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TC F.M. Warns U.N. About Summonses Issued By GC Side

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby erolz » Wed May 04, 2005 7:33 am

Agios Amvrosios wrote:Welcome Anglo!

Everyone who exploits property and heritage seized illegally is liable. TC should not be immune either.


And presumably GC that have 'mysteriously' built businesses on prime property that was owned by TC prior to 74 should ot be immune either?

Agios Amvrosios wrote:There are only 80,000 TCs. They could be housed in 20 Appartment buidlings built on TC owned land.


There are more than 80,000 TC world wide and there are imo more than 80,000 TC in Cyprus right now. So this is your solution? Force all TC to live in a 'ghetto' - and you wonder why we fear being politicaly dominated by a GC numerical majority in our own shared homeland?

Agios Amvrosios wrote:What right in law and reason do they think they have to occupy property owned by non turks who were ethnically cleansed? NONE!


Owned by non TC you mean surely? Also all land owned by non TC but not GC is not 'occupied'. The TRNC respects such ownership of non TC. I do appreciate this is of little value or interest to you as a GC but let's try and be acurate as possible shall we? Otherwise we are just spouting propaganda.

Agios Amvrosios wrote:They have no right to ethnically exclude all non turks from the occupied areas.


We do not exclude all non TC or Turks (please stop calling TC Turks. I do not refer to GC as Greeks. If you want we could all start such destructive practices but it will not get us anywhere). We have Brits, French, Dutch, Americans, Indians, Pakistanis, Chinese and many many other ethnic people living and residing. Not as high a % as I would like to see personaly but we do have them. I am not even sure that we exclude GC from coming to live here either, if they accept the TRNC and it's law - I think it's just a case that no GC wants to under those conditions?

Anyway I am off to the Army now. So to all my friends and everyone else here - tkae care and 'see' you all in a couple of weeks.
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Postby Anglo » Wed May 04, 2005 8:59 am

Thank you for the welcome Agios.

But I don't see how TCs could have made a living all these years without using fomer GC properties.

Also, without wanting to repeat any old topics (sorry, I'm a new boy here) - wasn't there "ethnic cleansing" between 60 -74 for TCs too?

Excluding GCs from the north kept the peace didn't it? Therefore the right to live without fear of attack was restored to GCs and TCs - this is a greater right than land ownership surely?
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Postby magikthrill » Wed May 04, 2005 10:07 am

Anglo wrote:
Excluding GCs from the north kept the peace didn't it? Therefore the right to live without fear of attack was restored to GCs and TCs - this is a greater right than land ownership surely?


Anglo,



So I see your an Enosis supporter huh?

I mean if Enosis had achieved that would have been also a good thing because TCs would get deported (most likely) to Turkey or somewhere and that way there would be no fear of attack for GCs and TCs.
Surely this is more important than being able to live in your ancestral homeland, right?
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Postby Alexis » Wed May 04, 2005 10:13 am

Anglo,

Firstly, welcome to the forum.
You are correct, when outsiders delve deeper into the Cyprus problem
they realise it's not as black and white as the two communities like to
think.
The main concerns of GCs are not the use of their properties by
TC refugees (this happens in the South as well), but the blatant
exploitation of their property for commercial gain.
Also be sure that whilst the right to life is obviously of greater
importance than the right to property two wrongs do not make a right.
It can also be argued that what has actually kept the peace is not
the exclusion of GCs from the North but also the exclusion of TCs from the
south. The period of 1963-1974 was not one of a genocide mission
of one side against the other but one of inter-communcal conflict orchestrated by both sides. This should always be born in mind when trying to understand the Cyprus issue.
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Postby insan » Wed May 04, 2005 11:16 am

The main concerns of GCs are not the use of their properties by
TC refugees (this happens in the South as well), but the blatant
exploitation of their property for commercial gain.


Do you know how much land was sold to foreigners on both sides of the Island in last 30 years. I'm sure it is much more in South than North; per capita. You'll say GCs don't sell TC land to foreigners but TCs sell GC land. Why because land belongs to TCs in North is only 3.6 of overall Island. TCs d not only sell GC land to foreigners but their own land as well. There is a construction and real estate sector in every country; in North too. Theoretically TCs own %18 of Cyprus. However despite both sides agreed on a bi-communal, bi-zonal federation in 1975; the concerned politicians of both sides almost did nothing to achive this goal. If the territorial adjustments and exchange of properties had been settled in early 80s, then if the Cyprus problem haven't been solved today; there wouldn't have been such an issue, selling GC land to foreigners.

Moreover, the embargos being imposed on TCs is also an important factor urges TCs to sell land and make a living. In North noone can sell any land to foreigners without the permission of Council of Ministers. The permissions of selling GC land to foreigners are determined in accordance the demand from foreigners to buy GC land and the financial need of "TRNC" government. Under the embargos "TRNC" government hasn't got much income but it needs lots of financial resources to turn the wheels of "TRNC". The tax income it gets from the sales of land to foreigners puts good cash in government's account. The land sales also put good cash in pockets of TCs, directly or indirectly.

It is obvious that one of the important factor on sale of GC land is the inhumane embargos. However GC leadership instead of helping to elliminate this factor; does everything it can to isolate TC community economically more and more. Most of the economical measures GC side offered to TC side are all towards achieving their unilateral goals that TCs will never accept. According to GC side TCs are only a minority, living in occupied areas of RoC. According to GC leadership, Cyprus problem solely consist of occupation; TCs are citizens of RoC who live under the rule of illegal occupation regime. The defacto regime of South assumes that it represents whole Island and TCs but it does not.


