Cyprus-Forum.com

[denizaksulu]

[quote=]git bir gavur yarak ye madem seven.

The way comments like this slip through the net demonstrates the need for a TC moderator on this forum. The above language is totally unacceptable. If Oracle is to be gagged, then Big Al should also be called to account for this reply.

You know the irony,dear Tim???
Turks would look down on him for speaking with a strong TC dialect like that..."madem seven" is pure Turkish Cypriot used at the end of the sentence...I love it...it put a smile on my face to read such expressive TC language...

I am not so sure about that. "Devrik cümleler" (sentences in which normal word order is altered for emphasis) of this kind are also a common feature of mainland Turkish colloquial speech.

I agree with you, though, that Cypriot Turkish is wonderful, even if I have problems understanding it.

Yes,but a mainlander would say "mademki seviyorsun" veya "mademki seversin",never "madem seven"!!! Unless they grew up in Cyprus,of course.... [/quote]


The end letter 'n' is the saghir nun of the Ottoman alphabet. So Seven as is written here is a remnant of the Ottoman glossary. Cyprus only belatedly adopted the new 'Harf Inkilabi' from Turkey (post Republic years). Therefore the older generation or 'villagers' ot the uneducated would still use that ending. In my opinion, 'middle school'/Orta Okul or 'Lise' graduates would be using the newer Turkish endings as pointed out by BK (seviyor/seviyorsun etc.)

[Tim Drayton]

[quote=]git bir gavur yarak ye madem seven.

The way comments like this slip through the net demonstrates the need for a TC moderator on this forum. The above language is totally unacceptable. If Oracle is to be gagged, then Big Al should also be called to account for this reply.

You know the irony,dear Tim???
Turks would look down on him for speaking with a strong TC dialect like that..."madem seven" is pure Turkish Cypriot used at the end of the sentence...I love it...it put a smile on my face to read such expressive TC language...

I am not so sure about that. "Devrik cümleler" (sentences in which normal word order is altered for emphasis) of this kind are also a common feature of mainland Turkish colloquial speech.

I agree with you, though, that Cypriot Turkish is wonderful, even if I have problems understanding it.

Yes,but a mainlander would say "mademki seviyorsun" veya "mademki seversin",never "madem seven"!!! Unless they grew up in Cyprus,of course.... [/quote]

I am with you now. Just like "biling" menas "biliyorsun", so "seveng" is the equivalent "seviyorsun". I was trying to interpret the sentence with "seven" as a participle form. Like I said, I am not good at Cypriot Turkish (yet).

[denizaksulu]

[quote=]git bir gavur yarak ye madem seven.

The way comments like this slip through the net demonstrates the need for a TC moderator on this forum. The above language is totally unacceptable. If Oracle is to be gagged, then Big Al should also be called to account for this reply.

You know the irony,dear Tim???
Turks would look down on him for speaking with a strong TC dialect like that..."madem seven" is pure Turkish Cypriot used at the end of the sentence...I love it...it put a smile on my face to read such expressive TC language...

I am not so sure about that. "Devrik cümleler" (sentences in which normal word order is altered for emphasis) of this kind are also a common feature of mainland Turkish colloquial speech.

I agree with you, though, that Cypriot Turkish is wonderful, even if I have problems understanding it.

Yes,but a mainlander would say "mademki seviyorsun" veya "mademki seversin",never "madem seven"!!! Unless they grew up in Cyprus,of course....

I am with you now. Just like "biling" menas "biliyorsun", so "seveng" is the equivalent "seviyorsun". I was trying to interpret the sentence with "seven" as a participle form. Like I said, I am not good at Cypriot Turkish (yet).[/quote]

Thats right Tim. In the Ottoman Turkish the letter 'Saghir Nun' does not mean 'deaf N' . 'Saghir' means 'little/small from Arabic. Its their way to describe the letter itself. The 'sound' itself has all but disappeared (in Turkey) but 'luckily' still around in Cyprus.

