Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

I remember Kifeas saying how wrong was Christofias to make that statement. I think Kifeas was right. We shouldn't give to them even half excuse because they will try to use it!

Yes Sotos, I did criticize Christofias for allowing the use of the term "constituent states" in the joint communiqué with Talat, and I am not happy at all that I was proved right as to how the Turkish side would have tried to make use of it. Anyone knowing just a little bit of how opportunistically the Turkish establishment thinks politically, and how it’s corrupted Kemalist ideological foundation -which is based on distortion, deception and manipulation, has made it function; should have had no doubt as to what use they would have tried to make of this or anything else for this matter.

The term Constituent may accept a dual interpretation, and this is obviously something unfortunately Christofias and his stupid advisor G. Iacovou did not know. One wonders, if Iacovou (because Christofia’s English is inadequate anyway) doesn't know such a basic fact of English political and legal terminology, what else he does not know and what is he doing there as Christofia’s advisor in the first place?

The term "constituent" state may have the same meaning with the term "component" state, in a situation in which a former sovereign, unitary (centralized) state (i.e. the case of the RoC) evolves into a federative one, and grants an amount of its own inherent powers to the component states, usually for internal affair policies and legislating. It (the term constituent) may also take the meaning of a "co-founder state," in which case two or more, former independently sovereign states, come together and form (constitute) one central (federal) government, to which they (the pre-existing sovereign states) grant an amount of their own inherent powers, usually for international affairs and common defense.

The good thing in this joined communiqué, was that the way it was syntaxed allows for the GC side to rightfully and affectively argue that the term "constituent" that was used, was with the same meaning to that of the "component" states, instead of that of "co-founding" states that the Turkish side is trying to argue it has been. I hope it was not by accident that the syntax was chosen in such a way, and it was only by accident that the term 'constituent" was used instead, otherwise we are in serious trouble for being in the hands of grossly incompetent people trying to represent us.

[Nikitas]

Another illustration of the deep rooted cynicism that characterises Turkey. Kifeas had been right all along.

The GC side is offering BBF on a plate, but that is NOT the point for Turkey. THe point is to set the scene for a future secssion from the BBF and creation of an independent republic in the north, with international recognition and then proceed to the takeover of the whole island. Note also the reaction to the single nationality expressed by Avci two days ago.

[Viewpoint]

We're celebrating cause we stopped the Americans from saying something that Christofias said?

If he's so paranoid about the 2 constituent states statement being abused he should have never said it.

My friend, the Cypriot Republic is happy with the resolution than i am happy with the resolution, period. As far as Christofias signing off on the 2 constituent states, well as he mentioned, he has a different understanding of what that means than what the Turkish Cypriots would like it to mean. That much is clearly mentioned in the article itself. At any event, i did not vote for Christofias but he is doing a splendid job as far as i can tell. All i am hearing from Talat in the press this past month are warnings, anger peppered with a dash of furious emotions. Whether it be Brussels, London, Paris, the UN, or Washington; i am hearing a tone coming from them that i have not heard in a long time and that tone is a tone of praise for this government. Set party bickering aside and take a look at the press. The Cypriot president is calling for Turkish army withdrawal and is telling Ankara to stop meddling in Turkish Cypriot affairs. Whats not to like?

And the end result is?

The end result is that we live and work in the EU with our EUropean partners and you live in disneyland in a make believe country with a make believe leader.

The clock is against you my little grey wolf.

Thank you for caring but what does it change? what have you gained? nothing still at square 1 with 37% of the island under our control Disneyland or not its a force you have to deal with otherwise no solution. Being in the EU means zilch if you do not think and act like a European, we have an excuse whats yours? You can place a saddle on a donkey="RoC" doesnt make it a race horse, you are living proof nothing has changed in the south.

[Viewpoint]

I remember Kifeas saying how wrong was Christofias to make that statement. I think Kifeas was right. We shouldn't give to them even half excuse because they will try to use it!

Yes Sotos, I did criticize Christofias for allowing the use of the term "constituent states" in the joint communiqué with Talat, and I am not happy at all that I was proved right as to how the Turkish side would have tried to make use of it. Anyone knowing just a little bit of how opportunistically the Turkish establishment thinks politically, and how it’s corrupted Kemalist ideological foundation -which is based on distortion, deception and manipulation, has made it function; should have had no doubt as to what use they would have tried to make of this or anything else for this matter.

