Cyprus-Forum.com

[cardiff lad]

As I said before free speech is fine unless its hurts or upsets another person.

Personally I wouldnt normally think about libel and that sort of thing as forums in my mind are somewhere where you can say how you feel as long as you have your facts right and are not making assumptions or giving incorrct information.

People make mistakes and I accept this, i've done it myself as none of us are perfect but mistakes can be made and sometimes they can upset people and give others the wrong view of people.

[Cheshire Cat]

I think there are two matters here, free speech in and outside the forum.

1. Free speech isn't of course free of cost or risk. It can sometimes be free of cost as in when we say " I don't like this government - lets get rid of it" and we've all said something similar. From the safety of our European democracies, that throwaway statement costs us nothing, it poses no personal risk but what if we said it in Zimbabwe ? - well, gosh, then it becomes very, very risky with a very real chance of a knock on your door late one night.

We're not in Zimbabwe, nor are we in places like Saudi Arabia discussing religious freedom, nor are in Turkey or the Occupied Districts discussing the role of the military in government. Those who look to government or other authority for guidance might do well to consider Germany in the ‘30s where the good people of that country democratically elected the most tyrannical and brutal government in human history with total restrictions on free speech. So if we look to governments to decide what is acceptable when discussing the limits of freedom of expression, we should be wary that governments change and I would also say that recently, the moderate western democracies have moved towards regaining control of the citizenry and are slowly restricting free speech. I am fearful that if we allow governments to dictate what we can and can’t say there’s a danger that we are being influenced in the direction of what we can and can’t think as well.

2. Not so long ago our free speech was confined to our own homes, or to the pub or to the cafenion where there was little risk of saying something that would be actioned as libel. Now the internet has made us all in to authors, poets, bloggers, posters, journalists etc. We can all now publish our little gems (ok, not like this one, cos it’s shite) to the whole world and reach a potential audience of 100s of millions with a click of the mouse. For those that fear action for libel I would say do what they teach on the first day at journalism school and that is to make frequent use of the “alleged” word or for variety, preface potentially libellous statements with something like “ I have heard it said that....” In these ways there is no risk of legal action to the poster or to the publishers of the forum. Who are we libelling anyway? Most of us (not all, so be wary?) use a pseudonym and don’t give personal details in their profile page, so are with anything other than characters of our own inventions? How can one fictitious character libel another character?

So where does that leave me now in the context of the Forum. Although I stand by what I say above, well I suppose I’m in that pub again because isn’t the Forum just like a pub? A place you can go and meet your friends and have a chat or even an argument about the colour of curtains or the trivial matters of life like football or the Turkish Problem? I then go on to think, don’t I have to try and respect my friend’s rules a bit and not go all out of my way to offend them? What would my mates say if I refused to live by the century’s old rule of buying my round and instead said something outrageous and I said it loudly and boldly and provocatively ? I know they would take me outside and give me a good slap. Isn’t this what is supposed to happen here when we speak of self-moderation?

So what do I do? Listen to Voltaire and John S. Mill or do I listen to you, you individually, which one of you, the sensitive you? the coarse, thick-skinned and provocative you? you collectively, the lowest common denominator you, a group of you, the other group of you, the well-respected you, the authoritative you ???? Where's the "happy" medium? Is there one?

(Let me here acknowledge publicly and without reservation that within the Forum, but nowhere else and certainly not down the pub and not in any discussion on football, especially not the off-side rule, the greater power of the mods and admin who are, if they will allow me to say so, exceptionally tolerant.)

bill c. ...a “ right idiot “(allegedly)

...must pop another one of those pills. Oh, this one has got a label on it, “Honesty Suppositories...”

I would not swollow that particular pill, it goes in the other end.

[Cheshire Cat]

As I said before free speech is fine unless its hurts or upsets another person.

Personally I wouldnt normally think about libel and that sort of thing as forums in my mind are somewhere where you can say how you feel as long as you have your facts right and are not making assumptions or giving incorrct information.

People make mistakes and I accept this, i've done it myself as none of us are perfect but mistakes can be made and sometimes they can upset people and give others the wrong view of people.

This is how I feel, as adults we should be able to control our temper, Insults and hair pulling should have been left behind in the school playground. There is no place in a civilised society for bullying of any kind.

[bill cobbett]

As I said before free speech is fine unless its hurts or upsets another person.

Personally I wouldnt normally think about libel and that sort of thing as forums in my mind are somewhere where you can say how you feel as long as you have your facts right and are not making assumptions or giving incorrct information.

People make mistakes and I accept this, i've done it myself as none of us are perfect but mistakes can be made and sometimes they can upset people and give others the wrong view of people.

This is how I feel, as adults we should be able to control our temper, Insults and hair pulling should have been left behind in the school playground. There is no place in a civilised society for bullying of any kind.

Hi CC and others. Yes, a bit of self-control, as we used to call it; don't seem to hear this word much nowadays, wouldn't go amiss sometimes but I am still a little confused as to what level of offence to pitch posts because as I say above we are such a varied lot with differing levels of sensitivities.

