Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

"A final solution", please be careful of phraseology like that!!!

Half the troops, with the same armor and air power is more than enough to keep the TRNC safe, assuming there is a threat. Like Tim points out above, the TCs move and work in the RoC with no problem at all. But then the presence of the troops is not there to keep GCs out, but to keep TCs under. And that is a problem they will have to deal with and solve by themselves.

[Bill]

You can remove 75% of Turkish troops from the occupied area without any of your perceived protection being compromised.

There is only one reason there are so many troops stationed there and that's because Turkey is making a statement that the north of the island is theirs ~ and always will be ~ it's got absolutely nothing to do with protection of TC's at all.

With Turkeys close proximity to the northern shores of Cyprus and their known military might they could neutralise any possible GC attack within minutes so in reality 40,000 troops are totally unnecessary.

Bill

[Viewpoint]

"A final solution", please be careful of phraseology like that!!!

Half the troops, with the same armor and air power is more than enough to keep the TRNC safe, assuming there is a threat. Like Tim points out above, the TCs move and work in the RoC with no problem at all. But then the presence of the troops is not there to keep GCs out, but to keep TCs under. And that is a problem they will have to deal with and solve by themselves.

The reason why there are no conflicts since the borders were opened is that if and when any thing happens it is clearly the fault of the other side and no one will dispute this, so neither side can risk this, being mixed is the problem no one can detect who caused the conflict and both sides blame each other as was the case in the past. The TCs that go south do not have any claims on the "RoC" they accept being foreigners, they sell their cheap labour but come home to the TRNC every night.

[CopperLine]

I agree broadly with Bill and Nikitas insofar as a substantial reduction and withdrawal in military personnel is not going to compromise basic TC security. Equally much of Turkish army presence on Cyprus is about Turkish nationalism and not about TC welfare. Nevertheless TC welfare or sense of security is not to be so easily dismissed as empty - amongst some there remains genuine concern. That has to be acknowledged and sensitively addressed.

The irony is that if the initiative came from Turkey to announce a staged and deliberate troop reduction it would be a major diplomatic gain for Turkey. Unfortunately, again, the domination of the military in Turkish political life, including foreign policy and EU relations, means that the diplomatic imagination is severely stunted.

Again I would simply argue that island wide demilitarisation, including SBA, is the most effective first step in resolving the Cyrpus question. Starting with Turkish troop reduction would be an excellent place to start.

[Viewpoint]

I agree broadly with Bill and Nikitas insofar as a substantial reduction and withdrawal in military personnel is not going to compromise basic TC security. Equally much of Turkish army presence on Cyprus is about Turkish nationalism and not about TC welfare. Nevertheless TC welfare or sense of security is not to be so easily dismissed as empty - amongst some there remains genuine concern. That has to be acknowledged and sensitively addressed.

The irony is that if the initiative came from Turkey to announce a staged and deliberate troop reduction it would be a major diplomatic gain for Turkey. Unfortunately, again, the domination of the military in Turkish political life, including foreign policy and EU relations, means that the diplomatic imagination is severely stunted.

Again I would simply argue that island wide demilitarisation, including SBA, is the most effective first step in resolving the Cyrpus question. Starting with Turkish troop reduction would be an excellent place to start.

The partial removal isolation (eg recognition of Ercan airport) on the north could also be regarded as a major diplomatic gain for the GCs, why dont they take this step?

[CopperLine]

I agree broadly with Bill and Nikitas insofar as a substantial reduction and withdrawal in military personnel is not going to compromise basic TC security. Equally much of Turkish army presence on Cyprus is about Turkish nationalism and not about TC welfare. Nevertheless TC welfare or sense of security is not to be so easily dismissed as empty - amongst some there remains genuine concern. That has to be acknowledged and sensitively addressed.

The irony is that if the initiative came from Turkey to announce a staged and deliberate troop reduction it would be a major diplomatic gain for Turkey. Unfortunately, again, the domination of the military in Turkish political life, including foreign policy and EU relations, means that the diplomatic imagination is severely stunted.

Again I would simply argue that island wide demilitarisation, including SBA, is the most effective first step in resolving the Cyrpus question. Starting with Turkish troop reduction would be an excellent place to start.

The partial removal isolation (eg recognition of Ercan airport) on the north could also be regarded as a major diplomatic gain for the GCs, why dont they take this step?

Good idea. I agree. Instead of linking each and every item in a "if-you-do-this,-I'll-do-that" way, each side could take a unilateral initiative to break the logjam and insodoing build confidence in the other. Piece by piece, step by step.

If we think that a comperhensive settlement approach has had a poor and slow track record (ultimately leading to a failed Annan plan) then why not try an incremental confidence building approach.

