Cyprus-Forum.com

[Brittania]

its about the soldier talking about how they raping the girls and the girl hang herself in iraq

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qFOF-jv32dA

So we should be more interested in wrong doings in Iraq than when 2 Cypriot citizens get executed by a foreign power on Cypriot soil?

You mean 2 aliens illegally entering the TRNC and stupidly putting UN soldiers lives at risk as well as their own

I believe the UN soldiers were shot at by the turkish troops.

[Kifeas]

Since Tim asked for more evidence to back up my allegation that Kemalism, as it was (is) diachronically practiced in Turkey, is tantamount to a fascist or near fascist -nevertheless totalitarian and oppressive ideological practice; I will provide the opinion and the evidence of some others, more knowledgeable and credible than me on the Turkish affairs, which back up exactly what I have claimed. With this, in no case do I wish to be seen as favoring Erdogan's political movement, nor that I overlook the fact that it may also be just another totalitarian, oppressive and anachronistic one that is possibly seating on the other extreme end of the unbalancing "seesaw" between Turkish "secularism" and theocracy. It definitely seems that Aristotle’s maxim calling for "nothing in excess," makes little or no sense to the overall political culture of the Turkish "nation," and, 80 whole years after its establishment as a “nation-state,” it continues to swing without balance between one extreme ideological practice and the other.

1. The Practice of a Century -- Kemalism, by Yucel Yerilgoz
http://www.aihgs.com/kemal.htm

2. The Anachronistic Kemalist Ideology, by Khalid Amayreh
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/ ... /14/p26156

3. Fascism in the name of secularism, by Ihsan Dagi
http://ihsandagi.blogspot.com/2008/01/f ... arism.html

4. Headscarves, generals, and Turkish democracy, by Niels Kadritzke
http://www.eurozine.com/articles/2008-0 ... ke-en.html

5. Martin van Bruinessen on Ismail Beşikçi, a Turkish sociologist, critic of Kemalism, and kurdologist.
http://www.let.uu.nl/~martin.vanbruines ... esikci.htm

[Big Al]

Look at the circumstances, the explosive situation where everything was out of control it was hardly the correct situation to climb up a pole and rip down a flag which represents nationalistic and charged emotions, he went into a mind field knowing full well the dangers, why did he not behave himself behind the buffer zone? Why arent you also asking the question what the hell was he trying to achieve by rioting which is a form of war where there is no sense or reason people act on emotions and not clear thought.

VP, you are full of shit as always..!

I believe you qualify as a Turkish Nationalist as you called it, but I call you Fascist with a touch of Racist and a touch of Hateful. Now tell us the truth. Had you been at the location where the "Turkish Piñata Party" and the "Flag Pole Execution Party" took place, and perhaps you were there, then would you have taken part in murdering these two unarmed individual.?? I want to see just how far your big talk on self defence you are proclaiming would have made you help murder these two individuals, as the excuse you have given to the murderers already.

Lets see how much BALLS you really have by telling us the truth.!!

this man entered the TRNC illegally, he was acting in a provocative manner, knew his life was in danger if he crossed into the TRNC. Since he knew what he was doing (ie he was sound of mind) and he knew the risks he deserves what he got. PS it was Tansu Ciller that said anyone laying a hand on the Turkish flag will have their hands cut off and it still stands.

Big Al, lets see if you believe in what you are saying above, or are you just shooting your mouth off just to be a tough guy and a Cowboy.??

August 8th, 1964 Turkish fighter jets were on a mission over Cyprus and one of them got shot down and the pilot bailed out. The pilot's name was Capt. Cengiz TOPEL. Perhaps you have heard of him. In any case, he was captured by the "Greeks" and according to UNFICY after the fact, it was determined that the pilot was tortured and burned to death alive in the most brutal way possible. So, now tell me Big Al, did Capt. Cengiz TOPEL deserved what he got.?? After all, using you arguments, he was flying on a mission over Cyprus, therefore he was doing an illegal act. He may have even carried out bombings on those "Greeks" on the ground with conventional weapons or Napalm, therefore he was in a position to be a threat and may even have killed some "Greeks" on the ground, so my question to you is, was this despicable act of burning him alive was justified and that he had gotten what he deserved.

So come on Big Al, tell us the truth if you dare. Lets see if your BALLS are any bigger than VP's, because you both talk the way you do, because "Greeks" were murdered by the "Turks" in 1996 with the brutal beating and execution on the flag pole, but lets see if you will talk the same way then a "Turk" is murdered in Cold Blood by the "Greeks".

