Cyprus-Forum.com

[Big Al]

:badair:

[miltiades]

Here we have the loyal defender of the Iranian President , believing firmly that he never threatened to wipe Israel of the face of the earth. In fact , as stated by Bananiot our own government sent a protest note along I'm sure with the rest of the world .

You are absolutely correct in supporting Bananiot's statement miltiades, however, what you FAIL to grasp is the fact that, subsequent to the revelation that the words of Ahmadinejad were in fact a misinterpretation of what the Ayatollah Khomeini actually said (explained to you severally) such protest notes (as you have mentioned) were rescinded.

Realizing that you may not be aware of the above facts, I suggest you should investigate the authenticity of that which I have proposed to you so often, it could save you some embarrassment.

Well here are some facts Eliko , do read them , you will also note discrepancies concerning the speech but nevertheless PEOPLE WILL DRAW THEIR OWN CONCLUSIONS JUST AS I HAVE.

On October 26, 2005, IRIB News, an English-language subsidiary of the state-controlled Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting, filed a story on Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's recent speech to the "World Without Zionism" conference in Asia. The story was entitled: Ahmadinejad: Israel must be wiped off the map.[1] The story was picked up by Western news agencies and quickly made headlines around the world. On October 30, The New York Times published a full transcript of the speech in which Ahmadinejad was quoted in part as follows:

Our dear Imam (referring to Ayatollah Khomeini) said that the occupying regime must be wiped off the map and this was a very wise statement. We cannot compromise over the issue of Palestine. Is it possible to create a new front in the heart of an old front. This would be a defeat and whoever accepts the legitimacy of this regime has in fact, signed the defeat of the Islamic world. Our dear Imam targeted the heart of the world oppressor in his struggle, meaning the occupying regime. I have no doubt that the new wave that has started in Palestine, and we witness it in the Islamic world too, will eliminate this disgraceful stain from the Islamic world.[2]

Ahmadinejad also claimed in the speech that the issue with Palestine would be over "the day that all refugees return to their homes [and] a democratic government elected by the people comes to power",[3] and denounced attempts to normalise relations with Israel, condemning all Muslim leaders who accept the existence of Israel as "acknowledging a surrender and defeat of the Islamic world."

The speech also indicated that the Iranian President considered Israel's withdrawal from the Gaza Strip to be a trick, designed to gain acknowledgement from Islamic states. In a rally held two days later, Ahmadinejad declared that his words reflected the views of the Iranian people, adding that Westerners are free to comment, but their reactions are invalid.[4]


[edit] "Wiped off the page of time" translation
Many news sources have presented one of Ahmadinejad's phrases in Persian as a statement that "Israel must be wiped off the map",[5][6][7] an English idiom which means to "cause a place to stop to exist",[8] or to "obliterate totally",[9] or "destroy completely".[10]

Ahmadinejad's phrase was " بايد از صفحه روزگار محو شود " according to the text published on the President's Office's website.[11]

The translation presented by IRIB has been challenged by Mr. Arash Norouzi, who proposes that the statement "wiped off the map" was never made and that Ahmadinejad did not refer to the nation or land mass of Israel, but to the "regime occupying Jerusalem". He says that the Iranian government News Agency IRIB/IRNA translation is the source of the confusion:

One may wonder: where did this false interpretation originate? Who is responsible for the translation that has sparked such worldwide controversy? The answer is surprising. The inflammatory 'wiped off the map' quote was first disseminated not by Iran's enemies, but by Iran itself. The Islamic Republic News Agency, Iran's official propaganda arm, used this phrasing in the English version of some of their news releases covering the World Without Zionism conference. International media including the BBC, Al Jazeera, Time magazine and countless others picked up the IRNA quote and made headlines out of it without verifying its accuracy, and rarely referring to the source. Iran's Foreign Minister soon attempted to clarify the statement, but the quote had a life of its own. Though the IRNA wording was inaccurate and misleading, the media assumed it was true, and besides, it made great copy.[12]

