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Social Experiment - Freedom of Speech and Racism!

Feel free to talk about anything that you want.

Postby Feisty » Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:31 pm

Paphitis wrote:
Feisty wrote:....and to Richard B who seems to think that only Cypriot people are real people and even those only the ones who live in villages, why is it that most of the Cypriots who live in England choose London?


Generally speaking, the migrant Cypriots in the UK, Australia, and USA are of working class. They worked very hard on production lines and what not to better the living standards of their family. Many started with 1 suitcase and the clothes on their backs. Many were also refugees fleeing from their motherland out of necessity for fear of their lives. These are real people.

And how many times did they have to endure the indignity of being told to learn the English language and "assimilate" into British culture? How many times were they called "dirty wogs"? Now that you are receiving a small dose of your own medicine, you may understand how it feels.


Whatever you say to me isn't a 'dose of my own medicine'. in any way shape or form. I respect human beings whatever their race, religion or colour.
As I'm married to a black Egyptian muslim I know all about racism and bigotry and you are the first person in all my years ever to accuse me of being either thank you.
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Postby SSBubbles » Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:38 pm

Paphitis wrote:
SSBubbles wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Feisty wrote:I'm sorry but a lot of you speak as though the Cyprus problem should consume our every waking moment. Well it doesn't and never will. Whilst understanding it's close to your hearts I'm afraid that it isn't many others', Cypriots as well as ex-pats. While it's effects are still on-going for a lot of you, for the average person it is an incident that happened 34 years ago and life has moved forward.


To you all I can say is that if you choose our country as your residence, then you can assimilate by learning our customs, and language. You could also appreciate our tiny country's environmental issues, and political problems. Assimilate into Cypriot culture or nick off! Is that not what many of you use to say to migrants in the UK. Are you a hypocrite?




NO!
I am learning Greek and I embrace your culture even more via the Cypriots I have met, the food and wine I partake; my very slow understanding of your 'problem' especially via this Forums' pages. I have visited many of your churches and I abide by your laws and I do my damn best to save water, all the while adding to your economy (We are talking Cyprus and not Oz I take it!?)

You will always have the 'black sheep' group of people (all nationalities) who will do their 'own thing' regardless, therefore you cannot force these few to integrate if they are not willing!

You have to stop tarring all people with the same brush and stop using the age old 'If you do not like it get out' quote. It is not going to happen here, or anywhere else unless the laws that govern immigrants change - drastically!! (IMO anyway!)


I sincerely hope that the views that I have expressed do not offend anyone as that is not my intent. It is always good that these issues are discussed as I do sense some double standards. I do not wish to generalise and tar a particular group and if offence was caused then I duely apologise.

I congratulate you for making an effort and embracing Cypriot culture. The mere fact that some actually make an effort is good enough for me. If only everyone did the same.


You did not offend me though you may have others with your 'over-generalisation'

You asked a question - I gave an honest answer - simple!

BTW, how was the self-imposed exile? Glad to be back?
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Postby Paphitis » Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:53 pm

Feisty wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Feisty wrote:I'm sorry but a lot of you speak as though the Cyprus problem should consume our every waking moment. Well it doesn't and never will. Whilst understanding it's close to your hearts I'm afraid that it isn't many others', Cypriots as well as ex-pats. While it's effects are still on-going for a lot of you, for the average person it is an incident that happened 34 years ago and life has moved forward.


To you all I can say is that if you choose our country as your residence, then you can assimilate by learning our customs, and language. You could also appreciate our tiny country's environmental issues, and political problems. Assimilate into Cypriot culture or nick off! Is that not what many of you use to say to migrants in the UK. Are you a hypocrite?


Why is it you never read properly? I never said that the problem wasn't appreciated, I said that it didn't consume people's everyday lives and that goes for most Cypriots as well as ex-pats.
As for appreciating environmental issues I don't it's ex-pats washing their drives etc and using water like it was going out of fashion.
ps. I haven't chosen Cyprus as my country of residence yet and have certainly never said that anyone should integrate. The fact is that people don't integrate with different cultures (in general) whoever they are. As Magnus said above, people gravitate to what is comfortable and that is to their own kind (for want of a better word). Also, in general, people don't want immigrants to integrate really. People's social circles revolve round just that.


Unfortunately, even the majority of Cypriots are not consumed with their political problem which threatens the whole nation. In many ways, materialism and selfishness has gripped many.

