Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Gav, stop protecting the guilty and stop trying to put the blame on others, because all you are doing is making justification for the Cold Blooded Murderers who are wondering amongst you in the north. When you do not condemn these brutal killings, you might as well condone them. When you don't demand justice to be served on these Cold Blooded Murderers, then you are protecting them. These were nothing more than a barbaric acts at it's worse, and every TC who has not condemned such acts, are guilty by association by allowing these animals to live amongst them in their community, specially when they are identified as the ones who had committed these crimes against the unarmed individuals. So once again, stop looking for excuses and blaming others and start condemning these Cold Blooded Murderers. If not, you are only hurting the TC community in the long run.

He should, not have been anywhere near that pole end of story, if you are warned not to run into a field full mines and ignore all the warnings then whos to blame?

The above post also applies to you VP. Stop making excuses, because that's all you two are doing. You and Gav both are acting like agents in defending these Cold Blooded Murderers. Stop making useless analogies with the burning house or how sacred the damn flag is. There cannot be anything more sacred than Human Life. It's about time you got your god damn priorities straight.

Are you going to condemn these murdering animals or not.???

If you took 2 minutes to read my previous posts you will see that I stated they should be arrested and made accountable but the point I was trying to make was that he jumped into a very danganerous situation, ignored all the warning signs and tried to become a hero by ripping down the Turkish flag. Common sense is a virtue and unfortunately this guy lacked any and he paid for it with his life.

[Viewpoint]

i m not protecting anyone. we knows who is the guilty . who kiled it . shame on him . he should get punished whatsoever . but why anyone here can not see what United Nations foult ????

Gav, if a person runs over your child and killed him/her at a pedestrian crossing because the driver was speeding, who will you blame, the person who built the car, the person who sold the car, the person who put the crossing where your child was killed, or are you going to blame your child. It is a very simple question, so lets see if you are smart enough to get it right.

Judging from your excuses, I doubt it very much.

Playing judge and jury yet again Kikapu, the 2 situations are not the same, the area where Soloman died is a buffer zone armed to the teeth an explosive situation with fighting and mayhem, he should never have been there but the other case you put forward which has no similarity becuase this child was told to cross at that crossing and everything will be OK, the signs for the child were to cross at that point.

[Viewpoint]

thats not an accident . its not same thing . u have to admit UN didnt do enough . it was a mistake and as you can see turkey will pay for the penalty . but why everyone scared to see the UN foult ??? how people dont wanna see that uk planes help todays cyprus problem happen . you have to look wide

I rest my case with you Gav. You are thick as two planks.!!

look kikapu you are nice person . but then how will you explain the murder of Allahverdi Kilic which the GCs passed and shoot him to death in Derynia ???? and they shoot him more then 18 times. and the other guy get disabled after attack . but you know who we blame mainly . the UN which they let them to pass he was 20 years old

I'm only nice to sensible and reasonable people, and not to those who are acting like idiots.

As CopperLine stated, it is no point bringing other cases forward to try and justify what we are talking about now. We are talking about these two cases, because the courts have given their verdict, therefore we know the facts. When we learn the facts of other cases you want to talk about, we will talk about them at that time.

GAV has put a valid question forward to test your one sided views and you yet again failed miserably. You were condemning us well before this verdict was announced yet you say not one word that will place an ounce of blame on the GCs why is that? Lets read how you will try to squirm out of this one.

[Brittania]

Is it too much to acknowledge that police forces and armed forces around the world have shot and killed, detained and tortured, thousands of innocent people ? I can't see much point in the nationalist one-upmanship in this thread that tries to defend the indefensible of one's own police/army's actions only to decry the actions of the other side's police/army.

The issue is surely whether there is accountability which can lead to some sort of justice - that's what the ECHR case is about.

I believe the pics I posted where that of the northern minister of agriculture firing his gun. He's now wanted by interpol i understand.

[Kikapu]

i m not protecting anyone. we knows who is the guilty . who kiled it . shame on him . he should get punished whatsoever . but why anyone here can not see what United Nations foult ????

Gav, if a person runs over your child and killed him/her at a pedestrian crossing because the driver was speeding, who will you blame, the person who built the car, the person who sold the car, the person who put the crossing where your child was killed, or are you going to blame your child. It is a very simple question, so lets see if you are smart enough to get it right.

Judging from your excuses, I doubt it very much.

Playing judge and jury yet again Kikapu, the 2 situations are not the same, the area where Soloman died is a buffer zone armed to the teeth an explosive situation with fighting and mayhem, he should never have been there but the other case you put forward which has no similarity becuase this child was told to cross at that crossing and everything will be OK, the signs for the child were to cross at that point.