The term Constituent may accept a dual interpretation, and this is obviously something unfortunately Christofias and his stupid advisor G. Iacovou did not know. One wonders, if Iacovou (because Christofia’s English is inadequate anyway) doesn't know such a basic fact of English political and legal terminology, what else he does not know and what is he doing there as Christofia’s advisor in the first place?

The term "constituent" state may have the same meaning with the term "component" state, in a situation in which a former sovereign, unitary (centralized) state (i.e. the case of the RoC) evolves into a federative one, and grants an amount of its own inherent powers to the component states, usually for internal affair policies and legislating. It (the term constituent) may also take the meaning of a "co-founder state," in which case two or more, former independently sovereign states, come together and form (constitute) one central (federal) government, to which they (the pre-existing sovereign states) grant an amount of their own inherent powers, usually for international affairs and common defense.

The good thing in this joined communiqué, was that the way it was syntaxed allows for the GC side to rightfully and affectively argue that the term "constituent" that was used, was with the same meaning to that of the "component" states, instead of that of "co-founding" states that the Turkish side is trying to argue it has been. I hope it was not by accident that the syntax was chosen in such a way, and it was only by accident that the term 'constituent" was used instead, otherwise we are in serious trouble for being in the hands of grossly incompetent people trying to represent us.

Mistakes errors?? at such high levels talks you appear to be kidding yourselves and making excuses for whats rearing its head, 2 equal founding member states, one identity, one people.

[Kifeas]

VP, did the GC side say that it wants or intents to back down from the content of the joined communiqué? As far as I know, it did not!

Secondly, there is no such a thing in the joined communiqué referring to "2 equal founding member states," neither explicitly, nor implicitly!

[repulsewarrior]

...it was no mistake Kifeas, and it serves to bring the ploys to light, for us to see.

Cypriots enjoy identifying themselves as Turcophones and Grecophones. They are constituents of a Cypriot State, unlike components, we will not choose to be Francophones and Anglophones, or any other other 'phonie' in our identity as this island's dwellers.

The definition of these words, as we define them, in the end will help all the International community, not unlike Bicommunal and Bizonal. Thus they can not be taken lightly, and on some levels, they will effect (or affect) all Mankind for years to come.

[Kifeas]

...it was no mistake Kifeas, and it serves to bring the ploys to light, for us to see.

Cypriots enjoy identifying themselves as Turcophones and Grecophones. They are constituents of a Cypriot State, unlike components, we will not choose to be Francophones and Anglophones, or any other other 'phonie' in our identity as this island's dwellers.

The definition of these words, as we define them, in the end will help all the International community, not unlike Bicommunal and Bizonal. Thus they can not be taken lightly, and on some levels, they will effect (or affect) all Mankind for years to come.

What???

What the ...hell are you talking about???

[repulsewarrior]

There exists a Cypriot State. Components can be replaced as a part which has equivalence. Constituents are parts without which there is no whole.

[Kifeas]

There exists a Cypriot State. Components can be replaced as a part which has equivalence. Constituents are parts without which there is no whole.

Repulse, in case you have not realized it yet, we are talking about the two future states (territorial entities) in a federation, and not the existing two communities (groups of humans,) as they were acknowledged in the 1960 constitution. Do not confuse the two sets of concepts or entities, for they are not identical, nor interchangeable! Yes, the two communities (GCs and TCs) are constituents, in the sense you describe it, but not the two states however! The two states do not exist as we speak, but are only meant to be created! What exists now, de jure, is one whole Cyprus, part of which is under foreign occupation! How can the two states be regarded as constituents, if they are going to be a by-product of an agreement between the two communities, which (communities) are the actual constituents in this agreement! Do not forget that the two communities, as they were defined in the 1960 constitution, do not entail a specific and separate territorial (state) attribute, but they are placed within the whole of Cyprus! Do not confuse the situation in Cyprus with that of Canada!

[Viewpoint]

VP, did the GC side say that it wants or intents to back down from the content of the joined communiqué? As far as I know, it did not!

Secondly, there is no such a thing in the joined communiqué referring to "2 equal founding member states," neither explicitly, nor implicitly!

So was your leader lieing when he said 2 founding constituent states as we discussed last week and you were strongly against, you even argued the point with Bananiot.