Personally, I do not beleive that anyone should be forced to integrate. I am just exposing certain double standards.
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Postby Feisty » Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:00 pm

I understand what you are saying but unfortunately you can't impose things on people. As in Australia where you are forced to vote. It doesn't make people any more interested in what's going on or make those unable to, to understand more.
As long as things don't affect people's daily lives, most are un-interested. I grew up when the IRA were coming and bombing English cities killing indiscriminately. I didn't then, or now, understand the issues and quite frankly haven't the time in my life to immerse myself in the world's problems. I'm sure the Cypriot immigrants or any others in England were no more interested in those problems than I was. Of course, had a member of my family been affected I'm sure I would both know more and be more interested.
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Postby Paphitis » Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:05 pm

Feisty wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Feisty wrote:....and to Richard B who seems to think that only Cypriot people are real people and even those only the ones who live in villages, why is it that most of the Cypriots who live in England choose London?


Generally speaking, the migrant Cypriots in the UK, Australia, and USA are of working class. They worked very hard on production lines and what not to better the living standards of their family. Many started with 1 suitcase and the clothes on their backs. Many were also refugees fleeing from their motherland out of necessity for fear of their lives. These are real people.

And how many times did they have to endure the indignity of being told to learn the English language and "assimilate" into British culture? How many times were they called "dirty wogs"? Now that you are receiving a small dose of your own medicine, you may understand how it feels.


Whatever you say to me isn't a 'dose of my own medicine'. in any way shape or form. I respect human beings whatever their race, religion or colour.
As I'm married to a black Egyptian muslim I know all about racism and bigotry and you are the first person in all my years ever to accuse me of being either thank you.


Then you can start respecting Cypriots by not treating them with disrespect and contempt especially when they did not offend you. On this forum you will not be deleted for no reason.
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Re: Social Experiment - Freedom of Speech and Racism!

Postby denizaksulu » Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:09 pm

Paphitis wrote:The forum has had considerable debate on issues of free speech lately. I start this new thread to encourage further debate about the important issue and to also touch on the taboo subject of racism.

Recently, I and others made a short appearance on another forum. Our agenda was not to offend but to engage that particular forum in a social experiment. Sadly, the forum in question failed the test by not identifying any underlying issues or at least approach the situation with humor.

On this forum I had posted the following:

"Hello my colonial masters,

I am another new member from the CF who has only recently discovered this splendid forum. I had been a member at CF for about 2 years. The CF is a bit too heavy. Too many political discussions about the Cyprus Problem.

But since I discovered this site, I do not think I can go back. You all seem so splendidly friendly. Why discuss that silly Cyprus Problem when we can talk about the really important issues such as Animals and Animal Welfare, Health and Fitness, Cyprus Cost of Living, Restaurants and Bars, Home and Garden, Going Out, Buying Property and my all time favorite - Food and Recipes. Oh yes, sometimes I get in the mood to whack on the apron and cook up a storm. So I look forward to sharing a few recipes with you splendid folk

I am afraid that the CF has become a little too heavy for my overly delicate and sensitive nature. Thank heavens for this forum. I mean what a jolly good life saver. I might even find the forum very useful when I decide to move to Cyprus. So I will be looking for useful tips on where to buy a property complete with a swimming pool, so that I can have an endless supply of water. Useful tips on pool maintenance will also be welcome.

Thank you all. "


The above post could be deemed as rather sarcastic, but the ulterior aim was to test many things as outlined below. The readers unfortunately failed to comprehend or identify the underlining social tests, which is quite sad.

Now, the above post was a social experiment of sorts. Sadly, the way it was dealt with seems to indicate the severe non existence of humor. It made myself and others appreciate the clinical, bitchy and bitter nature of that forum's participants. Others may have dealt with the post in a different manner and countered it with a bit of humor. I know that Australians, Cypriots etc are very famous for "taking the piss" and laughing at themselves. Why were these qualities not prevalent at this forum? Does this reveal a sense of insecurity?

Even posts about philosophy met the axe! Was this because they were posted by Cypriots that had migrated from CF and engaged them in not so trivial banter?

Does this indicate a perception of being "beyond reproach" and being superior to the indigenous Cypriots?

Does it indicate a violation against freedom of speech and expression which is something we are blessed with at CF, thanks to Admin.

Does it indicate a degree of shallowness by avoiding cutting edge issues and discussing issues of triviality such as "pool maintenance" at a time when Cyprus is drastically rationing the precious resource?