[Cheshire Cat]

Hi Bill C,

IMHO, insults and above are a definate NO NO !!!, it is normal and natural to disagree, to argue and debate. But
once someone loses control and begins to swear, blaspheme and make personal attacks and threats they have lost the plot totally. for example only I could say Carlsberg is the best beer far better than Keo, another person could say I don't agree with you Keo is definately the best. That is fine. If the disagreements turn into a full blown row, and I called them a w****r and the rest , I have lost the plot and the argument.

By the way I don't like beer, to gassy LOL !!!

[bill cobbett]

Hi Bill C,

IMHO, insults and above are a definate NO NO !!!, it is normal and natural to disagree, to argue and debate. But
once someone loses control and begins to swear, blaspheme and make personal attacks and threats they have lost the plot totally. for example only I could say Carlsberg is the best beer far better than Keo, another person could say I don't agree with you Keo is definately the best. That is fine. If the disagreements turn into a full blown row, and I called them a w****r and the rest , I have lost the plot and the argument.

By the way I don't like beer, to gassy LOL !!!

Presumably you likes cats

I called someone a txssxr a few days ago, someone who questions whether I ( and others) have a right to return to our northern villages. Was that apppropriate ?

What for those members where English is not their first language and struggle to get a point across (tremendous respect to them by the way). Is there a case for turning a blind eye to them when they use fragrant language to emphasise their strength of feeling ?

[Cheshire Cat]

Hi Bill C,

IMHO, insults and above are a definate NO NO !!!, it is normal and natural to disagree, to argue and debate. But
once someone loses control and begins to swear, blaspheme and make personal attacks and threats they have lost the plot totally. for example only I could say Carlsberg is the best beer far better than Keo, another person could say I don't agree with you Keo is definately the best. That is fine. If the disagreements turn into a full blown row, and I called them a w****r and the rest , I have lost the plot and the argument.

By the way I don't like beer, to gassy LOL !!!

Presumably you likes cats

I called someone a txssxr a few days ago, someone who questions whether I ( and others) have a right to return to our northern villages. Was that apppropriate ?

What for those members where English is not their first language and struggle to get a point across (tremendous respect to them by the way). Is there a case for turning a blind eye to them when they use fragrant language to emphasise their strength of feeling ?

Of course you have a right to what is yours, everyone has rights, and those rights should be respected on all sides.
But did using the T word help the situation or did it inflame the mood more ?

I always admire people who are trying to speak in a language which is not there own, maybe using bad language is the only way they can get their point across, by dropping your own standards will in my view not help them to better their English. Misunderstandings are born of using foul language as a matter of everyday speach.

I too have a temper, I would be dead from the neck up if I hadn't, I endeavor to keep it in check though, some people do like to bait to make me lose mine though and it really upsets them when I do not.

You are right Bill, I do like cats but not exclisively, add to them dogs, ducks, pygmy goats, , even a hedgehog for a winter.

I have said before, I am no Angel, I do have bad days like everyone else. I always stop before I say or write something and wonder how I would feel if someone said that to me, my Mum, Dad ,Sister, Daughter.

[bill cobbett]

With the greatest respect CC, by any modern standards "txsser" is a pretty mild form of abuse in this forum and it appeared towards the end of a longer post. So I don't have any great issue with using this word, in moderation. Should I have accused this member of being a player of the pink oboe? Would avoiding the word make it OK? What about the, ever-popular with some here, word, "plonker" ? Would you say that this word is too personally insulting as well?

No personal insults at all, zilch, 0 directed at each other?

(As to blasphemy (religious context ?), always open season.)

[Cheshire Cat]

Why put stress on yourself at all,? why call names ? it does'nt help the situation. Politicians and lawyers are paid a fat salery to take that stress from you. Why buy a dog and bark yourself ?

Sooner or later, the other party will run out of steam ,and that is when serious talks can begin. I am not hostile to either side, I am answering your questions honestly as I see them. If the other person asked the same questions I would say the same thing.

Person insults, what is the point ? I do not believe that when the leaders of both sides sit down, they start name calling and mud slinging. They sit down and talk, if a point comes when they hit a brick wall, both walk away and come back to the table at a later date. Slowly , slowly it will happen without force I believe and no one will feel that they have been cheated.

Bill , I am not for either side, I am neutral, I wish you both well I wish for peace.

[bill cobbett]

My dear CC. Regretfully I have to say it looks as if we are going to agree to disagree and I am wondering to what extent this maybe due to a difference between the two cultures both of which I have experience. (GB and CY - so may you - I do not know). Oh dear, I think I am going to offend some people with the analogy that follows.

Let me put this way, if we'd been invited to dinner in GB, we would speak politely, measuredly and in many cases we wouldn't talk politics. At the CY table, you know the sort where the ladies sit down one end and are expected to talk about lady-like things (usually their medical conditions and recent surgical operations) and the gents are down the male end talking.... politics and "The Turkish Problem" and in many, many (perhaps all) of my experiences, the debate becomes heated, personal with insults flying. The ladies make futile attempts to moderate. Each telling their spouses down the other end to calm down, behave, drink less etc.

So are we at a dinner party in GB or in CY ?