Come to think of it, what about 'saghir yilan'. I suppose it will mean 'small snake' as opposed to 'deaf snake'. I remeber old folk talking about that particular snake being deaf, but nowI think it refers to size.

[Tim Drayton]

Yes, I had realised from browsing through etymological dictionaries that this Cypriot Turkish verb ending using what phoneticians would describe as a velar nasal (the English "ng" sound) is actually a very old Turkish phoneme that has been lost in standard Republican Turkish.

I used to know quite a few people from Kars in Turkey, and I am sure in their dialect they use a form like "biling" for "bilirsin/biliyorsun", and they also mark question forms with rising intonation in a pattern that is identical to that used by Turkish Cypriots, so that "biling?" means "biliyor musun?".

The following discussion might interest you:

http://sozluk.sourtimes.org/show.asp?t=sen+biling

Whilst we are on the subject, does Cypriot Turkish make a distinction between the habitual "giderim"(I go) and "gidiyorum" (I am going)? Or is there only one present tense verb form?

Sadly, this dialect seems to be dying very fast.

[denizaksulu]

Yes, I had realised from browsing through etymological dictionaries that this Cypriot Turkish verb ending using what phoneticians would describe as a velar nasal (the English "ng" sound) is actually a very old Turkish phoneme that has been lost in standard Republican Turkish.

I used to know quite a few people from Kars in Turkey, and I am sure in their dialect they use a form like "biling" for "bilirsin/biliyorsun", and they also mark question forms with rising intonation in a pattern that is identical to that used by Turkish Cypriots, so that "biling?" means "biliyor musun?".

The following discussion might interest you:

http://sozluk.sourtimes.org/show.asp?t=sen+biling

Whilst we are on the subject, does Cypriot Turkishabitual "giderim"(I go) and "gidiyorum" (I am going)? h make a distinction between the Or is there only one present tense verb form?

Sadly, this dialect seems to be dying very fast.

I believe the distinction is still there. Thank you . I do enjoy etymology and origins of languages.

[denizaksulu]

Yes, I had realised from browsing through etymological dictionaries that this Cypriot Turkish verb ending using what phoneticians would describe as a velar nasal (the English "ng" sound) is actually a very old Turkish phoneme that has been lost in standard Republican Turkish.

I used to know quite a few people from Kars in Turkey, and I am sure in their dialect they use a form like "biling" for "bilirsin/biliyorsun", and they also mark question forms with rising intonation in a pattern that is identical to that used by Turkish Cypriots, so that "biling?" means "biliyor musun?".

The following discussion might interest you:

http://sozluk.sourtimes.org/show.asp?t=sen+biling

Whilst we are on the subject, does Cypriot Turkishabitual "giderim"(I go) and "gidiyorum" (I am going)? h make a distinction between the Or is there only one present tense verb form?

Sadly, this dialect seems to be dying very fast.

I believe the distinction is still there. Thank you . I do enjoy etymology and origins of languages.

Interesting dialogue. The 'Kutadgi Bilig' also uses these endings copiously.

[Tim Drayton]

Yes, I had realised from browsing through etymological dictionaries that this Cypriot Turkish verb ending using what phoneticians would describe as a velar nasal (the English "ng" sound) is actually a very old Turkish phoneme that has been lost in standard Republican Turkish.

I used to know quite a few people from Kars in Turkey, and I am sure in their dialect they use a form like "biling" for "bilirsin/biliyorsun", and they also mark question forms with rising intonation in a pattern that is identical to that used by Turkish Cypriots, so that "biling?" means "biliyor musun?".

The following discussion might interest you:

http://sozluk.sourtimes.org/show.asp?t=sen+biling

Whilst we are on the subject, does Cypriot Turkishabitual "giderim"(I go) and "gidiyorum" (I am going)? h make a distinction between the Or is there only one present tense verb form?

