IcyNoAngel wrote:I would say the same s*it to any crap that you say around here even if we were face to face.
Who dares to sue me? Come on
I'm sure you would but not everyone else is the same!
Down boy!!
The Right to Free Speech?
by Niki » Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:04 pm
I'm sure you would but not everyone else is the same!
Down boy!!
-
Niki - Regular Contributor
- Posts: 2441
- Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:02 pm
- Location: UK
by Cheshire Cat » Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:07 pm
IcyNoAngel wrote:I would say the same s*it to any crap that you say around here even if we were face to face.
Who dares to sue me? Come on
And to think I thought you were nice
-
Cheshire Cat - Contributor
- Posts: 757
- Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:46 pm
by IcyNoAngel » Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:03 am
Cheshire Cat wrote:IcyNoAngel wrote:I would say the same s*it to any crap that you say around here even if we were face to face.
Who dares to sue me? Come on
And to think I thought you were nice
Why would you think that? Maybe you were right though.
Do you think that these guys that show off here and just kiss everybody's ass are nice? Is that what you are looking for? I am sorry, I cannot do that.
- IcyNoAngel
- Contributor
- Posts: 674
- Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:55 pm
by Feisty » Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:47 pm
Cheshire Cat wrote:Niki wrote:There is a law called libel or slander to prove that freedom of speech in certain cases is damaging. To write about or to a person in a negative and abusive way is not freedom of speech it is morally wrong and can do immense harm.
Hi Niki,
So, can I run this by you, if person or persons on a forum, said things about you which were untrue, and called you names, you would have the right to sue them, or would it be the forum which would be responsible.
I know quite a lot about this as I did actually sue a forum owner for libel 18 months ago.
A lot of people think they can hide behind an internet personna to commit libel but they can't.
The forum owner cannot be held responsible for what someone writes but can be sued if they fail to take action when they are informed of the libel.
- Feisty
- Contributor
- Posts: 743
- Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 2:13 pm
by Cheshire Cat » Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:11 pm
Interesting Feisty.Very Interesting you and I could talk at length about this. !!!
-
Cheshire Cat - Contributor
- Posts: 757
- Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:46 pm
by bill cobbett » Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:00 pm
I think there are two matters here, free speech in and outside the forum.
1. Free speech isn't of course free of cost or risk. It can sometimes be free of cost as in when we say " I don't like this government - lets get rid of it" and we've all said something similar. From the safety of our European democracies, that throwaway statement costs us nothing, it poses no personal risk but what if we said it in Zimbabwe ? - well, gosh, then it becomes very, very risky with a very real chance of a knock on your door late one night.
We're not in Zimbabwe, nor are we in places like Saudi Arabia discussing religious freedom, nor are in Turkey or the Occupied Districts discussing the role of the military in government. Those who look to government or other authority for guidance might do well to consider Germany in the ‘30s where the good people of that country democratically elected the most tyrannical and brutal government in human history with total restrictions on free speech. So if we look to governments to decide what is acceptable when discussing the limits of freedom of expression, we should be wary that governments change and I would also say that recently, the moderate western democracies have moved towards regaining control of the citizenry and are slowly restricting free speech. I am fearful that if we allow governments to dictate what we can and can’t say there’s a danger that we are being influenced in the direction of what we can and can’t think as well.
2. Not so long ago our free speech was confined to our own homes, or to the pub or to the cafenion where there was little risk of saying something that would be actioned as libel. Now the internet has made us all in to authors, poets, bloggers, posters, journalists etc. We can all now publish our little gems (ok, not like this one, cos it’s shite) to the whole world and reach a potential audience of 100s of millions with a click of the mouse. For those that fear action for libel I would say do what they teach on the first day at journalism school and that is to make frequent use of the “alleged” word or for variety, preface potentially libellous statements with something like “ I have heard it said that....” In these ways there is no risk of legal action to the poster or to the publishers of the forum. Who are we libelling anyway? Most of us (not all, so be wary?) use a pseudonym and don’t give personal details in their profile page, so are with anything other than characters of our own inventions? How can one fictitious character libel another character?
So where does that leave me now in the context of the Forum. Although I stand by what I say above, well I suppose I’m in that pub again because isn’t the Forum just like a pub? A place you can go and meet your friends and have a chat or even an argument about the colour of curtains or the trivial matters of life like football or the Turkish Problem? I then go on to think, don’t I have to try and respect my friend’s rules a bit and not go all out of my way to offend them? What would my mates say if I refused to live by the century’s old rule of buying my round and instead said something outrageous and I said it loudly and boldly and provocatively ? I know they would take me outside and give me a good slap. Isn’t this what is supposed to happen here when we speak of self-moderation?