According to Juan Cole, a University of Michigan Professor of Modern Middle East and South Asian History, Ahmadinejad's statement should be translated as:

The Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem (een rezhim-e eshghalgar-e qods) must [vanish from] the page of time (bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad).[13]

Norouzi's translation is identical.[12] According to Cole, "Ahmadinejad did not say he was going to 'wipe Israel off the map' because no such idiom exists in Persian". Instead, "He did say he hoped its regime, i.e., a Jewish-Zionist state occupying Jerusalem, would collapse."[14]

The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) translates the phrase similarly.[15] On June 2, 2006 The Guardian columnist and foreign correspondent Jonathan Steele published an article based on this reasoning.[16]

Sources within the Iranian government have also denied that Ahmadinejad issued any sort of threat.[17][18][19] On 20 February 2006, Iran’s foreign minister denied that Tehran wanted to see Israel “wiped off the map,” saying Ahmadinejad had been misunderstood. "Nobody can remove a country from the map. This is a misunderstanding in Europe of what our president mentioned," Manouchehr Mottaki told a news conference, speaking in English, after addressing the European Parliament. "How is it possible to remove a country from the map? He is talking about the regime. We do not recognise legally this regime," he said.[20][21][22]

In a June 11, 2006 analysis of the translation controversy, New York Times deputy foreign editor Ethan Bronner stated that Ahmadinejad had said that Israel was to be wiped off the map. After noting the objections of critics such as Cole and Steele, Bronner said: "But translators in Tehran who work for the president's office and the foreign ministry disagree with them. All official translations of Mr. Ahmadinejad's statement, including a description of it on his website, refer to wiping Israel away. Bronner stated: "..it is hard to argue that, from Israel's point of view, Mr. Ahmadinejad poses no threat. Still, it is true that he has never specifically threatened war against Israel. So did Iran's president call for Israel to be 'wiped off the map'? It certainly seems so. Did that amount to a call for war? That remains an open question."[14] This elicited a further response from Jonathan Steele.[23]

The same idiom in his speech on December 13, 2006 was translated as "wiped out" by Reuters:

Just as the Soviet Union was wiped out and today does not exist, so will the Zionist regime soon be wiped out.[24]

The 'Wipe Israel' phrase also appeared elsewhere: Iranian military parades in Ahmadinedjad's reign featured ballistic missiles adorned with slogans such as 'Israel must be uprooted and erased from history'.[25]

Eliko , you make up your mind now.

[Big Al]

How i imagine you guys to look.......




Oracle




GR (the way he see's himself)




Miltiades

[Eliko]

Here we have the loyal defender of the Iranian President , believing firmly that he never threatened to wipe Israel of the face of the earth. In fact , as stated by Bananiot our own government sent a protest note along I'm sure with the rest of the world .

You are absolutely correct in supporting Bananiot's statement miltiades, however, what you FAIL to grasp is the fact that, subsequent to the revelation that the words of Ahmadinejad were in fact a misinterpretation of what the Ayatollah Khomeini actually said (explained to you severally) such protest notes (as you have mentioned) were rescinded.

Realizing that you may not be aware of the above facts, I suggest you should investigate the authenticity of that which I have proposed to you so often, it could save you some embarrassment.

Well here are some facts Eliko , do read them , you will also note discrepancies concerning the speech but nevertheless PEOPLE WILL DRAW THEIR OWN CONCLUSIONS JUST AS I HAVE.