So Big Al, tell me honestly. Did Capt. Topel got what he deserved, and if you say NO, then you are the biggest Big mouth hypocrite there is, and if have the BALLS to you say YES, then I want you to send some flowers to his memorial in Cyprus with a note telling him, that he got what he deserved when he was murdered by the "Greeks" in Cold Blood. Don't forget to leave your name and of your relatives who live in Cyprus on the note sent with the flowers to Capt. Topels memorial.

I may be the first person to have written about Capt. Topel's story 2 years ago here on the forum. If you want to read it, it is here.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus6004-10.html

I think VP and Big Al had enough time over the weekend to check and see how Big their BALLS are, so to respond to my posts made to them above.

Well, it turns out, they don't have BALLS at all to tell us the truth of their convictions.

Looks like I have performed a CASTRATION on them both.!!

I wonder if their voices changed yet.

You are a moron, i wont play your pathetic game as the question and the simlilarities drawn are an insult to the pilot. And Kikapu you couldnt fight your way out of a wet paper bag let alone castrate me.

[Tim Drayton]

There is a generally accepted principal that is summed up in the Latin expression "Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non que negat (the burden of proof rests on who asserts, not on who denies).

Tim, I honestly have you down for a much more sincere interlocutor, than what you seem to come across in this case. What is it that you want me to prove, the self-evident? The obvious? You want me to prove what every single educated and sincere Turk won't even deny?

What is it that you deny? That in Turkey there is no "powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism? That there is no "disdain for the importance of human rights?" That there is no such practice as that of "identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause?" That in Turkey there is no such thing as "the supremacy of the military/avid militarism," etc, etc..? Do you by any chance also want me to prove to you that I am not an elephant?

I am dealing with an interlocutor who says, "I am off to the beach, you carry on if you like." How serious is that?

Joking apart, this is such a broad topic that I can scarcely muster the energy to begin to tackle it. I am sure you have already made your mind up anyway.

In the first place, the list of criteria you have provided are for determining whether a particular REGIME is fascist or not. Kemalism is an IDEOLOGY not a REGIME.

Kemalism was a revolutionary ideology that was born when, unlike previous reform movements that sought continuity with the Ottoman past, a total break was made with this anachronistic order and a radically new Turkish Republic was created. Kemalism is a project which aimed to modernise and Westernise Turkey. It essentially wished to secure the benefits of the European reformation and enlightenment by removing people from the clutches religious dogmatism. It has secured a broadening and strengthening of rights for ordinary Turkish people. It beggars belief that such an ideology can be described as fascist. You seem to be implying that all educated and sincere Turks support your thesis. Well, I am sorry but I contend that you will not find a single Turkish person who equates Kemalism with fascism, and I will maintain that stance until proved otherwise.

Turning to the question of REGIMES, which the set of criteria you have provided are designed to measure, I can identify at least seven different stages within the political history of the Turkish Republic, and very different scores would be awarded in each of these periods. The initial period of one-party rule, perversely, would produce very high scores on most counts. This was a period of dictatorship and one man rule, but unlike many other dictatorships in history, I would argue that it was a benevolent dictatorship. A great many progressive changes occurred in this time. To me, the basic litmus test for fascism has to be whether it is reactionary or progressive. The early years of the Turkish Republic in my view fail this test and so this regime cannot be classified as fascist.

If, on the other hand, we examine the junta led by Kenan Evren that came to power in the coup of 12 September 1980, there is a very different story. This junta abolished the constitution, suspended the rule of law, closed all political parties. Vast numbers of people were detained and tortured. Academic freedom and civil society were crushed. Many academics and intellectuals found themselves unemployed. A new far more restrictive constitution was introduced that limited academic freedom and made it difficult for civil society to organise. The generals also unsuccessfully attempted to bar all those who had been active in politics before the coup from standing for election, so that they could stage sham elections contested by ther own carefully vetted candidates. They failed in the last attempt. Yes, this was fascism in all its ugliness.

However, what does this have to do with the ideology of Kemalism? One of the justifications advanced by the generals for staging this coup was the need to abolish the 1961 constitution. This constitution, the most liberal that Turkey has seen and which permitted civil society and academic freedom to flourish, was actually the work of the Kemalist officers who staged the 1960 coup. This demonstrates that the 1980 coup was anti-Kemalist in nature.

It is true that the legacy of 12 September still lives on in various ways in Turkey. You first have to establish that these phenomena are Kemalist in nature if you wish to use them as a stick with which to beat Kemalism.

Moreover, one has to look for the real architect of the 1980 coup. An abundance of circumstantial evidence has amassed suggesting that the CIA engineered this coup. I am sure the time will come, as more documents are revealed, when this ceases to be a matter of debate. Were the same hidden hands not behind the coup that brought the fascist junta to power in Athens in 1967? Does the fact that Greece was once ruled by a fascist junta mean that all Greeks by nature are fascist? This is infantile thinking.

