Cyprus-Forum.com

[humanist]

To be honest Miltiades I couldn't give a hoot what they do in Turkey. Thats up the to the Turks to decide what they wear and how they treat men women and children.

[CanDiaz]

Your trying to tell women what to wear? You must be single or gay.

[Kifeas]

Tim, as you know, "constituent" in English may take two types of interpretations. One means a "component" (ingredient,) i.e. it has a passive connotation; and the other means "founding," i.e. it has an active (energetic) connotation!

Now, in our case, the two leaders (Talat and Christofias) are neither meeting and negotiating with each other as the presidents of any two (already existing) "constituent states," nor do they negotiate as the presidents of the RoC on the one part and the "TRNC" on the other part. As it is well known, accepted and even stipulated in the UN resolutions, they negotiate as the leaders of the two communities, as they were acknowledged and defined in the 1960 constitution, and they were negotiating on the issue of Cyprus, on this basis, since 1964. This is an undeniable reality! Therefore, when they speak about a partnership, in the joined communiqué, they only speak about the partnership between the two communities that already exists in notion, and which in theory established the 1960 RoC.

Now, this partnership (between the two communities -since that is the capacity under which they negotiate) will take a new shape and will produce a new set up, which will among other things (as the communiqué says) will include one federal government and two constituent states. Therefore, both the federal government and the two states, will be the by-products of this (revised) partnership agreement between the two communities, and not the other way around, as the Turks wrongfully interpret it to mean. The Turks interpret the joined communiqué to mean that both the partnership and the federal government itself, will be the by-products of the agreement between the two constituent (which they translate into founding) states. Such an interpretation cannot possibly derive from the way the joined communiqué was syntaxed, therefore the connotation of the word "constituent" cannot possibly mean "founding" but only "component!" It is simple English grammar and syntax, really!

I can only quote from the text of a document submitted by the UBP to Talat with reference to the current peace process:

source:
http://www.kibrispostasi.com/index.php/ ... /Ana_sayfa

c. İki Devletlilik ( “ Annan Planı’ndaki Constituent States- “ Oluşturucu Devlet” bizi tatmin etmemektedir, çünkü bunlar egemenliğe sahip devletler değildir; “Founding States- Kurucu Devlet” ibaresi daha yerinde olur);

[The existence of two states (The "Constituent States" of the Annan Plan do not satisfy us because they are not states which possess sovereignty; the expression "Founding States" is more appropriate.)]

I think this points to an awareness of the distinction you are drawing.

UBP, Denktash’s DP, the Turkish military and the rest of the hard-core Kemalsits in the Turkish FM, want us (GCs) and the rest of the world to silently accept the distorted Turkish historical standpoint (theorization) which claims that the illegally occupied north has “legitimately” become of a “TC” (Turkish) inherent ownership, and therefore it “rightfully” should have the capacity to sovereignly enter into a partnership agreement as a separate territorial entity, in forming with the “south” (GC administration as they regard it) a joined central government in a sort of a confederal deal.

The reason they want us to accept this type of solution is because they want to secure in perpetuity that the north is held and regarded of the sole and exclusive ownership of the Turks (i.e. the current “citizens” of the “TRNC,”) who are the only people that posses the inherent constituent rights of that part of Cyprus, as if GCs have never existed as an indigenous population in that part of Cyprus. They aim, by wanting to eradicate the historical and heritage rights of the GC community, deriving from the north part of our country in which we existed for millenniums (even before the appearance of Turks in Cyprus;) to always maintain that the north is (inherently) a purely and exclusively Turkish land, by national ownership, and therefore they should have the absolute right to do whatever they please in and with that part of Cyprus. They even presented a constitution, that was included within the Anan plan for the TC constituent state, in which they imported kemalism (i.e. Turkish nationalism) in Cyprus and made it the institutionalized and guiding ideology of that part of Cyprus, in the expense and detriment of the GCs that would have chosen to return back to their ancestral lands after the solution. So much about the notorious Turkish nationalistic bulimia, which unfortunately the west cannot see for what it is in reality, i.e. a sickening neurotic disorder!

[Tim Drayton]

I take the point. All I am trying to do is show that the TCs are indeed making a linguistic distinction between a "constituent state / oluşturucu devlet” and a “founding state- kurucu devlet."

[Kifeas]

I take the point. All I am trying to do is show that the TCs are indeed making a linguistic distinction between a "constituent state / oluşturucu devlet” and a “founding state- kurucu devlet."

Well, if they are indeed making this distinction, why then in their English language press, both in Turkey and in the north, they speak of two "founding" states in the joined communique. Is it because their bulimic attitude has resulted in brainwashing and fanaticizing their people to such an extent, that they cannot afford now to tell them what the true merits of a solution can possibly be?