On October 26, 2005, IRIB News, an English-language subsidiary of the state-controlled Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting, filed a story on Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's recent speech to the "World Without Zionism" conference in Asia. The story was entitled: Ahmadinejad: Israel must be wiped off the map.[1] The story was picked up by Western news agencies and quickly made headlines around the world. On October 30, The New York Times published a full transcript of the speech in which Ahmadinejad was quoted in part as follows:

Our dear Imam (referring to Ayatollah Khomeini) said that the occupying regime must be wiped off the map and this was a very wise statement. We cannot compromise over the issue of Palestine. Is it possible to create a new front in the heart of an old front. This would be a defeat and whoever accepts the legitimacy of this regime has in fact, signed the defeat of the Islamic world. Our dear Imam targeted the heart of the world oppressor in his struggle, meaning the occupying regime. I have no doubt that the new wave that has started in Palestine, and we witness it in the Islamic world too, will eliminate this disgraceful stain from the Islamic world.[2]

Ahmadinejad also claimed in the speech that the issue with Palestine would be over "the day that all refugees return to their homes [and] a democratic government elected by the people comes to power",[3] and denounced attempts to normalise relations with Israel, condemning all Muslim leaders who accept the existence of Israel as "acknowledging a surrender and defeat of the Islamic world."

The speech also indicated that the Iranian President considered Israel's withdrawal from the Gaza Strip to be a trick, designed to gain acknowledgement from Islamic states. In a rally held two days later, Ahmadinejad declared that his words reflected the views of the Iranian people, adding that Westerners are free to comment, but their reactions are invalid.[4]


[edit] "Wiped off the page of time" translation
Many news sources have presented one of Ahmadinejad's phrases in Persian as a statement that "Israel must be wiped off the map",[5][6][7] an English idiom which means to "cause a place to stop to exist",[8] or to "obliterate totally",[9] or "destroy completely".[10]

Ahmadinejad's phrase was " بايد از صفحه روزگار محو شود " according to the text published on the President's Office's website.[11]

The translation presented by IRIB has been challenged by Mr. Arash Norouzi, who proposes that the statement "wiped off the map" was never made and that Ahmadinejad did not refer to the nation or land mass of Israel, but to the "regime occupying Jerusalem". He says that the Iranian government News Agency IRIB/IRNA translation is the source of the confusion:

One may wonder: where did this false interpretation originate? Who is responsible for the translation that has sparked such worldwide controversy? The answer is surprising. The inflammatory 'wiped off the map' quote was first disseminated not by Iran's enemies, but by Iran itself. The Islamic Republic News Agency, Iran's official propaganda arm, used this phrasing in the English version of some of their news releases covering the World Without Zionism conference. International media including the BBC, Al Jazeera, Time magazine and countless others picked up the IRNA quote and made headlines out of it without verifying its accuracy, and rarely referring to the source. Iran's Foreign Minister soon attempted to clarify the statement, but the quote had a life of its own. Though the IRNA wording was inaccurate and misleading, the media assumed it was true, and besides, it made great copy.[12]

According to Juan Cole, a University of Michigan Professor of Modern Middle East and South Asian History, Ahmadinejad's statement should be translated as:

The Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem (een rezhim-e eshghalgar-e qods) must [vanish from] the page of time (bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad).[13]

Norouzi's translation is identical.[12] According to Cole, "Ahmadinejad did not say he was going to 'wipe Israel off the map' because no such idiom exists in Persian". Instead, "He did say he hoped its regime, i.e., a Jewish-Zionist state occupying Jerusalem, would collapse."[14]

The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) translates the phrase similarly.[15] On June 2, 2006 The Guardian columnist and foreign correspondent Jonathan Steele published an article based on this reasoning.[16]

Sources within the Iranian government have also denied that Ahmadinejad issued any sort of threat.[17][18][19] On 20 February 2006, Iran’s foreign minister denied that Tehran wanted to see Israel “wiped off the map,” saying Ahmadinejad had been misunderstood. "Nobody can remove a country from the map. This is a misunderstanding in Europe of what our president mentioned," Manouchehr Mottaki told a news conference, speaking in English, after addressing the European Parliament. "How is it possible to remove a country from the map? He is talking about the regime. We do not recognise legally this regime," he said.[20][21][22]