I certainly agree that in the modern world no country should have an official, guiding ideology. There should be more pluralism in Turkey. However, when placed in a historical context, Kemalism was a revolutionary and progressive ideology which took the Turkish people out of a very dark period indeed and made them citizens of a modern, democratic state in which the rule of law applies.

[Kikapu]

Look at the circumstances, the explosive situation where everything was out of control it was hardly the correct situation to climb up a pole and rip down a flag which represents nationalistic and charged emotions, he went into a mind field knowing full well the dangers, why did he not behave himself behind the buffer zone? Why arent you also asking the question what the hell was he trying to achieve by rioting which is a form of war where there is no sense or reason people act on emotions and not clear thought.

VP, you are full of shit as always..!

I believe you qualify as a Turkish Nationalist as you called it, but I call you Fascist with a touch of Racist and a touch of Hateful. Now tell us the truth. Had you been at the location where the "Turkish Piñata Party" and the "Flag Pole Execution Party" took place, and perhaps you were there, then would you have taken part in murdering these two unarmed individual.?? I want to see just how far your big talk on self defence you are proclaiming would have made you help murder these two individuals, as the excuse you have given to the murderers already.

Lets see how much BALLS you really have by telling us the truth.!!

this man entered the TRNC illegally, he was acting in a provocative manner, knew his life was in danger if he crossed into the TRNC. Since he knew what he was doing (ie he was sound of mind) and he knew the risks he deserves what he got. PS it was Tansu Ciller that said anyone laying a hand on the Turkish flag will have their hands cut off and it still stands.

Big Al, lets see if you believe in what you are saying above, or are you just shooting your mouth off just to be a tough guy and a Cowboy.??

August 8th, 1964 Turkish fighter jets were on a mission over Cyprus and one of them got shot down and the pilot bailed out. The pilot's name was Capt. Cengiz TOPEL. Perhaps you have heard of him. In any case, he was captured by the "Greeks" and according to UNFICY after the fact, it was determined that the pilot was tortured and burned to death alive in the most brutal way possible. So, now tell me Big Al, did Capt. Cengiz TOPEL deserved what he got.?? After all, using you arguments, he was flying on a mission over Cyprus, therefore he was doing an illegal act. He may have even carried out bombings on those "Greeks" on the ground with conventional weapons or Napalm, therefore he was in a position to be a threat and may even have killed some "Greeks" on the ground, so my question to you is, was this despicable act of burning him alive was justified and that he had gotten what he deserved.

So come on Big Al, tell us the truth if you dare. Lets see if your BALLS are any bigger than VP's, because you both talk the way you do, because "Greeks" were murdered by the "Turks" in 1996 with the brutal beating and execution on the flag pole, but lets see if you will talk the same way then a "Turk" is murdered in Cold Blood by the "Greeks".

So Big Al, tell me honestly. Did Capt. Topel got what he deserved, and if you say NO, then you are the biggest Big mouth hypocrite there is, and if have the BALLS to you say YES, then I want you to send some flowers to his memorial in Cyprus with a note telling him, that he got what he deserved when he was murdered by the "Greeks" in Cold Blood. Don't forget to leave your name and of your relatives who live in Cyprus on the note sent with the flowers to Capt. Topels memorial.

I may be the first person to have written about Capt. Topel's story 2 years ago here on the forum. If you want to read it, it is here.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus6004-10.html

I think VP and Big Al had enough time over the weekend to check and see how Big their BALLS are, so to respond to my posts made to them above.

Well, it turns out, they don't have BALLS at all to tell us the truth of their convictions.

Looks like I have performed a CASTRATION on them both.!!

I wonder if their voices changed yet.

You are a moron, i wont play your pathetic game as the question and the simlilarities drawn are an insult to the pilot. And Kikapu you couldnt fight your way out of a wet paper bag let alone castrate me.

Yes CASTRATED BigAl, they are an insult to Capt. Topel, and it is you who has insulted him and his family with your ignorant and racist views on the deaths of the two GC's in the hands of Blood thirsty individuals on the day they were murdered, that you seem to have approved, which then makes you also approve to what happened to Capt. Topel in circumstances that were far beyond than circumstances surrounded the murders of the two GC's.

Ignorance is no excuse, for you to try and sound like an heartless idiot BigAl.!!

