Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

There are some aspects of this case that are new to me, may be new to others as well.

The court found that several people shot at Solomou, not just the person who is clearly identifiable in the news reels.

Several people, including UN personnel were also injured.

These facts show that the much touted iron discipline of the Turkish army, who are the ones manning the Dherynia posts, is nonsense. They panicked and fired salvos at a lone intruder who could easily have been arrested by two or three men.

Solomou's death is not in vain then, it demolished the myth of this super efficient army.

Reading the excerpt from the decision I remembered an interview with a PLO man after the invasion of Lebanon. He told me that the invasion was a disaster but it was the first time the Palestinians had been close and personal to Israelis. Up to that point the only experience they had of Israelis was that of jets and helicopters, of a distant faceless and invincible enemy. The Israelis with their arrogance destroyed their own myth of invincibility. The Turks did the same in the killing of Solomou.

The newsreels also show the reaction of the National Guard, with soldiers taking battle positions in a disciplined and organized manner, waiting for the order to charge their rifles and return fire if necessary. Their cool reaction was in stark contrast to the panic of the other side at what was a non threatening situation.

[CanDiaz]

Solomon was grieving because his cousin was killed a few days before. He wasnt thinking straigh hence his actions. To say he must bear some resposiblity is a joke. This is his country not the turkish solders who are occupying cyprus. Their actions are well over the top. Its not the UN's fault its Turkeys. As for the minister Id like to bump into him without his bodyguards the turkish soldiers and see how brave he is then.

I said words to this effect yesterday when I 1st saw the clip.I knew there was something wrong with him & it enforces my point perfectly. Exactly why restraint should have been shown, but wasn't.

[Brittania]

There are some aspects of this case that are new to me, may be new to others as well.

The court found that several people shot at Solomou, not just the person who is clearly identifiable in the news reels.

Several people, including UN personnel were also injured.

These facts show that the much touted iron discipline of the Turkish army, who are the ones manning the Dherynia posts, is nonsense. They panicked and fired salvos at a lone intruder who could easily have been arrested by two or three men.

Solomou's death is not in vain then, it demolished the myth of this super efficient army.

Reading the excerpt from the decision I remembered an interview with a PLO man after the invasion of Lebanon. He told me that the invasion was a disaster but it was the first time the Palestinians had been close and personal to Israelis. Up to that point the only experience they had of Israelis was that of jets and helicopters, of a distant faceless and invincible enemy. The Israelis with their arrogance destroyed their own myth of invincibility. The Turks did the same in the killing of Solomou.

The newsreels also show the reaction of the National Guard, with soldiers taking battle positions in a disciplined and organized manner, waiting for the order to charge their rifles and return fire if necessary. Their cool reaction was in stark contrast to the panic of the other side at what was a non threatening situation.

haven't seen a newsreel of the aftermath of the shooting. Have you got a link?

[Kikapu]

GAV has put a valid question forward to test your one sided views and you yet again failed miserably. You were condemning us well before this verdict was announced yet you say not one word that will place an ounce of blame on the GCs why is that? Lets read how you will try to squirm out of this one.

No, Gav does not have a valid point. All he's trying to do is mix oranges with lemons to make justification for the murders by trying to shift blame to others. I'll not let him do that. I don't feel like having any lemons today.........sorry, so let's stick to what it is that we are talking about or does it make you feel uncomfortable.?

I have not talked about this case at all in the past, so you must have me mistaken with someone else. I was aware of the flag pole murder but not the mop style "Mexican Piñata Party" beating to the bulb murder. They were both ugly as hell and those who did this, is exactly where they belong.!!

Just because these acts of murder were committed by members of my community, does not mean I should not speak strongly towards the guilty. I do not need to make justifications on what responsibility the GC's should bear relating to these murders. At the end of the day, two men were murdered when no defence can justify the actions of the guilty, since the victims posed no danger to the guilty. It is that simple and by trying to shift the blame to sanitize the whole crime, will not work with me.

[Damsi]

Not only did the ECHR conclude that both men were deliberately targeted and killed unjustifiably, and that the Turkish authorities failed to investigate, but Turkey’s arguments to the court contained blatant lies.


Turkey claimed that Solomou was killed in the crossfire between both sides when there was no evidence at all that any shots had been fired from the Greek Cypriot side, or that any of the demonstrators there were armed.

However, the evidence proved that all five bullets taken from Solomou’s body were of a type used by Turkish and Turkish Cypriot forces, and that he was deliberately aimed at from several sources on the Turkish-controlled side of the buffer zone.

“The Court is unable to accept the respondent government's version of the facts on this point,” the judgement said.

