Cyprus-Forum.com

[ARMENIAN CYPRIOT]

F**king Turkey is the Cyprus Problem ... piss off GAV with your inane threads that have all but ruined this forum ....

Well said.

[GAVCARoCOM]

F**king Turkey is the Cyprus Problem ... piss off GAV with your inane threads that have all but ruined this forum ....

Are you telling me piss off . i wanted to be your friend but not anymore. if you are so fachist you can go to hell . how many time i m trying to stay away from your posts but you are very strange person. i think you are not a GC even and just a Greek. If you dont understand the nice language then i will talk with your own language how turkey talk to grivas at 1974

[ARMENIAN CYPRIOT]

F**king Turkey is the Cyprus Problem ... piss off GAV with your inane threads that have all but ruined this forum ....

Are you telling me piss off . i wanted to be your friend but not anymore. if you are so fachist you can go to hell . how many time i m trying to stay away from your posts but you are very strange person. i think you are not a GC even and just a Greek. If you dont understand the nice language then i will talk with your own language how turkey talk to grivas at 1974

WTF does this have to do with the Assyrian Genocide??? Stay the F*CK out of this topic unless you wish to discuss or add to it Jackass.

[GAVCARoCOM]

You shouldnt send it in the first place to the cyprus problem section then

[ARMENIAN CYPRIOT]

The majority in Asia Minor was not Turkish. The Turks made it Turkish by killing everybody else.

Sotos, I will post a map of where these groups lived and were the majority. Sad ending for these great indigenous groups.

[GAVCARoCOM]

[Paphitis]

this is nothing to do with cyprus problem . wtf u posting it in cyprus problem section?

That is where you are wrong. It is part and parcel of our problem as Cyprus has an Armenian community. And Turkey has commited gross war crimes against our fellow Armenian Cypriots and the Assyrians by anihilating them in Anatolia. Not to mention the Pontian Greeks as well.

[tessintrnc]

But this happened in Ottoman times - why are you trying to stir things up over this? Why not publish details on a much more recent genecide in the 1990's carried out with the aid of GREEKS? Read this:

Greece, as the only imperialist country in the Balkans, played a specific role in the restoration of capitalism in the former socialist states of the south Balkans. Greek capitalists took the leading role in buying up denationalised property in Albania and Macedonia, while taking a significant share of privatised businesses in Serbia and Bulgaria.

The Greek capitalist rulers' specific strategy was to play the reactionary “Orthodox” card — the Greek and Serb people are allegedly both “Orthodox Christians” and thus had to help each other against the “Turks”, as they called the Muslim peoples of the Balkans.

The oppressed, brutalised, disarmed Bosnian Muslims and the Kosovar Albanians were thus pictured as ghosts of the Ottoman Empire trying to return and again threaten Christendom. The Greek and Serb “Orthodox” peoples would be in the vanguard of the defence of Europe against this “Islamic threat”.

Throughout the bloody break-up of multi-ethnic Yugoslavia, Greek “volunteers”, applauded by the Greek corporate media, the Greek Orthodox Church, and all the major political parties in Greece, went to Bosnia to aid the Serb nationalists. In 1995, a team of these “volunteers” raised the Greek flag alongside the Serbian, ancient Macedonian and Byzantine flags at the Srebrenica massacre site. Karadzic decorated four Greek volunteers with the White Eagle medal following this.

On July 10, 163 Greek academics, journalists and political activists issued a call for Greece to officially apologise to the victims of Srebrenica for the role of Greek imperialism in this atrocity. The call stated in part: “On July 11, 10 years will be completed since the massive massacre of 8000 civilians in Srebrenica organised by the regime of Milosevic and its followers in Bosnia, Mladic and Karadjic. This was not the only atrocity, it was preceded by others (Vukovar, Goradze) as well as the long siege of Sarajevo that cost 11,000 dead.

“Croatians and Muslims also committed war crimes and now account for them before the International Criminal Tribune at The Hague. But the massacre of civilians in Srebrenica symbolises the absolute terror and characterises the regime which committed it.

“Aimed at ethnic cleansing and organised cold-bloodedly, it is the worst mass-killing in Europe after the World War II that the international community did not prevent despite its promises to protect the population... “Contrary to what happened elsewhere, in the rest of the world and in particular in the rest of Europe, in Greece public opinion was misinformed and uncritically placed in a common psychological front with the criminal regime of Milosevic, under the pretext of Orthodoxy, the traditional Greek-Serbian friendship and alleged ‘anti-imperialism'. Not only this. Greek ‘volunteers' (their public confessions have been published) have fought in Bosnia with Karadzic and Mladic and raised the Greek flag, dishonouring it in Srebrenica at the moment of the carnage.