Also be sure that whilst the right to life is obviously of greater
importance than the right to property two wrongs do not make a right.
It can also be argued that what has actually kept the peace is not
the exclusion of GCs from the North but also the exclusion of TCs from the
south.


Actually noone was forced to abandon the places they were living pre-74. Overwhelmin majority of both communities fled to opposite ways during the war of 1974. Then the 3rd Vienna Agreement signed in 1975. According to this agreement several hundreds of TCs chose to stay in South and several hundreds of GCs(mostly Maronites) chose to stay in North. In post-war Cyprus, as a consequence of 11 years lasted inter-communal violence and strife; thousands of people from both sides lost their lives, beloveds and friends. Therfore there was an extremely dangerous hostile mood from either community to other. It was too hard for both communities to rebuild their relationships and state of affairs in unitary state, under the then circumstances.



The period of 1963-1974 was not one of a genocide mission
of one side against the other but one of inter-communcal conflict orchestrated by both sides. This should always be born in mind when trying to understand the Cyprus issue.


Yes, it is true that this inter-communal conflict orchastrated by both sides but have you ever asked yourself if after the establishment of RoC, GC side had abandoned Enosis idea and degrading TCs to a minority what would have happened?
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Postby magikthrill » Wed May 04, 2005 12:00 pm

insan wrote:Actually noone was forced to abandon the places they were living pre-74.


I will not get into correcting this statement because you pretty much do yourself:

Overwhelmin majority of both communities fled to opposite ways during the war of 1974.


According to:
Dictionary.com wrote:v. fled, (fld) flee·ing, flees
v. intr.
1. To run away, as from trouble or danger



So is it Opposite Day in insan fantasy land today or is everyday like this?
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Postby Kifeas » Wed May 04, 2005 12:06 pm

insan wrote:Do you know how much land was sold to foreigners on both sides of the Island in last 30 years. I'm sure it is much more in South than North; per capita.


Wrong facts.
On a per capita basis there is a 3 times more land sold to foreigners in the north than in the south. Unless you consider the TC population in the north to be 220 thousand people. But even under this assumption, still on a per capita basis the amount of land sold to foreigners will be 2 times more in the north.


insan wrote:You'll say GCs don't sell TC land to foreigners but TCs sell GC land. Why because land belongs to TCs in North is only 3.6 of overall Island.


Wrong facts
The TC private land (individual and evkaf) in the north is about 531 sq. kms and the entire area of the occupied part of Cyprus is equivalent to 3,224 sq. kms which makes it equivalent 34.9% of the total area of Cyprus. Therefore the Total TC private land in the occupied areas is 16.5% of the total occupied territory and 5.74% of the total area of the island.
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Postby magikthrill » Wed May 04, 2005 12:20 pm

Heres a pre-74 "Ethnic" map of Cyprus that I found. Maybe it will help:

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/europe/c ... p_1972.jpg
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Postby insan » Wed May 04, 2005 12:30 pm

Kifeas wrote:
insan wrote:Do you know how much land was sold to foreigners on both sides of the Island in last 30 years. I'm sure it is much more in South than North; per capita.


Kifeas wrote:
Wrong facts.
On a per capita basis there is a 3 times more land sold to foreigners in the north than in the south. Unless you consider the TC population in the north to be 220 thousand people. But even under this assumption, still on a per capita basis the amount of land sold to foreigners will be 2 times more in the north.


insan wrote:

As far as I know there are around 70.000 foreign residents(pontians excluded) have been living in south in last 30 years. Most probably most of those foreigners are inhabiting in the houses they purchased from GCs. In North the number of foreign residents is around 7-8 thousands. How 6-7 thousand foreign residents in North could purchase more land then the foreign residents inhabiting in South?



insan wrote:You'll say GCs don't sell TC land to foreigners but TCs sell GC land. Why because land belongs to TCs in North is only 3.6 of overall Island.


Kifeas wrote:
Wrong facts
The TC private land (individual and evkaf) in the north is about 531 sq. kms and the entire area of the occupied part of Cyprus is equivalent to 3,224 sq. kms which makes it equivalent 34.9% of the total area of Cyprus. Therefore the Total TC private land in the occupied areas is 16.5% of the total occupied territory and 5.74% of the total area of the island.


insan wrote:

According to Tassos and kypros.org the land belongs to TCs in North is around %3.5 of overall Cyprus.

Where do you obtain your ultimately correct facts?
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Postby garbitsch » Wed May 04, 2005 12:40 pm

Agios Amvrosios wrote:Welcome Anglo!

Everyone who exploits property and heritage seized illegally is liable. TC should not be immune either. There are only 80,000 TCs. They could be housed in 20 Appartment buidlings built on TC owned land.

What right in law and reason do they think they have to occupy property owned by non turks who were ethnically cleansed? NONE!

They have no right to ethnically exclude all non turks from the occupied areas.


How about creating Turkish Homelands, like black homelands in apartheid SA, and forcing T.Cs to live in these enclaves and forcing them to deprive their citizenships? How about calling these homelands "BophuTurksana" or "Turskei"?? How about building a very tall skyscraper and force these 30k people to live in the same building? What other clever ideas do you have in your mind??

Don't GCs use T.C property in south to get benefit? My friend's father's land has been used by a G.C who built up a very luxury restaurant and makes a thousands of CYP profit per month. This just one example in my mind!
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