In a June 11, 2006 analysis of the translation controversy, New York Times deputy foreign editor Ethan Bronner stated that Ahmadinejad had said that Israel was to be wiped off the map. After noting the objections of critics such as Cole and Steele, Bronner said: "But translators in Tehran who work for the president's office and the foreign ministry disagree with them. All official translations of Mr. Ahmadinejad's statement, including a description of it on his website, refer to wiping Israel away. Bronner stated: "..it is hard to argue that, from Israel's point of view, Mr. Ahmadinejad poses no threat. Still, it is true that he has never specifically threatened war against Israel. So did Iran's president call for Israel to be 'wiped off the map'? It certainly seems so. Did that amount to a call for war? That remains an open question."[14] This elicited a further response from Jonathan Steele.[23]

The same idiom in his speech on December 13, 2006 was translated as "wiped out" by Reuters:

Just as the Soviet Union was wiped out and today does not exist, so will the Zionist regime soon be wiped out.[24]

The 'Wipe Israel' phrase also appeared elsewhere: Iranian military parades in Ahmadinedjad's reign featured ballistic missiles adorned with slogans such as 'Israel must be uprooted and erased from history'.[25]

Eliko , you make up your mind now.

miltiades, thank you for finally researching that which I have been informing you of for some time.

Since the issue was that President Ahmadinejad formulated a speech declaring that he would 'Wipe Israel of the face of the map' and THAT statement has been proved to be yet another exaggerated and misinterpreted 'LIE', do you now wish to pursue the matter further and discover the source of the mendacity of it ?.

I am satisfied that I know, perhaps you will again lean toward Western interpretations, which, if I may say so, is quite sad since we have already received enough evidence of how far such misinterpretation and misinformation by the West has led us down the roads of shame and political embarrassment.

I will furnish you with a clue for your quest to find the truth miltiades, look to those you so fervently admire, they are easily recognized by the blood dripping from their hands my friend.

In my humble opinion (as always).

[miltiades]

Here we have the loyal defender of the Iranian President , believing firmly that he never threatened to wipe Israel of the face of the earth. In fact , as stated by Bananiot our own government sent a protest note along I'm sure with the rest of the world .

You are absolutely correct in supporting Bananiot's statement miltiades, however, what you FAIL to grasp is the fact that, subsequent to the revelation that the words of Ahmadinejad were in fact a misinterpretation of what the Ayatollah Khomeini actually said (explained to you severally) such protest notes (as you have mentioned) were rescinded.

Realizing that you may not be aware of the above facts, I suggest you should investigate the authenticity of that which I have proposed to you so often, it could save you some embarrassment.

Well here are some facts Eliko , do read them , you will also note discrepancies concerning the speech but nevertheless PEOPLE WILL DRAW THEIR OWN CONCLUSIONS JUST AS I HAVE.

On October 26, 2005, IRIB News, an English-language subsidiary of the state-controlled Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting, filed a story on Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's recent speech to the "World Without Zionism" conference in Asia. The story was entitled: Ahmadinejad: Israel must be wiped off the map.[1] The story was picked up by Western news agencies and quickly made headlines around the world. On October 30, The New York Times published a full transcript of the speech in which Ahmadinejad was quoted in part as follows:

Our dear Imam (referring to Ayatollah Khomeini) said that the occupying regime must be wiped off the map and this was a very wise statement. We cannot compromise over the issue of Palestine. Is it possible to create a new front in the heart of an old front. This would be a defeat and whoever accepts the legitimacy of this regime has in fact, signed the defeat of the Islamic world. Our dear Imam targeted the heart of the world oppressor in his struggle, meaning the occupying regime. I have no doubt that the new wave that has started in Palestine, and we witness it in the Islamic world too, will eliminate this disgraceful stain from the Islamic world.[2]

Ahmadinejad also claimed in the speech that the issue with Palestine would be over "the day that all refugees return to their homes [and] a democratic government elected by the people comes to power",[3] and denounced attempts to normalise relations with Israel, condemning all Muslim leaders who accept the existence of Israel as "acknowledging a surrender and defeat of the Islamic world."