[Big Al]

Look at the circumstances, the explosive situation where everything was out of control it was hardly the correct situation to climb up a pole and rip down a flag which represents nationalistic and charged emotions, he went into a mind field knowing full well the dangers, why did he not behave himself behind the buffer zone? Why arent you also asking the question what the hell was he trying to achieve by rioting which is a form of war where there is no sense or reason people act on emotions and not clear thought.

VP, you are full of shit as always..!

I believe you qualify as a Turkish Nationalist as you called it, but I call you Fascist with a touch of Racist and a touch of Hateful. Now tell us the truth. Had you been at the location where the "Turkish Piñata Party" and the "Flag Pole Execution Party" took place, and perhaps you were there, then would you have taken part in murdering these two unarmed individual.?? I want to see just how far your big talk on self defence you are proclaiming would have made you help murder these two individuals, as the excuse you have given to the murderers already.

Lets see how much BALLS you really have by telling us the truth.!!

this man entered the TRNC illegally, he was acting in a provocative manner, knew his life was in danger if he crossed into the TRNC. Since he knew what he was doing (ie he was sound of mind) and he knew the risks he deserves what he got. PS it was Tansu Ciller that said anyone laying a hand on the Turkish flag will have their hands cut off and it still stands.

Big Al, lets see if you believe in what you are saying above, or are you just shooting your mouth off just to be a tough guy and a Cowboy.??

August 8th, 1964 Turkish fighter jets were on a mission over Cyprus and one of them got shot down and the pilot bailed out. The pilot's name was Capt. Cengiz TOPEL. Perhaps you have heard of him. In any case, he was captured by the "Greeks" and according to UNFICY after the fact, it was determined that the pilot was tortured and burned to death alive in the most brutal way possible. So, now tell me Big Al, did Capt. Cengiz TOPEL deserved what he got.?? After all, using you arguments, he was flying on a mission over Cyprus, therefore he was doing an illegal act. He may have even carried out bombings on those "Greeks" on the ground with conventional weapons or Napalm, therefore he was in a position to be a threat and may even have killed some "Greeks" on the ground, so my question to you is, was this despicable act of burning him alive was justified and that he had gotten what he deserved.

So come on Big Al, tell us the truth if you dare. Lets see if your BALLS are any bigger than VP's, because you both talk the way you do, because "Greeks" were murdered by the "Turks" in 1996 with the brutal beating and execution on the flag pole, but lets see if you will talk the same way then a "Turk" is murdered in Cold Blood by the "Greeks".

So Big Al, tell me honestly. Did Capt. Topel got what he deserved, and if you say NO, then you are the biggest Big mouth hypocrite there is, and if have the BALLS to you say YES, then I want you to send some flowers to his memorial in Cyprus with a note telling him, that he got what he deserved when he was murdered by the "Greeks" in Cold Blood. Don't forget to leave your name and of your relatives who live in Cyprus on the note sent with the flowers to Capt. Topels memorial.

I may be the first person to have written about Capt. Topel's story 2 years ago here on the forum. If you want to read it, it is here.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus6004-10.html

I think VP and Big Al had enough time over the weekend to check and see how Big their BALLS are, so to respond to my posts made to them above.

Well, it turns out, they don't have BALLS at all to tell us the truth of their convictions.

Looks like I have performed a CASTRATION on them both.!!

I wonder if their voices changed yet.

You are a moron, i wont play your pathetic game as the question and the simlilarities drawn are an insult to the pilot. And Kikapu you couldnt fight your way out of a wet paper bag let alone castrate me.

Yes CASTRATED BigAl, they are an insult to Capt. Topel, and it is you who has insulted him and his family with your ignorant and racist views on the deaths of the two GC's in the hands of Blood thirsty individuals on the day they were murdered, that you seem to have approved, which then makes you also approve to what happened to Capt. Topel in circumstances that were far beyond than circumstances surrounded the murders of the two GC's.

Ignorance is no excuse, for you to try and sound like an heartless idiot BigAl.!!

The pilot was tortured, he wasnt just burnt, had had all his blood drained from his body. Im sure he would much rather have preferred the die with a bullet to the neck or a baton into the head as our 2 GC friends received. I wont discuss this topic any further.

[Kikapu]

Look at the circumstances, the explosive situation where everything was out of control it was hardly the correct situation to climb up a pole and rip down a flag which represents nationalistic and charged emotions, he went into a mind field knowing full well the dangers, why did he not behave himself behind the buffer zone? Why arent you also asking the question what the hell was he trying to achieve by rioting which is a form of war where there is no sense or reason people act on emotions and not clear thought.

VP, you are full of shit as always..!