So what do I do? Listen to Voltaire and John S. Mill or do I listen to you, you individually, which one of you, the sensitive you? the coarse, thick-skinned and provocative you? you collectively, the lowest common denominator you, a group of you, the other group of you, the well-respected you, the authoritative you ???? Where's the "happy" medium? Is there one?
(Let me here acknowledge publicly and without reservation that within the Forum, but nowhere else and certainly not down the pub and not in any discussion on football, especially not the off-side rule, the greater power of the mods and admin who are, if they will allow me to say so, exceptionally tolerant.)
bill c. ...a “ right idiot “(allegedly)
...must pop another one of those pills. Oh, this one has got a label on it, “Honesty Suppositories...”
1. Free speech isn't of course free of cost or risk. It can sometimes be free of cost as in when we say " I don't like this government - lets get rid of it" and we've all said something similar. From the safety of our European democracies, that throwaway statement costs us nothing, it poses no personal risk but what if we said it in Zimbabwe ? - well, gosh, then it becomes very, very risky with a very real chance of a knock on your door late one night.
We're not in Zimbabwe, nor are we in places like Saudi Arabia discussing religious freedom, nor are in Turkey or the Occupied Districts discussing the role of the military in government. Those who look to government or other authority for guidance might do well to consider Germany in the ‘30s where the good people of that country democratically elected the most tyrannical and brutal government in human history with total restrictions on free speech. So if we look to governments to decide what is acceptable when discussing the limits of freedom of expression, we should be wary that governments change and I would also say that recently, the moderate western democracies have moved towards regaining control of the citizenry and are slowly restricting free speech. I am fearful that if we allow governments to dictate what we can and can’t say there’s a danger that we are being influenced in the direction of what we can and can’t think as well.
2. Not so long ago our free speech was confined to our own homes, or to the pub or to the cafenion where there was little risk of saying something that would be actioned as libel. Now the internet has made us all in to authors, poets, bloggers, posters, journalists etc. We can all now publish our little gems (ok, not like this one, cos it’s shite) to the whole world and reach a potential audience of 100s of millions with a click of the mouse. For those that fear action for libel I would say do what they teach on the first day at journalism school and that is to make frequent use of the “alleged” word or for variety, preface potentially libellous statements with something like “ I have heard it said that....” In these ways there is no risk of legal action to the poster or to the publishers of the forum. Who are we libelling anyway? Most of us (not all, so be wary?) use a pseudonym and don’t give personal details in their profile page, so are with anything other than characters of our own inventions? How can one fictitious character libel another character?
So where does that leave me now in the context of the Forum. Although I stand by what I say above, well I suppose I’m in that pub again because isn’t the Forum just like a pub? A place you can go and meet your friends and have a chat or even an argument about the colour of curtains or the trivial matters of life like football or the Turkish Problem? I then go on to think, don’t I have to try and respect my friend’s rules a bit and not go all out of my way to offend them? What would my mates say if I refused to live by the century’s old rule of buying my round and instead said something outrageous and I said it loudly and boldly and provocatively ? I know they would take me outside and give me a good slap. Isn’t this what is supposed to happen here when we speak of self-moderation?
So what do I do? Listen to Voltaire and John S. Mill or do I listen to you, you individually, which one of you, the sensitive you? the coarse, thick-skinned and provocative you? you collectively, the lowest common denominator you, a group of you, the other group of you, the well-respected you, the authoritative you ???? Where's the "happy" medium? Is there one?
(Let me here acknowledge publicly and without reservation that within the Forum, but nowhere else and certainly not down the pub and not in any discussion on football, especially not the off-side rule, the greater power of the mods and admin who are, if they will allow me to say so, exceptionally tolerant.)
bill c. ...a “ right idiot “(allegedly)
...must pop another one of those pills. Oh, this one has got a label on it, “Honesty Suppositories...”
-
bill cobbett - Leading Contributor
- Posts: 15759
- Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 5:20 pm
- Location: Embargoed from Kyrenia by Jurkish Army and Genocided (many times) by Thieving, Brain-Washed Lordo
by bill cobbett » Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:44 pm
Sotos wrote: but not be free to harm the rights and the freedoms of others.
Said by Sotos - CY Forum 2008 and by John Stuart Mill (more or less) in "On Liberty" (1859)
-
bill cobbett - Leading Contributor
- Posts: 15759
- Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 5:20 pm
- Location: Embargoed from Kyrenia by Jurkish Army and Genocided (many times) by Thieving, Brain-Washed Lordo
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest
© 2002 - 2015 Cyprus-Forum.com