“It is worth noting that the victim was hit by five bullets, a fact which is hard to reconcile with the theory that his shooting was not intentional.”

Solomou, who climbed the flagpole unarmed and smoking a cigarette, was not a threat to anyone, the court concluded, and could easily have been apprehended when he descended.

“The opening of fire was totally unwarranted and not even preceded by a warning shot,” the court said.

In Isaak’s case, Turkey claimed he had died during a skirmish between demonstrators from both sides, and that his death could not be prevented at the time by the Turkish and Turkish Cypriot authorities.

Evidence showed that three uniformed Turkish Cypriot police officers took part in the beating.

Turkey also claimed the skirmishes happened when Greek Cypriot demonstrators crossed in the occupied areas, even though Isaak was killed 32 metres away from the Turkish ceasefire line.

“The Court is unable to accept the respondent government's version of facts… it observes that it is contradicted by the witness statements,” said the court, referring to what happened to the unarmed demonstrator as a “savage beating”.

“Far from attempting to stop the beating and to protect Mr Isaak's life, these soldiers actively participated in the mob.” UN troops had even tried to stop the Turkish Cypriot officers involved, it added.

Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2008

Full text Solomou case here

http://cmiskp.echr.coe.int/tkp197/porta ... on=request

Isaak here

http://cmiskp.echr.coe.int/tkp197/porta ... on=request

[Kikapu]

You are dilerberatly avoiding the fact that I support that the people in question be accountable yet you yet again display your biased and lay no blame or responsiblity on Soloman who was going up a pole in a highly charged situation where there were plenty of warnings to get him out of danger, what did you expect them to do give him a Blue Peter badge? he went at the bull with a red shirt on knowing full well the damage that can occur when the bull is provoked, he gambled with his life and unfrtunately lost. Dont give me the civilized west crap there are plenty of examples where people have been killed in riots throughout the perfect EU world, or the civilized USA.

I'm not avoiding anything VP. I have stated, that the victims who were murdered, one on the flag pole and the other at the "Mexican Piñata Party" beating to bulb, should have been arrested for trespassing into a zone that was forbidden. Had these victims showed any kind of danger to those who did the killings, one may call it self defence, but they still needed to be investigated and processed in the court of law to find them guilty or not guilty. Since nothing like that has taken placed, makes the murders even more deliberate with the full consent of the "government" at that time.

Well, you are right, that in the West, due to riots, mobs have done nasty things, as in the LA riots in 1990's, but they were not the government employees or agents who did that. But here it is totally different situation, or are you saying that the "trnc's" employees and agents can't be separated from the out of control riot mobs.??

Perhaps you are correct.!!



Sorry, I do not see too many Mexicans at this "Piñata Party", but rather officials who have sworn to uphold the law (I'm being presumptuous of course)) and not become the Judge, Jury and the Executioners with the help of the few locals and you still want to shift the blame to the victims by mocking the dead, whether you should have given them a "Blue Peter Badge" for ignoring warnings. But then again, you believe that unless someone is convicted of a crime, no crime has occurred, despite the above picture. Welcome to the "corrupted society" that I talk about sometimes that Denktash has set up for you all to live in, where one is unable to tell the wrongs from rights. You are once again endorsing Denktash's legacy with your excuses.

Fucking unbelievable.!

[Viewpoint]

GAV has put a valid question forward to test your one sided views and you yet again failed miserably. You were condemning us well before this verdict was announced yet you say not one word that will place an ounce of blame on the GCs why is that? Lets read how you will try to squirm out of this one.

No, Gav does not have a valid point. All he's trying to do is mix oranges with lemons to make justification for the murders by trying to shift blame to others. I'll not let him do that. I don't feel like having any lemons today.........sorry, so let's stick to what it is that we are talking about or does it make you feel uncomfortable.?

I have not talked about this case at all in the past, so you must have me mistaken with someone else. I was aware of the flag pole murder but not the mop style "Mexican Piñata Party" beating to the bulb murder. They were both ugly as hell and those who did this, is exactly where they belong.!!

Just because these acts of murder were committed by members of my community, does not mean I should not speak strongly towards the guilty. I do not need to make justifications on what responsibility the GC's should bear relating to these murders. At the end of the day, two men were murdered when no defence can justify the actions of the guilty, since the victims posed no danger to the guilty. It is that simple and by trying to shift the blame to sanitize the whole crime, will not work with me.

Good try but you are obviously biased in favor of GCs, you show no sympathy towards our sufferings or even remotely an understanding of the TC viewpoint. The death is regretable but he was in the wrong place at the wrong time, he placed himslef in great danger in a very explosive situation and paid the price, do you think any other GC in future will go up a poll and try to rip down a Turkish flag during a full scale riot?

