Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

VP, if you quote for me here the actual statement, as it was made, then I will definitely tell you if my leader was lying, or if someone else is in fact lying here!

[repulsewarrior]

your point is well taken Kifeas, and thus the difficulty in defining these word's meaning.

In terms of territory, regarding geography, component would be more appropriate, as in a Bizonal territory, each constituency with its components, but that too demands some modification in the thinking at present, so that the island does not remain torn in two. Regarding territory, there is as you say, no constituency but that of the Republic of Cyprus, which suffers from the illegal occupation of a notable portion of it's territory by the Turkish Army. As I have said before, only a Greek National Assembly can give the Turkish Constituency an identity that makes it a counterpart, in "founding" some relationship within the State. Bizonal must include enclaves if the territory is made up of components, so that the Rights of the Displaced can be addressed as communities, as well as establishing the possibility that in the future our changing demograhics can have a geographic identity that suits the needs of all citizens, sustaining them as persons, as well as individuals.

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/arti ... sid=106819

this is the only article I can find which approached the word "founding", it is interesting as a perspective, but it is not clear, what exactly was said or agreed to by the leadership in its regard.

[Kifeas]

your point is well taken Kifeas, and thus the difficulty in defining these word's meaning.

In terms of territory, regarding geography, component would be more appropriate, as in a Bizonal territory, each constituency with its components, but that too demands some modification in the thinking at present, so that the island does not remain torn in two. Regarding territory, there is as you say, no constituency but that of the Republic of Cyprus, which suffers from the illegal occupation of a notable portion of it's territory by the Turkish Army. As I have said before, only a Greek National Assembly can give the Turkish Constituency an identity that makes it a counterpart, in "founding" some relationship within the State. Bizonal must include enclaves if the territory is made up of components, so that the Rights of the Displaced can be addressed as communities, as well as establishing the possibility that in the future our changing demograhics can have a geographic identity that suits the needs of all citizens, sustaining them as persons, as well as individuals.

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/arti ... sid=106819

this is the only article I can find which approached the word "founding", it is interesting as a perspective, but it is not clear, what exactly was said or agreed to by the leadership in its regard.

Repulse, this article is rubbish! Do not take it seriously!

It says, for example, that "... I think it could be better to use the word “former” because the federation will be “formed” by two federal states as it is voiced in the document."

Nowhere in the document (joined communiqué) does it say that the federation will be formed by the two federal states! It only says that the federation -the federal government as well as the two federal (constituent) states, will all be formed as BY-PRODUCTS of the (already existing since 1960) partnership between the two COMMUNITIES, as they (communities) are represented in all the numerous rounds of negotiations by their (two) community leaders!

The two communities, as they were defined in the 1960 RoC constitution, do not have a territorial dimension, but they belong to the whole of Cyprus, universally and inseparably! As we know, the two communities in Cyprus, de jure, used to live intermixed, and they did not exclusively posses or owned any separate geographical territories! They were not defined on the basis of territorial attributes, but instead only on the basis of cultural attributes! We will never accept any redefinition of this concept or term!

[Viewpoint]

VP, if you quote for me here the actual statement, as it was made, then I will definitely tell you if my leader was lying, or if someone else is in fact lying here!

Your own quote Kifeas,

Christofias gave in!

Today it should be marked as a dark day in the annals of the Greek Cypriot community! Christofias, knowingly or unknowingly - intentionally or unintentionally, has given in to the Turkish demands for the dissolution of the RoC and the via “virgin-birth” establishment of a new entity which will be based on the partnership of two separate and ethnically based and owned entities! Not only he gave up the sovereignty of the RoC, by recognizing sovereignty to the “TRNC,” as a constituent partner of the new “federal” entity, but he also gave up the RoC as an entity -in its entireness, and accepted its devaluation to a Greek Cypriot constituent state!

The following line in the joined communiqué, after today’s meeting between Christofias and Talat, will be proved detrimental to the future of re-unification of Cyprus, and to the historical rights of the Greek Cypriot community in the northern part of our country! It is a disaster! No matter what will be said about this meeting and the joined communiqué, the damage is tremendous, and history will prove me right! I have no hope to any re-reunification solution! Unfortunately my fears about Christofias are proved to have been justified! He has proven himself inferior to his undertaken position and role!

Quote:
``They reaffirmed their commitment for a bizonal bicommunal federation with political equality, as defined by relevant Security Council resolutions. This partnership will have a federal government with a single international personality, as well as a Turkish Cypriot constituent state and a Greek Cypriot constituent state which will be of equal status,``

http://www.cna.org.cy/website/english/a ... 2.asp?id=1


Christofias did not "bother" securing that this "partnership" will be on the basis of the two communities, as such, instead of the two states! He further did not "bother" securing that this "partnership" is not an entirely new partnership but a re-development of the existing 1960 bi-communal RoC partnership! He did not bother seeking a definition of what the adjectives "Turkish Cypriot" and "Greek Cypriot" states should imply, living in this way the cultural and political rights of the members of the Greek Cypriot in the north under jeopardy and potential eradication! He even accepted the use of the term "constituent" states, instead of "component" states; allowing in this way the Turkish side to claim and insist that the two states will be the constituents (will constitute) the central government, instead of being mere components of a one and single federal nation-state! He accepted the same philosophy of the rejected by the 76% of the GCs Anan plan 5! What a shame!

PS: And before some idiots will tell me that I did not comment on the closure for a “single international personality,” I say before hand that this is nonsense! It means nothing! It is just like saying that the EU has a one single international personality, or that the UN as an organization has one single international personality! It is meaningless, because if under the veil of this “single international personality,” two separate entities may function and regulate the everyday life of the people (citizens) of this country in separatist and apartheid ways, and under prejudicing constitutions and laws (as the case seems to be,) this is what counts to the individual citizens, and not if the international personality of such a monstrosity will be single or multiple!

You GCs have this knack of forgetting or ignoring what does not suit you, why is that?

[Nikitas]

"This partnership WILL have....."

Please note the future tense. There is a difference between has and will have. Once BBF is agreed then it will have two constituent states. Basic grammar shows what is meant here.

[Nikitas]

To add to the above. Even as a constituen or component or however you want to cal it state in a federation, the entity will have to be defined in terms of territory, population and legal structure. There is no way in hell that the TRNC can qualify now as one of the constituent states. Neither can the RoC be regarded as a constituent state. The RoC is the state which will evolve into the BBF state in the future and will contain the two constituents.

[Viewpoint]

To add to the above. Even as a constituen or component or however you want to cal it state in a federation, the entity will have to be defined in terms of territory, population and legal structure. There is no way in hell that the TRNC can qualify now as one of the constituent states. Neither can the RoC be regarded as a constituent state. The RoC is the state which will evolve into the BBF state in the future and will contain the two constituents.

Can you be more specific? are you saying there will be no virgin birth and that the "RoC" will evolve into a Federated structure?

[repulsewarrior]

...in my mind VP, 'virgin birth' occurs when the Greek Cypriots create for themselves a constituency that works as a counterpart to its Turkish Cypriot equivalent. The Republic of Cyprus will reform its Constitution so that it can conform to the standards of the EU while it upholds the principal of Bicommunality on which it was founded. And as it has been agreed by the two leaders, it will be called the United Republic of Cyprus. This Government which is central to both "Greeks" and "Turks" we hope will be free of any bias which may threaten its ability to secure for us our Sovereignty as the island's dwellers, and in the defense of our Individual Rights.