Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

mitiades have you not yet realized this is preferred to becoming a minority in a GC state run by GCs. We have that choice today TCs can move south whenever they wish but they dont ask yourself why?

VP, I wonder for how long you will continue beating up the bush, aimlessly; with ridiculous, unsubstantiated and untruthful claims that the choice the GCs are placing in front of the TCs, is one of “becoming a minority in a GC state run by GCs!” Aren’t you ashamed to lie so pathetically all the time in the forum? When will you at last get serious and real, and stop trying to imitate Goebbels in your propaganda tricks?

[Viewpoint]

mitiades have you not yet realized this is preferred to becoming a minority in a GC state run by GCs. We have that choice today TCs can move south whenever they wish but they dont ask yourself why?

VP, I wonder for how long you will continue beating up the bush, aimlessly; with ridiculous, unsubstantiated and untruthful claims that the choice the GCs are placing in front of the TCs, is one of “becoming a minority in a GC state run by GCs!” Aren’t you ashamed to lie so pathetically all the time in the forum? When will you at last get serious and real, and stop trying to imitate Goebbels in your propaganda tricks?

Isn't your aim a unitary state where TCs are just another minority left to the mercy of the majority luckily for you being the GCs without any community rights? Why dont you come clean and tell everyone exactly what you have in store for the TC people.

[halil]

Someone posted a picture of a Greek Cypriot woman making a traditional basket the other day, and SHE WORE A SCARF. So whats the big deal?? One rule for Greek Cypriots and another for Turkish women? Women should have a choice. Paranoia about Islamic plots both inside and outside Turkey are getting ridiculous.

Of course women and men should have a choice , however the Turkish courts ruled otherwise , if you read the report of the court rulings you will see how laughable the entire process has been.
Nothing whatsoever to do with G/C women wearing scarves , they can wear what ever pleases them in a true democracy, I think you misunderstood the contents of the court findings Tess , its about the Higher Turkish courts making the wearing of scarves at universities illegal !! Such is the mentality of the army influenced legislature , that they will spend months deliberating on such a trivial matter .
Let the T/Cs understand that absorbed by Turkey takes them back a century at least.

dear miltiades for a while it might be difficult for you to understand relationship between Turkey and TC's . İt will take time for you to understand .

we might have a cultural differences this a good part of the life . Turkish people from Turkey has think the world of TC's life . They are always wondering what a nice society we have .They are getting good lessons from us .

Yes we are complaining about them as well . like you do or other does for foreigner workers , they are cheap labours . i don!t blame them either , they have to get better living as well if it is not Cyprus it will be some where else like TC's goes to south for better wages if it wasn't south it might be England or Australia or othe places.

[miltiades]

Someone posted a picture of a Greek Cypriot woman making a traditional basket the other day, and SHE WORE A SCARF. So whats the big deal?? One rule for Greek Cypriots and another for Turkish women? Women should have a choice. Paranoia about Islamic plots both inside and outside Turkey are getting ridiculous.

Of course women and men should have a choice , however the Turkish courts ruled otherwise , if you read the report of the court rulings you will see how laughable the entire process has been.
Nothing whatsoever to do with G/C women wearing scarves , they can wear what ever pleases them in a true democracy, I think you misunderstood the contents of the court findings Tess , its about the Higher Turkish courts making the wearing of scarves at universities illegal !! Such is the mentality of the army influenced legislature , that they will spend months deliberating on such a trivial matter .
Let the T/Cs understand that absorbed by Turkey takes them back a century at least.

mitiades have you not yet realized this is preferred to becoming a minority in a GC state run by GCs. We have that choice today TCs can move south whenever they wish but they dont ask yourself why?