The speech also indicated that the Iranian President considered Israel's withdrawal from the Gaza Strip to be a trick, designed to gain acknowledgement from Islamic states. In a rally held two days later, Ahmadinejad declared that his words reflected the views of the Iranian people, adding that Westerners are free to comment, but their reactions are invalid.[4]


[edit] "Wiped off the page of time" translation
Many news sources have presented one of Ahmadinejad's phrases in Persian as a statement that "Israel must be wiped off the map",[5][6][7] an English idiom which means to "cause a place to stop to exist",[8] or to "obliterate totally",[9] or "destroy completely".[10]

Ahmadinejad's phrase was " بايد از صفحه روزگار محو شود " according to the text published on the President's Office's website.[11]

The translation presented by IRIB has been challenged by Mr. Arash Norouzi, who proposes that the statement "wiped off the map" was never made and that Ahmadinejad did not refer to the nation or land mass of Israel, but to the "regime occupying Jerusalem". He says that the Iranian government News Agency IRIB/IRNA translation is the source of the confusion:

One may wonder: where did this false interpretation originate? Who is responsible for the translation that has sparked such worldwide controversy? The answer is surprising. The inflammatory 'wiped off the map' quote was first disseminated not by Iran's enemies, but by Iran itself. The Islamic Republic News Agency, Iran's official propaganda arm, used this phrasing in the English version of some of their news releases covering the World Without Zionism conference. International media including the BBC, Al Jazeera, Time magazine and countless others picked up the IRNA quote and made headlines out of it without verifying its accuracy, and rarely referring to the source. Iran's Foreign Minister soon attempted to clarify the statement, but the quote had a life of its own. Though the IRNA wording was inaccurate and misleading, the media assumed it was true, and besides, it made great copy.[12]

According to Juan Cole, a University of Michigan Professor of Modern Middle East and South Asian History, Ahmadinejad's statement should be translated as:

The Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem (een rezhim-e eshghalgar-e qods) must [vanish from] the page of time (bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad).[13]

Norouzi's translation is identical.[12] According to Cole, "Ahmadinejad did not say he was going to 'wipe Israel off the map' because no such idiom exists in Persian". Instead, "He did say he hoped its regime, i.e., a Jewish-Zionist state occupying Jerusalem, would collapse."[14]

The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) translates the phrase similarly.[15] On June 2, 2006 The Guardian columnist and foreign correspondent Jonathan Steele published an article based on this reasoning.[16]

Sources within the Iranian government have also denied that Ahmadinejad issued any sort of threat.[17][18][19] On 20 February 2006, Iran’s foreign minister denied that Tehran wanted to see Israel “wiped off the map,” saying Ahmadinejad had been misunderstood. "Nobody can remove a country from the map. This is a misunderstanding in Europe of what our president mentioned," Manouchehr Mottaki told a news conference, speaking in English, after addressing the European Parliament. "How is it possible to remove a country from the map? He is talking about the regime. We do not recognise legally this regime," he said.[20][21][22]

In a June 11, 2006 analysis of the translation controversy, New York Times deputy foreign editor Ethan Bronner stated that Ahmadinejad had said that Israel was to be wiped off the map. After noting the objections of critics such as Cole and Steele, Bronner said: "But translators in Tehran who work for the president's office and the foreign ministry disagree with them. All official translations of Mr. Ahmadinejad's statement, including a description of it on his website, refer to wiping Israel away. Bronner stated: "..it is hard to argue that, from Israel's point of view, Mr. Ahmadinejad poses no threat. Still, it is true that he has never specifically threatened war against Israel. So did Iran's president call for Israel to be 'wiped off the map'? It certainly seems so. Did that amount to a call for war? That remains an open question."[14] This elicited a further response from Jonathan Steele.[23]

The same idiom in his speech on December 13, 2006 was translated as "wiped out" by Reuters:

Just as the Soviet Union was wiped out and today does not exist, so will the Zionist regime soon be wiped out.[24]

The 'Wipe Israel' phrase also appeared elsewhere: Iranian military parades in Ahmadinedjad's reign featured ballistic missiles adorned with slogans such as 'Israel must be uprooted and erased from history'.[25]

Eliko , you make up your mind now.

miltiades, thank you for finally researching that which I have been informing you of for some time.