“The Greek state has the obligation to apologise publicly to the families of the 8000 slaughtered and to call for the indictment of the Greek ‘volunteers' who were accomplices in the crime, as well as the supposedly ‘unknown' people who manipulated them. We demand this.”

http://www.greenleft.org.au/2005/634/34279

[ARMENIAN CYPRIOT]

Just wondering is MUSTAFA KEMAL A LIAR FOR HIS BELIEFS OF WHAT HAPPENED??
Mustafa Kemal's stance on the massacres prior and early into the Republic is indisputable. There are several sources which show he acknowledged the CUP programs and in one source, one of his aides even gives a number: at least 800000 Armenians were inhumanely killed by the CUP Government(Vakit and Alemdar Newspapers, March 15th 1919.) These are:

"Rauf Orbay'in Hatiralari"(Memoirs of Rauf Orbay), Yakin Tarihimiz(Our Recent History) Vol. III, p 179.

Ataturk'un TBMM Acik ve Gizli Oturumlarindaki Konusmalari(Ataturk's Speeches in the Public and Secret Sessions of the Assembly), vol I(Ankara, 1992) p59.

I am copying these sources from the Reference list in Taner Akcam's From Empire to Republic. If you are interested in a detailed description of Kemal's policies regarding minorities in the early days of the Republic, among other things, I suggest you read it.

It is interesting how statements made by Ataturk early on stand in great odds with the policies of denial that would come into effect less than a decade after the Republic was founded. There are many reasons for itne being the attitude of the Entente towards the enforcement of legal proceedings. They presented it as a package deal with the partitioning of the Empire(in fact the pseudo-colonial plans greatly undermined the humanitarian aspect of the Sevres stipulations) and when the partitioning aspect was unrealized due to the success of the Independence movement, so were the other aspects. Of course I am not stating this to shift the blame of denial to the Entente states but at least as one factor that contributed to the pursuing of denial with such unreasonable fervor.

It is not surprising that Turks you speak to won't accept this. Since his death, Ataturk has been turned into a deity: he is the flawless example of the Turkish ubermensch and any opposition to his person, history or ideas is the strongest of taboos. If Ataturk has indeed made these statements(which he did) a Turk's obligation would be to agree with him which means acknowledging the Armenian Massacres. Another denial fixes the problem however.

[ARMENIAN CYPRIOT]

The figure of 800,000 deaths actually comes from the official Ottoman statistics for 1915 - 1918 provided by Cemal's bureau (statistics released in publishing - Ottoman Gazette Takvimi Vekâyi No. 3909, July 21, 1920, pp. 3, 4). These statistics were obtained for the bureau by Mustafa Arif (Interior Minister), and only count those that were massacred during "deportations/relocations". They do NOT include the number of Armenian soldiers who were disarmed and killed in February of 1915.

There is only one reference to the silly figure of 300,000 deaths that Turkey so vehemently sticks to: Talat Pasha. How he came to this figure is a mystery, as there are no references to his sources or data. Yet, Turkey has come to rely on this completely unreliable number.

Turkey also likes to claim that Armenians have inflated the figures throughout the years to the current 1.5 million. However, that 1.5 million figure actually comes from German & Austrian officials who stated 1.5 & 1.2 million on SEVERAL occasions.


Oct 29, 1915 report from Dr. Arthur Chevalier de Nadamlenzki of the Austria-Hungary Adrianople (Edirne) consul: For the entire Ottoman Empire 1.5 million had already been deported (Ibid. 12 Tiirkei/463, Z.94/P).
Jul 2, 1916 report: As early as February 1916, 1.5 million Armenians destroyed (Volkswirtschaftliche Studien in der Türkei, A. A. Türkei, 134/35, A18613).
May 27, 1916 report from Foreign Office Intelligence Director Erzberger: 1.5 million Armenians destroyed (A.A. Türkei 183/42, A13959).
Oct 4, 1916 report from German Interim Ambassador to Turkey Wilhelm Radowitz: 1.5 million Armenians destroyed, 425,000 survive (A.A. Türkei 183/44, A27493).
Mar 13, 1918 report to Vienna from Dr. Kwatkiowski of the Austrian consul at Trabzon and Samsun: 1 million deported in the six eastern provinces, most died (Austrian Foreign Ministry Archives 12 Türkei/380, ZI.17/pol and 12 Türkei/463, Z.94/P).
1918 report from German major Franz Karl Endres serving in the Turkish army: 1.2 million Armenians perished (Die Türkei. Munich, CH Beck, 1918, p. 161).

...aaaaaand so forth. I could go on with quite a bit more, but you get the picture. Though none of these figures are guarantees, they paint quite the interesting picture in contrast to figures offered by others, especially considering the direct involvement of many of these people in the extermination project.