As one who has stated many times in the past that minorities and majorities are of no importance in the 21st century where Cyprus is a member of the EU and where within the EU Cyprus IS A MINORITY.
I also stated many times and you will recall , that my ambition is to see a T/C President of a united Cyprus , one that would represent his motherlands' interests and the motherland is none other than Cyprus. Such an event would indeed herald a new beginning for Cyprus. An EU member in a modern world that goes forward and not backwards , that elects a man as its president based on party preference regardless of foreign connections.
You appear to consider belonging to a minority as a catastrophe. I live in the UK where I could also call my self part of a minority , it has never in fact crossed my mind , because I consider my self equal to all British subjects and most importantly the law considers me as equal to all others. The Cypriot constitution bestows equality under the law of all its citizens .
I think you are more concerned about numerical numbers here however you can not possibly demand the reduction of G/C numbers in order to reduce their numeriacl superiority.
You are concerned so much with minority issues but then as you know full well the T/Cs are a minority within the occupied part of Cyprus .

[Viewpoint]

Someone posted a picture of a Greek Cypriot woman making a traditional basket the other day, and SHE WORE A SCARF. So whats the big deal?? One rule for Greek Cypriots and another for Turkish women? Women should have a choice. Paranoia about Islamic plots both inside and outside Turkey are getting ridiculous.

Of course women and men should have a choice , however the Turkish courts ruled otherwise , if you read the report of the court rulings you will see how laughable the entire process has been.
Nothing whatsoever to do with G/C women wearing scarves , they can wear what ever pleases them in a true democracy, I think you misunderstood the contents of the court findings Tess , its about the Higher Turkish courts making the wearing of scarves at universities illegal !! Such is the mentality of the army influenced legislature , that they will spend months deliberating on such a trivial matter .
Let the T/Cs understand that absorbed by Turkey takes them back a century at least.

mitiades have you not yet realized this is preferred to becoming a minority in a GC state run by GCs. We have that choice today TCs can move south whenever they wish but they dont ask yourself why?

As one who has stated many times in the past that minorities and majorities are of no importance in the 21st century where Cyprus is a member of the EU and where within the EU Cyprus IS A MINORITY.
I also stated many times and you will recall , that my ambition is to see a T/C President of a united Cyprus , one that would represent his motherlands' interests and the motherland is none other than Cyprus. Such an event would indeed herald a new beginning for Cyprus. An EU member in a modern world that goes forward and not backwards , that elects a man as its president based on party preference regardless of foreign connections.
You appear to consider belonging to a minority as a catastrophe. I live in the UK where I could also call my self part of a minority , it has never in fact crossed my mind , because I consider my self equal to all British subjects and most importantly the law considers me as equal to all others. The Cypriot constitution bestows equality under the law of all its citizens .
I think you are more concerned about numerical numbers here however you can not possibly demand the reduction of G/C numbers in order to reduce their numeriacl superiority.
You are concerned so much with minority issues but then as you know full well the T/Cs are a minority within the occupied part of Cyprus .

I am concerned about being ruled by GCs in a united Cyprus who could and imo would misuse their numerical advantage to make my and other TCs lives hell.

You are not exposed to this in the UK because you went there knowing full well that you had to abide by that countries rules and laws. Ask the minorities in France, Greece and Bulgaria how they are treated, I bet you you will be shocked and these countries are in the EU.

Plus you are a minority in the UK because you are not indigenous to that country but I am indigenous to Cyprus there's a massive difference.

[Kifeas]

mitiades have you not yet realized this is preferred to becoming a minority in a GC state run by GCs. We have that choice today TCs can move south whenever they wish but they dont ask yourself why?

VP, I wonder for how long you will continue beating up the bush, aimlessly; with ridiculous, unsubstantiated and untruthful claims that the choice the GCs are placing in front of the TCs, is one of “becoming a minority in a GC state run by GCs!” Aren’t you ashamed to lie so pathetically all the time in the forum? When will you at last get serious and real, and stop trying to imitate Goebbels in your propaganda tricks?

Isn't your aim a unitary state where TCs are just another minority left to the mercy of the majority luckily for you being the GCs without any community rights? Why dont you come clean and tell everyone exactly what you have in store for the TC people.

I would like everyone in this forum to make a note of what a liar and a misinforming propagandist VP has turned into!