[Tim Drayton]

I wonder if I inhabit a parallel universe. The relevant section of the communique that I can find on the TRNC Public Information Office website reads as follows:

http://www.trncinfo.com/tanitmadairesi/ ... 260508.HTM

They reaffirmed their commitment to a bi-zonal, bi-communal federation with political equality, as defined by relevant Security Council resolutions. This partnership will have a Federal Government with a single international personality, as well as a Turkish Cypriot Constituent State and a Greek Cypriot Constituent State, which will be of equal status.

[Viewpoint]

mitiades have you not yet realized this is preferred to becoming a minority in a GC state run by GCs. We have that choice today TCs can move south whenever they wish but they dont ask yourself why?

VP, I wonder for how long you will continue beating up the bush, aimlessly; with ridiculous, unsubstantiated and untruthful claims that the choice the GCs are placing in front of the TCs, is one of “becoming a minority in a GC state run by GCs!” Aren’t you ashamed to lie so pathetically all the time in the forum? When will you at last get serious and real, and stop trying to imitate Goebbels in your propaganda tricks?

Isn't your aim a unitary state where TCs are just another minority left to the mercy of the majority luckily for you being the GCs without any community rights? Why dont you come clean and tell everyone exactly what you have in store for the TC people.

I would like everyone in this forum to make a note of what a liar and a misinforming propagandist VP has turned into!

VP says the following
“Isn't your aim a unitary state where TCs are just another minority left to the mercy of the majority luckily for you being the GCs without any community rights? Why don’t you come clean and tell everyone exactly what you have in store for the TC people”

And this is what the GC leader has agreed with Talat, only a month ago:
"They (two community leaders) reaffirmed their commitment to bi-zonal, bi-communal federation with political equality, as defined by relevant Security Council resolutions. This partnership will have a Federal Government with a single international personality, as well as a Turkish Cypriot Constituent State and a Greek Cypriot Constituent State, which will be of equal status."

I hope everyone can see now, how VP is lying to everybody in this forum.

PS: The correct translation in Turkish of the word "Constituent," as it evokes from and is used in the above text, is that of "bileşen;" and not "kurucu" (founding) as the Turks translate it into!

Do you personally support your leadership? if you do not are you representative of the majority of GCs?

Avoiding the question Kifeas?

[Kifeas]

VP, there is no point in me answering to people that I already caught and exposed to be insincere and to be lying deliberately! If you want an answer, you should first apologize for the lies you are consciously and systematically pumping in the forum!

[Viewpoint]

VP, there is no point in me answering to people that I already caught and exposed to be lying deliberately! If you want an answer, you should first apologize for the lies you are consciously and systematically pumping in the forum!

You ll have a long wait because I am not lying and by asking the above have exposed you for the lies you have been putting with regards to supporting your leadership, you have posted many times your rejection of Christofiyas and everything he stands for which does not coincide with what you want a unitary state with us as just another minority with community rights.

[halil]

I take the point. All I am trying to do is show that the TCs are indeed making a linguistic distinction between a "constituent state / oluşturucu devlet” and a “founding state- kurucu devlet."

Well, if they are indeed making this distinction, why then in their English language press, both in Turkey and in the north, they speak of two "founding" states in the joined communique. Is it because their bulimic attitude has resulted in brainwashing and fanaticizing their people to such an extent, that they cannot afford now to tell them what the true merits of a solution can possibly be?

give us the link .

TC's side always says this :bi-zonal, bi-communal federation with political equality and guarantees of the Turkey . many times Turkey and TC's side declare this .

here is the latest meeting summary came out prom Bayrak Television at 6 pm.
President Mehmet Ali Talat and Greek Cypriot Leader Demetris Christofias have discussed the issues of single sovereignty and citizenship which they agreed in principle.
Today’s meeting held within the framework of the 21st of March Agreement signed between the two leaders was the third since the election of Dimitris Christofias as the Greek Cypriot leader.

A statement read out by the UN Special Representative for Cyprus Taye Brooke –Zerihoun at the end of the 4 and half long hour meeting said that the two leaders met in a positive and cooperative atmosphere and undertook the first review of the work of the working groups and technical committees established to prepare the ground for full-fledged negotiations.

He noted that the leaders also agreed to meet again on the 25th of July when they will undertake the final review of the working groups and technical committees.

President Talat and Mr Christofias met at the residence of the UN Secretary General’s Special Representative for Cyprus Taye-Brook Zerihoun in the UN-controlled buffer zone.

Senior aides of the two leaders – Ozdil Nami and George Iacovou also attended today’s meeting.

The two sides set up 13 working groups and technical committees to prepare the basis for substantial talks with the aim of bringing about a comprehensive settlement to the Cyprus problem.

here is the interesting spot from Bayrak TV :
Prime Minister Ferdi Sabit Soyer said that his expectation out of today’s meeting between the two leaders was the removal of the international isolation of the Turkish Cypriot people.

Speaking during a visit today, Soyer also expressed the wish for joint cultural activities to be organized between the two communities.
He said that the BRT’s children’s choir should give a joint concert with the Greek Cypriot State Broadcasting Corporation(-RIK)