On the contrary, you are the one who is condoning what these Murderers did by them playing Judge, Jury and Executioner, by making excuses for them.

The person who was murdered deserved to be arrested for trespassing, damaging property (the flag), charged as such, brought in front of a judge, sentanced and then executed, if what he did carries the death penalty in the "trnc's" legal code. This is how things are done in the western civilization. What was done with the mop killings of these men with sticks, bricks, and bullets is what is/was done in Rwanda, Kenya, Zimbabwe and some other countries that does not respect Human Life.


I gave my example the way I did, because that's how you and Gav are putting the blame on everyone else but the ones who did the killings. The child did not have a chance and neither did these two dead men, because the killers in both cases did not take responsibility to apply proportional due care and diligence to handle the situation as it stood, instead they acted in ways that would result in serious injury and death. They made the choice willingly, and so they should pay the price.

Have these murderers paid the price yet or are they still free to wonder as heroes to some of you in the north.???

[Brittania]

Ladies and Gentlemen...a government minister. Please note the last line of his interview in 31/10/96 for Aktuel

Kenan Akin: "I wish I was there during the incident. I could kill"

Weekly AKTUEL (31.10.96 - 6.11.96) publishes the text of an exclusive interview with Kenan Akin, Minister of Agriculture and Natural Resources. Under the title, "I wish I was there during the incident. I could kill", the interview goes as follows:

"Question: Were you there on the day of the incident?

Akin: In the morning I was there, at around 9:30 I left.

Question: Did you return after the incident?

Akin: No.

Question: Did you see your picture published in the Greek Cypriot press which was taken from television and enlarged?

Akin: Could have. I was not there when the incident took place. But I felt sorry for not being there. I wish I was there. I could have pulled the trigger at least once. I wish I was there, definitely I was going to shoot.

Question: Don't you think that this is an issue to be tackled by the security forces? Apart from this, it is reportedly said that in your election region you were saying that you have killed and you took the responsibility.

Akin: No... During the incident I was on a picnic near the beach with my wife and my child.

Question: Do you have a gun?

Akin: Yes, but I do not carry it.

Question: Following the claims against you, is there any investigation against you by your party, by the government or by the legal organs?

Akin: The esteemed President asked me at one of our meetings. I told him I was on a picnic by the beach with my wife and my child. There was no investigation within the party. Only our general chairman put a question at the party's general assembly. He should have been convinced of what I had said, so that he would not have considered it necessary to establish a commission to open an enquiry.

Question: Do you envisage making any attempt to clear your name of these claims against you by opening an inquiry?

Akin: These are Greek Cypriot lies. The other side are educating their children with Turkish animosity. You are never writing this. Why are you making the killing of a dog sound so important?"

[Viewpoint]

i m not protecting anyone. we knows who is the guilty . who kiled it . shame on him . he should get punished whatsoever . but why anyone here can not see what United Nations foult ????

Gav, if a person runs over your child and killed him/her at a pedestrian crossing because the driver was speeding, who will you blame, the person who built the car, the person who sold the car, the person who put the crossing where your child was killed, or are you going to blame your child. It is a very simple question, so lets see if you are smart enough to get it right.

Judging from your excuses, I doubt it very much.

Playing judge and jury yet again Kikapu, the 2 situations are not the same, the area where Soloman died is a buffer zone armed to the teeth an explosive situation with fighting and mayhem, he should never have been there but the other case you put forward which has no similarity becuase this child was told to cross at that crossing and everything will be OK, the signs for the child were to cross at that point.

On the contrary, you are the one who is condoning what these Murderers did by them playing Judge, Jury and Executioner, by making excuses for them.

The person who was murdered deserved to be arrested for trespassing, damaging property (the flag), charged as such, brought in front of a judge, sentanced and then executed, if what he did carries the death penalty in the "trnc's" legal code. This is how things are done in the western civilization. What was done with the mop killings of these men with sticks, bricks, and bullets is what is/was done in Rwanda, Kenya, Zimbabwe and some other countries that does not respect Human Life.


I gave my example the way I did, because that's how you and Gav are putting the blame on everyone else but the ones who did the killings. The child did not have a chance and neither did these two dead men, because the killers in both cases did not take responsibility to apply proportional due care and diligence to handle the situation as it stood, instead they acted in ways that would result in serious injury and death. They made the choice willingly, and so they should pay the price.

Have these murderers paid the price yet or are they still free to wonder as heroes to some of you in the north.???

