruso shot dead and escape become impossible. Greeks start gathering people outside futbol club and there start cheap victory show of Nikos Samson and second group leader which i am not sure his identity, someone told me recently that he was expresident of yours Papa i don't know how true, years gone by and people has change.

For asking me this i take that you also had some involvement there.

Soyer,

I know your English is somewhat limited in expressing yourself very clearly, and I'm not picking on you because of it, but I would like to know just what you meant with the above statement.

How many of you were kept as prisoners at the "Old Monastery" Soyer.??

Soyer, are the above detailed information that you gave are your recollections of what happened or did you read them from somewhere, or were they told to you by others.??

Soyer, you say you are from Kücük Kaymakli and back in 1963, you said you were 12 years old, so your memory should be pretty good, so let me ask you a question. Sometime in 1962/63, something very bad happened to a little girl on the way home from school. Do you know what that was by any chance.??

Be careful Soyer Kikapu will take anything you have to say twist it up, ridicule you, call you a liar and then regurgitated in a way that will suit his GC viewpoint.

I'm still waiting for his answers.??

[Viewpoint]

Answer the questions don't try to worm your way out with your verbal diarrhea, what should TCs ask for as safeguards, if you are a TC you should have some idea.

I have answered your question VP, which you did not like, because you do not want to hear the truth, because it does not fit into your "Propaganda Box", so now you want to ask more questions, different from the original. I have also in the past answered your above question so lets not waste too much time on this, because you will once again, not going to like what I say.

Lets simplify matters so that we can understand what the answers ought to be. You will first have to accept, that any "safeguards" that you ask for the TC's has to conform to Universally accepted principles of True Democracy, Human Rights, and non Racist formula, which the EU will not accept anything else to the contrary. So the question for you to decide is, are you willing to accept those principles or not. If the answer is NO, then there is no point answering your question one more time, because you will label it as a "GC point of view" and not the point of view of Universally accepted Principles on True Democracy.

But just to make it interesting, why don't you tell us what "safeguards" should be put in place for the TC's with those Universally accepted Principles. The 1960 Constitution and the Annan Plan 2004 definitely did not conform to those Principles, but at the time, Cyprus was not in the EU, but now that we are, that is the reason as to why any new "safeguards" will need to fulfill the EU requirements. So, tell us VP, how would the new "safeguards" will look now that does not violate any one's Democratic and Human Rights.?

Be careful now, because if you answer honestly, I too may call it a "GC view plan" to you.!!

Verbal diarrhea yet again just so that you do not address the issue at hand, cut to the chase if you are a TC you will have concerns and fears and want safeguards in place that will ensure we are not disregarded as was the case in the past or dominated by GCs numerical advantage. It is your chance to show everyone that you are a TC and do understand some of our concerns lets see what you will put forward, my ideas are well know its yours that are questionable not from a GC viewpoint which is all you have been displaying but from the stance of a TC who has valid concerns due to past experiences. As for the EU derogations are they key, the EU allowed them to many other countries eg Malta so I am 100% certain that if we agree they to will allow anything that falls outside the box.

[Kikapu]

Answer the questions don't try to worm your way out with your verbal diarrhea, what should TCs ask for as safeguards, if you are a TC you should have some idea.

I have answered your question VP, which you did not like, because you do not want to hear the truth, because it does not fit into your "Propaganda Box", so now you want to ask more questions, different from the original. I have also in the past answered your above question so lets not waste too much time on this, because you will once again, not going to like what I say.

Lets simplify matters so that we can understand what the answers ought to be. You will first have to accept, that any "safeguards" that you ask for the TC's has to conform to Universally accepted principles of True Democracy, Human Rights, and non Racist formula, which the EU will not accept anything else to the contrary. So the question for you to decide is, are you willing to accept those principles or not. If the answer is NO, then there is no point answering your question one more time, because you will label it as a "GC point of view" and not the point of view of Universally accepted Principles on True Democracy.

But just to make it interesting, why don't you tell us what "safeguards" should be put in place for the TC's with those Universally accepted Principles. The 1960 Constitution and the Annan Plan 2004 definitely did not conform to those Principles, but at the time, Cyprus was not in the EU, but now that we are, that is the reason as to why any new "safeguards" will need to fulfill the EU requirements. So, tell us VP, how would the new "safeguards" will look now that does not violate any one's Democratic and Human Rights.?

Be careful now, because if you answer honestly, I too may call it a "GC view plan" to you.!!

Verbal diarrhea yet again just so that you do not address the issue at hand, cut to the chase if you are a TC you will have concerns and fears and want safeguards in place that will ensure we are not disregarded as was the case in the past or dominated by GCs numerical advantage. It is your chance to show everyone that you are a TC and do understand some of our concerns lets see what you will put forward, my ideas are well know its yours that are questionable not from a GC viewpoint which is all you have been displaying but from the stance of a TC who has valid concerns due to past experiences. As for the EU derogations are they key, the EU allowed them to many other countries eg Malta so I am 100% certain that if we agree they to will allow anything that falls outside the box.