[Brittania]

GAV has put a valid question forward to test your one sided views and you yet again failed miserably. You were condemning us well before this verdict was announced yet you say not one word that will place an ounce of blame on the GCs why is that? Lets read how you will try to squirm out of this one.

No, Gav does not have a valid point. All he's trying to do is mix oranges with lemons to make justification for the murders by trying to shift blame to others. I'll not let him do that. I don't feel like having any lemons today.........sorry, so let's stick to what it is that we are talking about or does it make you feel uncomfortable.?

I have not talked about this case at all in the past, so you must have me mistaken with someone else. I was aware of the flag pole murder but not the mop style "Mexican Piñata Party" beating to the bulb murder. They were both ugly as hell and those who did this, is exactly where they belong.!!

Just because these acts of murder were committed by members of my community, does not mean I should not speak strongly towards the guilty. I do not need to make justifications on what responsibility the GC's should bear relating to these murders. At the end of the day, two men were murdered when no defence can justify the actions of the guilty, since the victims posed no danger to the guilty. It is that simple and by trying to shift the blame to sanitize the whole crime, will not work with me.

Good try but you are obviously biased in favor of GCs, you show no sympathy towards our sufferings or even remotely an understanding of the TC viewpoint. The death is regretable but he was in the wrong place at the wrong time, he placed himslef in great danger in a very explosive situation and paid the price, do you think any other GC in future will go up a poll and try to rip down a Turkish flag during a full scale riot?

Didn't Dr Matsakis rip one off a sentry post a couple of months ago?

[Kikapu]

Good try but you are obviously biased in favor of GCs, you show no sympathy towards our sufferings or even remotely an understanding of the TC viewpoint. The death is regretable but he was in the wrong place at the wrong time, he placed himslef in great danger in a very explosive situation and paid the price, do you think any other GC will go up a poll and try to rip down a Turkish flag during a full scale riot?

I show sympathy to anyone who is mistreated by anyone, regardless who they are. At the same time, I do not protect blatant criminals who ever they are. Rather than trying to defend the indefensible, you should be condemning them in the strongest way possible, but no, you do not do that, instead you want to find others to blame, like me for instance for expanding on what someone else brought this subject to this thread. Can't you find any compassion to the murdered victims as you do for the accused by trying to protect them. You are all gun-ho for Partition but have you been gun-ho to have justice served on the accused. I would not be surprised if you know one or two of these criminals in some form or shape, which may be your reasons for keeping quiet.

do you think any other GC will go up a poll and try to rip down a Turkish flag during a full scale riot.?

Well, I guess you have taught them a lesson VP, at the expense of international community seeing the "trnc" nothing but a lawless "state". A bit like the old Wild Wild West, wouldn't you say.??

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu

I'm not avoiding anything VP. I have stated, that the victims who were murdered, one on the flag pole and the other at the "Mexican Piñata Party" beating to bulb, should have been arrested for trespassing into a zone that was forbidden. Had these victims showed any kind of danger to those who did the killings, one may call it self defence, but they still needed to be investigated and processed in the court of law to find them guilty or not guilty. Since nothing like that has taken placed, makes the murders even more deliberate with the full consent of the "government" at that time.

Unfortunately the feeling of we dont give a shit about the other side in times of conflict such as was the case during these riots is still very real. The lack of cooperation between the north and south with regards to security is another factor which does not help and finally taking into account where this took place in the buffer zone meant that neither sides police force was took responsibility of felt a need to investigate and arrest those caught on film.

Well, you are right, that in the West, due to riots, mobs have done nasty things, as in the LA riots in 1990's, but they were not the government employees or agents who did that. But here it is totally different situation, or are you saying that the "trnc's" employees and agents can't be separated from the out of control riot mobs.??

Have you never seen the authorties of countries using tear gas or jops or tanks and horses to restrain riots, there has also been deaths so to place this incident purely at the feet of the TCs is not fair or right.

Sorry, I do not see too many Mexicans at this "Piñata Party", but rather officials who have sworn to uphold the law (I'm being presumptuous of course)) and not become the Judge, Jury and the Executioners with the help of the few locals and you still want to shift the blame to the victims by mocking the dead, whether you should have given them a "Blue Peter Badge" for ignoring warnings. But then again, you believe that unless someone is convicted of a crime, no crime has occurred, despite the above picture. Welcome to the "corrupted society" that I talk about sometimes that Denktash has set up for you all to live in, where one is unable to tell the wrongs from rights. You are once again endorsing Denktash's legacy with your excuses.

Fucking unbelievable.!

The north has nothing to do with you so your evaluation is neither here nor there so your comments do not really effect us that live in the TRNC.