You are dilerberatly avoiding the fact that I support that the people in question be accountable yet you yet again display your biased and lay no blame or responsiblity on Soloman who was going up a pole in a highly charged situation where there were plenty of warnings to get him out of danger, what did you expect them to do give him a Blue Peter badge? he went at the bull with a red shirt on knowing full well the damage that can occur when the bull is provoked, he gambled with his life and unfrtunately lost. Dont give me the civilized west crap there are plenty of examples where people have been killed in riots throughout the perfect EU world, or the civilized USA.

[Brittania]

Ladies and Gentlemen...a government minister. Please note the last line of his interview in 31/10/96 for Aktuel

Kenan Akin: "I wish I was there during the incident. I could kill"

Weekly AKTUEL (31.10.96 - 6.11.96) publishes the text of an exclusive interview with Kenan Akin, Minister of Agriculture and Natural Resources. Under the title, "I wish I was there during the incident. I could kill", the interview goes as follows:

"Question: Were you there on the day of the incident?

Akin: In the morning I was there, at around 9:30 I left.

Question: Did you return after the incident?

Akin: No.

Question: Did you see your picture published in the Greek Cypriot press which was taken from television and enlarged?

Akin: Could have. I was not there when the incident took place. But I felt sorry for not being there. I wish I was there. I could have pulled the trigger at least once. I wish I was there, definitely I was going to shoot.

Question: Don't you think that this is an issue to be tackled by the security forces? Apart from this, it is reportedly said that in your election region you were saying that you have killed and you took the responsibility.

Akin: No... During the incident I was on a picnic near the beach with my wife and my child.

Question: Do you have a gun?

Akin: Yes, but I do not carry it.

Question: Following the claims against you, is there any investigation against you by your party, by the government or by the legal organs?

Akin: The esteemed President asked me at one of our meetings. I told him I was on a picnic by the beach with my wife and my child. There was no investigation within the party. Only our general chairman put a question at the party's general assembly. He should have been convinced of what I had said, so that he would not have considered it necessary to establish a commission to open an enquiry.

Question: Do you envisage making any attempt to clear your name of these claims against you by opening an inquiry?

Akin: These are Greek Cypriot lies. The other side are educating their children with Turkish animosity. You are never writing this. Why are you making the killing of a dog sound so important?"

But does the bull then sit for an interview?

[CopperLine]

In the absence of the testimony and court transcripts we can only speculate whether Solomou's killing was disproportionate/unreasonable/unlawful or not. What we know is that this case has gone to the highest court in Europe. You can bet your last shilling that if there were procedural errors at earlier and lower hearings - such as withheld witness testimony, perjury, unreliable evidence, questionable scientific advice, perverse reasoning, etc - then the lawyers would be using this as a basis for the claim.

When taking legal action you're not just saying such and such an action was wrong and against the law or illegal, you have to say under which particular point of law you are making the claim. This is especially the case when pursuing cases through appeal, including the ECHR. So even if an action is un/reasonable to an ordinary citizen - eg attempting to climb a flagpole - the issue is not what you are I would/could have done : the issue is what options are available/closed in law.

So, for example, in many cases (around the world) of soldiers killing civilians in border zones, a standard defence is that the soldier/police officer/border patrol - whose legally assigned job is to protect the border - held a genuine belief that the tresspasser was ignoring his orders to stop, and that these orders were issued with genuine fear to persons or property. Our own reaction might be "you've got to be joking, he's only climbing a crappy flag pole; he's not a threat ....." That is not the point. The point is, does the guy with his finger on the trigger (a) have a duty to protect etc (b) did he act proprtionately/under orders.

In this case the complainants are not contesting (a) - they're acknowledging that a border police etc has a duty to protect. What is at issue, as far as I can tell, is (b) plus the alleged failure to conduct a fair investigation and trial.


On the surface of it, there is nothing that either the GC authorities or the UN can be held accountable for. Saying the UN could/should have done more is simply not the point. No body, as far as I am aware are alleging that the UN killed Solomou, nor that the UN forced him up a flagpole ! It is not them who shot Solomou.

(Kikapu's child road kill is a correct analogue. The child is not the cause of the driver's breaking of the law. The driver and the driver alone is responsible for the control of the vehicle, irrespective of the actions of the child).

[GeorgeV97qaue]

Solomon was grieving because his cousin was killed a few days before. He wasnt thinking straigh hence his actions. To say he must bear some resposiblity is a joke. This is his country not the turkish solders who are occupying cyprus. Their actions are well over the top. Its not the UN's fault its Turkeys. As for the minister Id like to bump into him without his bodyguards the turkish soldiers and see how brave he is then.