I don't need to prove anything VP. Lets just say that I can get a Original Birth Certificate from the RoC to prove it and not an imitation one from the "trnc", which I have one of those also by the way, but I doubt whether you can even get one for yourself, to show that you are even a Cypriot.

No, no more only you asking question for others to answer. You tell us what "safeguards" you will ask for that complies with Universally accepted Principles of Democracy. The EU is not going to allow Racist, Undemocratic and violations of Human Rights just to give the TC's "safeguards" at any price, all the while violating the above rules, or else they would have allowed Turkey into the EU already, if those violations were acceptable. I don't know what violations Malta was allowed to carry out that the EU turned a blind eye to, so perhaps you can tell us in on these violations. Why do you think the EU is sitting on in the settlement meetings, is to make sure that the EU Principles are not violated. I say bring on any number of "safeguards" that you need for the TC's, but do so in the boundaries of non Racist, non Undemocratic, and non violations of Human Rights, so lets see them. If you want "safeguards" outside these boundaries as described above, then they are very easy to ask for. Just include the Annan Plan 2004 and you have all the "safeguards" you want.!!

[Viewpoint]

Answer the questions don't try to worm your way out with your verbal diarrhea, what should TCs ask for as safeguards, if you are a TC you should have some idea.

I have answered your question VP, which you did not like, because you do not want to hear the truth, because it does not fit into your "Propaganda Box", so now you want to ask more questions, different from the original. I have also in the past answered your above question so lets not waste too much time on this, because you will once again, not going to like what I say.

Lets simplify matters so that we can understand what the answers ought to be. You will first have to accept, that any "safeguards" that you ask for the TC's has to conform to Universally accepted principles of True Democracy, Human Rights, and non Racist formula, which the EU will not accept anything else to the contrary. So the question for you to decide is, are you willing to accept those principles or not. If the answer is NO, then there is no point answering your question one more time, because you will label it as a "GC point of view" and not the point of view of Universally accepted Principles on True Democracy.

But just to make it interesting, why don't you tell us what "safeguards" should be put in place for the TC's with those Universally accepted Principles. The 1960 Constitution and the Annan Plan 2004 definitely did not conform to those Principles, but at the time, Cyprus was not in the EU, but now that we are, that is the reason as to why any new "safeguards" will need to fulfill the EU requirements. So, tell us VP, how would the new "safeguards" will look now that does not violate any one's Democratic and Human Rights.?

Be careful now, because if you answer honestly, I too may call it a "GC view plan" to you.!!

Verbal diarrhea yet again just so that you do not address the issue at hand, cut to the chase if you are a TC you will have concerns and fears and want safeguards in place that will ensure we are not disregarded as was the case in the past or dominated by GCs numerical advantage. It is your chance to show everyone that you are a TC and do understand some of our concerns lets see what you will put forward, my ideas are well know its yours that are questionable not from a GC viewpoint which is all you have been displaying but from the stance of a TC who has valid concerns due to past experiences. As for the EU derogations are they key, the EU allowed them to many other countries eg Malta so I am 100% certain that if we agree they to will allow anything that falls outside the box.

I don't need to prove anything VP. Lets just say that I can get a Original Birth Certificate from the RoC to prove it and not an imitation one from the "trnc", which I have one of those also by the way, but I doubt whether you can even get one for yourself, to show that you are even a Cypriot.

No, no more only you asking question for others to answer. You tell us what "safeguards" you will ask for that complies with Universally accepted Principles of Democracy. The EU is not going to allow Racist, Undemocratic and violations of Human Rights just to give the TC's "safeguards" at any price, all the while violating the above rules, or else they would have allowed Turkey into the EU already, if those violations were acceptable. I don't know what violations Malta was allowed to carry out that the EU turned a blind eye to, so perhaps you can tell us in on these violations. Why do you think the EU is sitting on in the settlement meetings, is to make sure that the EU Principles are not violated. I say bring on any number of "safeguards" that you need for the TC's, but do so in the boundaries of non Racist, non Undemocratic, and non violations of Human Rights, so lets see them. If you want "safeguards" outside these boundaries as described above, then they are very easy to ask for. Just include the Annan Plan 2004 and you have all the "safeguards" you want.!!

Stop bullshitting and answer the original questions from the stance of a TC and not a GC, you answer a question with a question dont you know thats rude didnt your mother teach you anything.

The AP was rubber stamped by the EU.

[Kikapu]

Stop bullshitting and answer the original questions from the stance of a TC and not a GC, you answer a question with a question dont you know thats rude didnt your mother teach you anything.

The AP was rubber stamped by the EU.

I have already answer your original question, which you did not like, therefore I have met my obligations to you, so now you answer mine.

That all it was, just a "Rubber stamp", because Cyprus was not in the EU at the time. The question is, will they "Rubber Stamp" it now. I very much doubt it.!

If you want me to answer you silly question from purely from a TC point of view and not take into considerations of Universally accepted Principles on Human Rights, True Democracy and Racism, then use the Annan Plan 2004 for the "safeguards" you want. You don't need me to repeat what is written so "professionally" in the AP, do you.??

I personally do not approve of the AP 2004.

That should answer your question once and for all on the subject of "safeguards".