Does it indicate that certain individuals do not care or appreciate the drastic problems faced by the island?

Have I and others identified a source of bigotry?

Many years ago, when many migrants were flooding into Australia, the immigrants had to face the indignity of racial victimisation in a conservative young Anglo Saxon society. These migrants congregated in certain suburbs and generally stuck together due to language and cultural similarities and as a comfort zone against their insecurities of being in a foreign country. These days, this racism has dissipated and these immigrants have now more or less assimilated into Australian culture. The new wave of migrants from Iraq and Afghanistan are now suffering the same indignities from the Anglo Saxon society and also from second and third generation migrants!

In Cyprus we are seeing the same thing with migrants searching for a better "life style," congregating in their own ghettos, mainly in Pafos. Are some migrants avoiding the experience of Cypriot culture?

Do the indigenous locals have a right to express their concerns against these ghettos and request upon certain individuals to "assimilate", as was experienced by migrants in Australia, USA and UK?

Should Cypriots be irritated with the aesthetic poor architecture of many developments catering to the individuals in question, who are searching for a better lifestyle?

Have many traditional Cypriot villages been destroyed by these developments?

Are certain individuals treating the indigenous Cypriots with a certain degree of contempt and disrespect in their own country?

Are these individuals racist?

It will be very interesting to read your views.

DISCLAIMER: THE INTENT OF THE ABOVE POST IS TO ENCOURAGE SERIOUS DEBATE ABOUT CERTAIN ISSUES. IT WAS NOT INTENDED TO OFFEND OR TO GENERALISE AGAINST ANY CERTAIN GROUPS OF INDIVIDUALS. DISCLAIMER # ABC7224787XYZ.



Re Bafidis, I did read your letter on the CL. I never for a mo did I believe you had left the CF. So no welcome from me and glad you are still here.

My short stay there was eventful, and I had come to the conclusion that ex CF members were not at all welcome there.

After one or two attempts at getting info on moving to Cyprus (one gentleman suggested Pissouri) all my posts were deleted.

If you ever want freedom of speech, CF is your place.

I also found the topics there more suited for the ex-pat S.C. Brigade (Senior Citizen). Boring to say the least. They need to get a life.

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Postby Paphitis » Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:10 pm

[/quote] BTW, how was the self-imposed exile? Glad to be back?[quote]

Maybe. Not quite sure.

Since 2 weeks ago, this forum has gone all weird! A bit like "The Adams Family" :?
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Postby SSBubbles » Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:12 pm

Paphitis wrote:
BTW, how was the self-imposed exile? Glad to be back?

Maybe. Not quite sure.

Since 2 weeks ago, this forum has gone all weird! A bit like "The Adams Family" :?



Hey! I like the Addams Family! :lol: :lol:
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Postby Feisty » Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:13 pm

Paphitis wrote:
Feisty wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Feisty wrote:....and to Richard B who seems to think that only Cypriot people are real people and even those only the ones who live in villages, why is it that most of the Cypriots who live in England choose London?


Generally speaking, the migrant Cypriots in the UK, Australia, and USA are of working class. They worked very hard on production lines and what not to better the living standards of their family. Many started with 1 suitcase and the clothes on their backs. Many were also refugees fleeing from their motherland out of necessity for fear of their lives. These are real people.

And how many times did they have to endure the indignity of being told to learn the English language and "assimilate" into British culture? How many times were they called "dirty wogs"? Now that you are receiving a small dose of your own medicine, you may understand how it feels.


Whatever you say to me isn't a 'dose of my own medicine'. in any way shape or form. I respect human beings whatever their race, religion or colour.
As I'm married to a black Egyptian muslim I know all about racism and bigotry and you are the first person in all my years ever to accuse me of being either thank you.


Then you can start respecting Cypriots by not treating them with disrespect and contempt especially when they did not offend you. On this forum you will not be deleted for no reason.


Excuse me??? Disrespect and contempt? Where have I done that?
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Postby Magnus » Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:14 pm

Paphitis wrote:
BTW, how was the self-imposed exile? Glad to be back?

Maybe. Not quite sure.

Since 2 weeks ago, this forum has gone all weird! A bit like "The Adams Family" :?


The Adams Family aren't weird! They're creepy and they're kooky, mysterious and spooky. They're altogether ooky...

Sorry, I couldn't resist :lol:
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