Sadly, this dialect seems to be dying very fast.

I believe the distinction is still there. Thank you . I do enjoy etymology and origins of languages.

So "giding" would be "gidiyorsun" (you are going) and the form "gidersin" (you go) also exists in Turkish Cypriot dialect, is that right?

[denizaksulu]

Yes, I had realised from browsing through etymological dictionaries that this Cypriot Turkish verb ending using what phoneticians would describe as a velar nasal (the English "ng" sound) is actually a very old Turkish phoneme that has been lost in standard Republican Turkish.

I used to know quite a few people from Kars in Turkey, and I am sure in their dialect they use a form like "biling" for "bilirsin/biliyorsun", and they also mark question forms with rising intonation in a pattern that is identical to that used by Turkish Cypriots, so that "biling?" means "biliyor musun?".

The following discussion might interest you:

http://sozluk.sourtimes.org/show.asp?t=sen+biling

Whilst we are on the subject, does Cypriot Turkishabitual "giderim"(I go) and "gidiyorum" (I am going)? h make a distinction between the Or is there only one present tense verb form?

Sadly, this dialect seems to be dying very fast.

I believe the distinction is still there. Thank you . I do enjoy etymology and origins of languages.

So "giding" would be "gidiyorsun" (you are going) and the form "gidersin" (you go) also exists in Turkish Cypriot dialect, is that right?

....as in nereye gedersin = nereye gidiyorsun.


the first word would have been gideng? as a question.

If I remember rightly, in Orta Okul/Secondary schools, only new (Republican) spelling would enable you to pass the 'Turkce Dilbilgisi'. I can not imagine the position being reversed, Not with all the settlers and Turkeys more direct control /supervision of the education system. Our teachers were from Turkey. We also had Turkish aducated TCs too.

[halil]

Deniz and Tim here is the link for you . İ bet you will enjoy it .


Turkish Cypriot Idioms Search Engine


http://www.stwing.upenn.edu/~durduran/c ... ndex.shtml

[Tim Drayton]

Yes, I had realised from browsing through etymological dictionaries that this Cypriot Turkish verb ending using what phoneticians would describe as a velar nasal (the English "ng" sound) is actually a very old Turkish phoneme that has been lost in standard Republican Turkish.

I used to know quite a few people from Kars in Turkey, and I am sure in their dialect they use a form like "biling" for "bilirsin/biliyorsun", and they also mark question forms with rising intonation in a pattern that is identical to that used by Turkish Cypriots, so that "biling?" means "biliyor musun?".

The following discussion might interest you:

http://sozluk.sourtimes.org/show.asp?t=sen+biling

Whilst we are on the subject, does Cypriot Turkishabitual "giderim"(I go) and "gidiyorum" (I am going)? h make a distinction between the Or is there only one present tense verb form?

Sadly, this dialect seems to be dying very fast.

I believe the distinction is still there. Thank you . I do enjoy etymology and origins of languages.

So "giding" would be "gidiyorsun" (you are going) and the form "gidersin" (you go) also exists in Turkish Cypriot dialect, is that right?

....as in nereye gedersin = nereye gidiyorsun.


the first word would have been gideng? as a question.

If I remember rightly, in Orta Okul/Secondary schools, only new (Republican) spelling would enable you to pass the 'Turkce Dilbilgisi'. I can not imagine the position being reversed, Not with all the settlers and Turkeys more direct control /supervision of the education system. Our teachers were from Turkey. We also had Turkish aducated TCs too.

I appreciate that. When I am in the north of Nicosia I always go to the last remaining Turkish Cypriot coffee shop within the walled part of the city. Virtually all the regulars here are aged over sixty and speak real Cypriot Turkish (and Cypriot Greek), and I enjoy just sitting and listening to this language being spoken. The younger generation all seem to speak 'proper' Turkish. Maybe that's progress - I don't know.