VP says the following
“Isn't your aim a unitary state where TCs are just another minority left to the mercy of the majority luckily for you being the GCs without any community rights? Why don’t you come clean and tell everyone exactly what you have in store for the TC people”

And this is what the GC leader has agreed with Talat, only a month ago:
"They (two community leaders) reaffirmed their commitment to bi-zonal, bi-communal federation with political equality, as defined by relevant Security Council resolutions. This partnership will have a Federal Government with a single international personality, as well as a Turkish Cypriot Constituent State and a Greek Cypriot Constituent State, which will be of equal status."

I hope everyone can see now, how VP is lying to everybody in this forum.

PS: The correct translation in Turkish of the word "Constituent," as it evokes from and is used in the above text, is that of "bileşen;" and not "kurucu" (founding) as the Turks translate it into!

[Tim Drayton]

mitiades have you not yet realized this is preferred to becoming a minority in a GC state run by GCs. We have that choice today TCs can move south whenever they wish but they dont ask yourself why?

VP, I wonder for how long you will continue beating up the bush, aimlessly; with ridiculous, unsubstantiated and untruthful claims that the choice the GCs are placing in front of the TCs, is one of “becoming a minority in a GC state run by GCs!” Aren’t you ashamed to lie so pathetically all the time in the forum? When will you at last get serious and real, and stop trying to imitate Goebbels in your propaganda tricks?

Isn't your aim a unitary state where TCs are just another minority left to the mercy of the majority luckily for you being the GCs without any community rights? Why dont you come clean and tell everyone exactly what you have in store for the TC people.

I would like everyone in this forum to make a note of what a liar and a misinforming propagandist VP has turned into!

VP says the following
“Isn't your aim a unitary state where TCs are just another minority left to the mercy of the majority luckily for you being the GCs without any community rights? Why don’t you come clean and tell everyone exactly what you have in store for the TC people”

And this is what the GC leader has agreed with Talat, only a month ago:
"They (two community leaders) reaffirmed their commitment to bi-zonal, bi-communal federation with political equality, as defined by relevant Security Council resolutions. This partnership will have a Federal Government with a single international personality, as well as a Turkish Cypriot Constituent State and a Greek Cypriot Constituent State, which will be of equal status."

I hope everyone can see now, how VP is lying to everybody in this forum.

PS: The correct translation in Turkish of the word "Constituent," as it evokes from and is used in the above text, is that of "bileşen;" and not "kurucu" (founding) as the Turks translate it into!

I have seen "oluşturucu devlet" used for "constituent state".

[Kifeas]

Tim, as you know, "constituent" in English may take two types of interpretations. One means a "component" (ingredient,) i.e. it has a passive connotation; and the other means "founding," i.e. it has an active (energetic) connotation!

Now, in our case, the two leaders (Talat and Christofias) are neither meeting and negotiating with each other as the presidents of any two (already existing) "constituent states," nor do they negotiate as the presidents of the RoC on the one part and the "TRNC" on the other part. As it is well known, accepted and even stipulated in the UN resolutions, they negotiate as the leaders of the two communities, as they were acknowledged and defined in the 1960 constitution, and they were negotiating on the issue of Cyprus, on this basis, since 1964. This is an undeniable reality! Therefore, when they speak about a partnership, in the joined communiqué, they only speak about the partnership between the two communities that already exists in notion, and which in theory established the 1960 RoC.

Now, this partnership (between the two communities -since that is the capacity under which they negotiate) will take a new shape and will produce a new set up, which will among other things (as the communiqué says) will include one federal government and two constituent states. Therefore, both the federal government and the two states, will be the by-products of this (revised) partnership agreement between the two communities, and not the other way around, as the Turks wrongfully interpret it to mean. The Turks interpret the joined communiqué to mean that both the partnership and the federal government itself, will be the by-products of the agreement between the two constituent (which they translate into founding) states. Such an interpretation cannot possibly derive from the way the joined communiqué was syntaxed, therefore the connotation of the word "constituent" cannot possibly mean "founding" but only "component!" It is simple English grammar and syntax, really!