Since the issue was that President Ahmadinejad formulated a speech declaring that he would 'Wipe Israel of the face of the map' and THAT statement has been proved to be yet another exaggerated and misinterpreted 'LIE', do you now wish to pursue the matter further and discover the source of the mendacity of it ?.

I am satisfied that I know, perhaps you will again lean toward Western interpretations, which, if I may say so, is quite sad since we have already received enough evidence of how far such misinterpretation and misinformation by the West has led us down the roads of shame and political embarrassment.

I will furnish you with a clue for your quest to find the truth miltiades, look to those you so fervently admire, they are easily recognized by the blood dripping from their hands my friend.

In my humble opinion (as always).

Eliko do you just read with your left eye by any chance !!
Are you talking about this blood dripping following a suicide attack ?

[Eliko]

miltiades, it is quite pointless offering such veiled insults in response to the issue we have just dealt with.

I am not going to press my points further since I am aware of the fact that you will probably now be seeking some way to regain some semblance of dignity in the face of an obvious defeat.

I do urge you to consider the fact that you had 'Pitched your Tent' in the wrong compound (on this occasion) and if you are content to remain in oblivious acceptance of the propaganda you seem to thrive on, there is little (or nothing) I can do to assist in your enlightenment.

We have covered the issues of 'Suicide Bombings' so many times, the subject has become tiresome.

I have noticed, however, a distinct absence recently of your favourite topic "THE SAVAGES STRIKE AGAIN" and I wonder if this is an indication that there is 'PEACE' in Iraq, or are you finally becoming ashamed of the manner in which you have supported the murderous onslaught of the unlawful aggressors that have instigated such horrific activities as 'Suicide Bombings' ?.

[miltiades]

miltiades, it is quite pointless offering such veiled insults in response to the issue we have just dealt with.

I am not going to press my points further since I am aware of the fact that you will probably now be seeking some way to regain some semblance of dignity in the face of an obvious defeat.

I do urge you to consider the fact that you had 'Pitched your Tent' in the wrong compound (on this occasion) and if you are content to remain in oblivious acceptance of the propaganda you seem to thrive on, there is little (or nothing) I can do to assist in your enlightenment.

We have covered the issues of 'Suicide Bombings' so many times, the subject has become tiresome.

I have noticed, however, a distinct absence recently of your favourite topic "THE SAVAGES STRIKE AGAIN" and I wonder if this is an indication that there is 'PEACE' in Iraq, or are you finally becoming ashamed of the manner in which you have supported the murderous onslaught of the unlawful aggressors that have instigated such horrific activities as 'Suicide Bombings' ?.

Eliko , the Savages Strike Again is very much alive and when the time presents itself it shall again emerge to show YOU that those responsible for the blood and mayhem in Iraq are the fanatics that you so much appear to tolerate admiringly as you do normally with other ghastly beings , Mugabe being one of them !! . Remembering a post recently by the notorious GR that you wholeheartedly support , admiringly , since your views and his are in line , that if need be suicide killers would be used in Cyprus against Turkish troops , brings to mind your solid respect for those that choose this savage method to promote their cause since you never challenged this stupid nonsense by an equally stupid man.
I'm certain also that the Taliban rank high amongst your list of admired people and I hereby remind you of some Taliban actions of the past !!

[Oracle]

@Miltiades

Like the mentally deranged militants who were sent to Deolali to await a passage home, dismissed of further duties .... You have indeed gone DOOLALLY!!!!!

Stop with the graphics, please!

[Eliko]

miltiades, you are off on a tangent once again, enjoy the trip !!.

[Get Real!]

GR (the way he see's himself)

It's more like BigAl's assumption as to how GR sees himself... and you can keep that apostrophe to go buy yourself a bubble gum.