I believe you qualify as a Turkish Nationalist as you called it, but I call you Fascist with a touch of Racist and a touch of Hateful. Now tell us the truth. Had you been at the location where the "Turkish Piñata Party" and the "Flag Pole Execution Party" took place, and perhaps you were there, then would you have taken part in murdering these two unarmed individual.?? I want to see just how far your big talk on self defence you are proclaiming would have made you help murder these two individuals, as the excuse you have given to the murderers already.

Lets see how much BALLS you really have by telling us the truth.!!

this man entered the TRNC illegally, he was acting in a provocative manner, knew his life was in danger if he crossed into the TRNC. Since he knew what he was doing (ie he was sound of mind) and he knew the risks he deserves what he got. PS it was Tansu Ciller that said anyone laying a hand on the Turkish flag will have their hands cut off and it still stands.

Big Al, lets see if you believe in what you are saying above, or are you just shooting your mouth off just to be a tough guy and a Cowboy.??

August 8th, 1964 Turkish fighter jets were on a mission over Cyprus and one of them got shot down and the pilot bailed out. The pilot's name was Capt. Cengiz TOPEL. Perhaps you have heard of him. In any case, he was captured by the "Greeks" and according to UNFICY after the fact, it was determined that the pilot was tortured and burned to death alive in the most brutal way possible. So, now tell me Big Al, did Capt. Cengiz TOPEL deserved what he got.?? After all, using you arguments, he was flying on a mission over Cyprus, therefore he was doing an illegal act. He may have even carried out bombings on those "Greeks" on the ground with conventional weapons or Napalm, therefore he was in a position to be a threat and may even have killed some "Greeks" on the ground, so my question to you is, was this despicable act of burning him alive was justified and that he had gotten what he deserved.

So come on Big Al, tell us the truth if you dare. Lets see if your BALLS are any bigger than VP's, because you both talk the way you do, because "Greeks" were murdered by the "Turks" in 1996 with the brutal beating and execution on the flag pole, but lets see if you will talk the same way then a "Turk" is murdered in Cold Blood by the "Greeks".

So Big Al, tell me honestly. Did Capt. Topel got what he deserved, and if you say NO, then you are the biggest Big mouth hypocrite there is, and if have the BALLS to you say YES, then I want you to send some flowers to his memorial in Cyprus with a note telling him, that he got what he deserved when he was murdered by the "Greeks" in Cold Blood. Don't forget to leave your name and of your relatives who live in Cyprus on the note sent with the flowers to Capt. Topels memorial.

I may be the first person to have written about Capt. Topel's story 2 years ago here on the forum. If you want to read it, it is here.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus6004-10.html

I think VP and Big Al had enough time over the weekend to check and see how Big their BALLS are, so to respond to my posts made to them above.

Well, it turns out, they don't have BALLS at all to tell us the truth of their convictions.

Looks like I have performed a CASTRATION on them both.!!

I wonder if their voices changed yet.

You are a moron, i wont play your pathetic game as the question and the simlilarities drawn are an insult to the pilot. And Kikapu you couldnt fight your way out of a wet paper bag let alone castrate me.

Yes CASTRATED BigAl, they are an insult to Capt. Topel, and it is you who has insulted him and his family with your ignorant and racist views on the deaths of the two GC's in the hands of Blood thirsty individuals on the day they were murdered, that you seem to have approved, which then makes you also approve to what happened to Capt. Topel in circumstances that were far beyond than circumstances surrounded the murders of the two GC's.

Ignorance is no excuse, for you to try and sound like an heartless idiot BigAl.!!

The pilot was tortured, he wasnt just burnt, had had all his blood drained from his body. Im sure he would much rather have preferred the die with a bullet to the neck or a baton into the head as our 2 GC friends received. I wont discuss this topic any further.

So, now that you have shown us that you do not have the BALLS to discuss the murder of Capt. Topel, you want to stop this conversation.!!

I don't blame you BigAl. Having no BALLS and talking BIG does not go together.!!

[Viewpoint]

You have this fixation with balls, are you homosexual?

[Kikapu]

You have this fixation with balls, are you homosexual?

No, but I would like to know who the CASTRATED males on the forum are.

So far only you and BigAl have shown to have had your BALLS confiscated.!

Next step will be for you two to become transvestites.!!

You know what that means, don't you.!

[Viewpoint]

You have this fixation with balls, are you homosexual?

No, but I would like to know who the CASTRATED males on the forum are.

So far only you and BigAl have shown to have had your BALLS confiscated.!

Next step will be for you two to become transvestites.!!

You know what that means, don't you.!

You are really scraping the bottom of the barrel, you will go to any lengths to ridicule and degrade people personally, luckily posters are intelligent enough to see right through your petty little games.