[Tim Drayton]

Tim, as you know, "constituent" in English may take two types of interpretations. One means a "component" (ingredient,) i.e. it has a passive connotation; and the other means "founding," i.e. it has an active (energetic) connotation!

Now, in our case, the two leaders (Talat and Christofias) are neither meeting and negotiating with each other as the presidents of any two (already existing) "constituent states," nor do they negotiate as the presidents of the RoC on the one part and the "TRNC" on the other part. As it is well known, accepted and even stipulated in the UN resolutions, they negotiate as the leaders of the two communities, as they were acknowledged and defined in the 1960 constitution, and they were negotiating on the issue of Cyprus, on this basis, since 1964. This is an undeniable reality! Therefore, when they speak about a partnership, in the joined communiqué, they only speak about the partnership between the two communities that already exists in notion, and which in theory established the 1960 RoC.

Now, this partnership (between the two communities -since that is the capacity under which they negotiate) will take a new shape and will produce a new set up, which will among other things (as the communiqué says) will include one federal government and two constituent states. Therefore, both the federal government and the two states, will be the by-products of this (revised) partnership agreement between the two communities, and not the other way around, as the Turks wrongfully interpret it to mean. The Turks interpret the joined communiqué to mean that both the partnership and the federal government itself, will be the by-products of the agreement between the two constituent (which they translate into founding) states. Such an interpretation cannot possibly derive from the way the joined communiqué was syntaxed, therefore the connotation of the word "constituent" cannot possibly mean "founding" but only "component!" It is simple English grammar and syntax, really!

I can only quote from the text of a document submitted by the UBP to Talat with reference to the current peace process:

source:
http://www.kibrispostasi.com/index.php/ ... /Ana_sayfa

c. İki Devletlilik ( “ Annan Planı’ndaki Constituent States- “ Oluşturucu Devlet” bizi tatmin etmemektedir, çünkü bunlar egemenliğe sahip devletler değildir; “Founding States- Kurucu Devlet” ibaresi daha yerinde olur);

[The existence of two states (The "Constituent States" of the Annan Plan do not satisfy us because they are not states which possess sovereignty; the expression "Founding States" is more appropriate.)]

I think this points to an awareness of the distinction you are drawing.

[Viewpoint]

mitiades have you not yet realized this is preferred to becoming a minority in a GC state run by GCs. We have that choice today TCs can move south whenever they wish but they dont ask yourself why?

VP, I wonder for how long you will continue beating up the bush, aimlessly; with ridiculous, unsubstantiated and untruthful claims that the choice the GCs are placing in front of the TCs, is one of “becoming a minority in a GC state run by GCs!” Aren’t you ashamed to lie so pathetically all the time in the forum? When will you at last get serious and real, and stop trying to imitate Goebbels in your propaganda tricks?

Isn't your aim a unitary state where TCs are just another minority left to the mercy of the majority luckily for you being the GCs without any community rights? Why dont you come clean and tell everyone exactly what you have in store for the TC people.

I would like everyone in this forum to make a note of what a liar and a misinforming propagandist VP has turned into!

VP says the following
“Isn't your aim a unitary state where TCs are just another minority left to the mercy of the majority luckily for you being the GCs without any community rights? Why don’t you come clean and tell everyone exactly what you have in store for the TC people”

And this is what the GC leader has agreed with Talat, only a month ago:
"They (two community leaders) reaffirmed their commitment to bi-zonal, bi-communal federation with political equality, as defined by relevant Security Council resolutions. This partnership will have a Federal Government with a single international personality, as well as a Turkish Cypriot Constituent State and a Greek Cypriot Constituent State, which will be of equal status."

I hope everyone can see now, how VP is lying to everybody in this forum.

PS: The correct translation in Turkish of the word "Constituent," as it evokes from and is used in the above text, is that of "bileşen;" and not "kurucu" (founding) as the Turks translate it into!

Do you personally support your leadership? if you do not are you representative of the majority of GCs?