[BirKibrisli]

I agree broadly with Bill and Nikitas insofar as a substantial reduction and withdrawal in military personnel is not going to compromise basic TC security. Equally much of Turkish army presence on Cyprus is about Turkish nationalism and not about TC welfare. Nevertheless TC welfare or sense of security is not to be so easily dismissed as empty - amongst some there remains genuine concern. That has to be acknowledged and sensitively addressed.

The irony is that if the initiative came from Turkey to announce a staged and deliberate troop reduction it would be a major diplomatic gain for Turkey. Unfortunately, again, the domination of the military in Turkish political life, including foreign policy and EU relations, means that the diplomatic imagination is severely stunted.

Again I would simply argue that island wide demilitarisation, including SBA, is the most effective first step in resolving the Cyrpus question. Starting with Turkish troop reduction would be an excellent place to start.

The partial removal isolation (eg recognition of Ercan airport) on the north could also be regarded as a major diplomatic gain for the GCs, why dont they take this step?

Good idea. I agree. Instead of linking each and every item in a "if-you-do-this,-I'll-do-that" way, each side could take a unilateral initiative to break the logjam and insodoing build confidence in the other. Piece by piece, step by step.

If we think that a comperhensive settlement approach has had a poor and slow track record (ultimately leading to a failed Annan plan) then why not try an incremental confidence building approach.

Even symbolic gestures like removing the monstrous Turkish flag from the Besparmak mountains,and getting rid of the Greek national anthem would go a long way...sometimes I get so frustrated thinking about all the lost years in which both sides could've done so much to build confidence,improve understanding,trust,respect...It seems much more important to hit each other on the head at every opportunity then risk peace breaking out and enjoying the fruits of it...

[Viewpoint]

I agree broadly with Bill and Nikitas insofar as a substantial reduction and withdrawal in military personnel is not going to compromise basic TC security. Equally much of Turkish army presence on Cyprus is about Turkish nationalism and not about TC welfare. Nevertheless TC welfare or sense of security is not to be so easily dismissed as empty - amongst some there remains genuine concern. That has to be acknowledged and sensitively addressed.

The irony is that if the initiative came from Turkey to announce a staged and deliberate troop reduction it would be a major diplomatic gain for Turkey. Unfortunately, again, the domination of the military in Turkish political life, including foreign policy and EU relations, means that the diplomatic imagination is severely stunted.

Again I would simply argue that island wide demilitarisation, including SBA, is the most effective first step in resolving the Cyrpus question. Starting with Turkish troop reduction would be an excellent place to start.

The partial removal isolation (eg recognition of Ercan airport) on the north could also be regarded as a major diplomatic gain for the GCs, why dont they take this step?

Good idea. I agree. Instead of linking each and every item in a "if-you-do-this,-I'll-do-that" way, each side could take a unilateral initiative to break the logjam and insodoing build confidence in the other. Piece by piece, step by step.

If we think that a comperhensive settlement approach has had a poor and slow track record (ultimately leading to a failed Annan plan) then why not try an incremental confidence building approach.

Even symbolic gestures like removing the monstrous Turkish flag from the Besparmak mountains,and getting rid of the Greek national anthem would go a long way...sometimes I get so frustrated thinking about all the lost years in which both sides could've done so much to build confidence,improve understanding,trust,respect...It seems much more important to hit each other on the head at every opportunity then risk peace breaking out and enjoying the fruits of it...

The GCs would never allow direct flights as this would be a form of recognition which they cannot even contemplate let alone allow.

[Kifeas]

I agree broadly with Bill and Nikitas insofar as a substantial reduction and withdrawal in military personnel is not going to compromise basic TC security. Equally much of Turkish army presence on Cyprus is about Turkish nationalism and not about TC welfare. Nevertheless TC welfare or sense of security is not to be so easily dismissed as empty - amongst some there remains genuine concern. That has to be acknowledged and sensitively addressed.

The irony is that if the initiative came from Turkey to announce a staged and deliberate troop reduction it would be a major diplomatic gain for Turkey. Unfortunately, again, the domination of the military in Turkish political life, including foreign policy and EU relations, means that the diplomatic imagination is severely stunted.

Again I would simply argue that island wide demilitarisation, including SBA, is the most effective first step in resolving the Cyrpus question. Starting with Turkish troop reduction would be an excellent place to start.

The partial removal isolation (eg recognition of Ercan airport) on the north could also be regarded as a major diplomatic gain for the GCs, why dont they take this step?

In other words, you basically want recognition of the "TRNC" by the GCs, as a "symbolic" goodwill gesture!

[CopperLine]

In other words, you basically want recognition of the "TRNC" by the GCs, as a "symbolic" goodwill gesture!

No, not necessarily Kifeas. It might go that way, but it might not need to go that way. There could be a gradual settlement of Cyprus through gradual integration in the EU.