Cyprus-Forum.com

[Tim Drayton]

Pseudostate Prime-Minister Ferdi Sabit Soyer has issued a detailed reply to claims raised by the Turkish Cypriot teachers’ union that “We have become a minority”. Soyer accuses the teachers’ union of racism.
The full text of the statement is published in today’s Yeni Düzen:

http://www.yeniduzengazetesi.com/templa ... &zoneid=19

Soyer raises some interesting points. I quote a couple of sections from this statement along with my own (fairly free) translation below:

Her şeyden evvel özellikle çoçukları ve gençleri kökenlerine, dillerine, dinlerine, milliyetlerine ve ırklarına göre katagorize ederek belli siyasi ve sosyal sonuçlar üretmeye çalışmak, asla kabul edilebilir demokratik ve insani bir yaklaşım değildir. Bu her şeyden evvel eğitimde demokratikliği ve yerellikten evrenselliğe gitme sentezini darbeleyen bir anlayıştır. Ayrıca bu anlayışlar ırkçılığın her türüne karşı besleyici bir ortam yaratma potansiyeli taşımaktadır.
Kıbrıs sorunu gibi temel bir sorunun, yıllardır sürmesi nedeniyle kendi içimizde ve güneyimizde, kendinden farklı olanı dışlayan, ötekileştiren anlayışların geliştiği aşikardır. Bu anlayışların günümüzde büyük çabalarla bulunan kayıp şahısların kemiklerinin ailelerine teslimlerinde yaşadıklarımız bu zihniyetin geçmişte yaptığı vahşetin en bariz örneğidir.
Bu yüzdendir ki bu acıları yaşamış bir halk olarak, nedeni ne olursa olsun, bir ötekini kökenine, dinine, ırkına, milliyetine göre katagorize eden her anlayıştan uzak durmamız gerekmektedir.

In the first place, the attempt to produce certain political and social results by categorising children and young people according to their origins, languages, religions, nationalities and races is totally unacceptable in democratic and human terms. This above all is an approach that strikes a body blow to democratisation, and the synthesis that places universalism above localism, in education. Moreover, such approaches threaten to create an environment which will give succour to racism of all kinds. It is clear that the drawn-out nature of a fundamental problem of many years’ standing like the Cyprus problem has given rise to approaches, among us and to our south, which exclude and stigmatise those who are different. We witness today the starkest example of the barbarism caused in the past by this mentality, these approaches, in the great efforts expended to locate the remains of missing persons and return these to their families.
Consequently, we as a people who have experienced this pain need to steer clear of all approaches that, for whatever reason, categorise others in terms of their origins, religions, races or nationalities.

[...]

Üstelik yıllardır Kıbrıs’ta yaşayan ve dedesi nenesi 1974 sonrası adaya yerleşen insanları hala kökenlerine göre dışlamaya çalışmak ne derece doğrudur. Babası Kenyalı müslüman olan Barak Obama’nın ABD’de Demokrat Parti’nin Başkan adayı seçildiği ve önümüzdeki günlerde ABD Başkanlığı işin yarışacağı deri rengi nedeni ile ırkcı eğilimlerin tarihsel süreçte etken olduğu ABD’de ABD halkının bütün bu tarihsel önyargıları yıkarak adım geliştirdiği AB süreçlerinin her türlü tarihsel önyargının üstünde şekilendiği günümüzde bizde hala daha 3. Kuşağın köken tartışmasını yapmanın hiçbir mantığı olamaz. Bu mantığın ne Avrupa değerleri ile ne de insani değerlerle, ne de demokratik değerler toplamı ile bağı olamaz. Avrupa futbol şampiyonasında sahaya çıkan takımların kaptanlarının kollarında ırkcılığa karşı mücadele çağrılarının yer aldığı günümüzde, ırkcılığın her türüne karşı uyanık olmak zorundayız.

Moreover, to what extent is it correct to still attempt to exclude on the basis of origin those people who have lived in Cyprus for years and whose grandparents settled on the island after 1974? There can be no logic in our continuing to debate the origins of the 3rd Generation in the present day in which in the USA, whose history has been influenced by racist tendencies based on skin colour, the US people have taken a step forward and demolished their historical prejudices with the election in the USA of Barak Obama, whose father was a Kenyan Muslim, as the Democratic Party’s presidential candidate, who in the near future will stand for the US Presidency, and in which the EU operates on a plane which supersedes historical prejudices of all kinds. This logic cannot be reconciled with either European values, human values, or democratic values as a whole. In the present day in which the captains of teams in the European football championship enter the field sporting anti-racist slogans on their arms, we must be on our guard against racism of all kinds.

[Jerry]

That's bloody rich coming from a "minister" of a place where one entire race were ethnically cleansed in 1974, the man is a joke just like the "trnc"

[Oracle]

In the first place, the attempt to produce certain political and social results by categorising children and young people according to their origins, languages, religions, nationalities and races is totally unacceptable in democratic and human terms

Regarding your translation above, taking into consideration equally a denial of ones Nationality is wrong ..... i.e. Soyer is choosing to deny a basic Human Right to recognise ones Nationality:

Article 15.
(1) Everyone has the right to a nationality.

I assume he is talking about the settlers. Since Turkey has ethnically cleansed them from Turkey .. are they now also proposing doing away with their Turkish National identity?

[Tim Drayton]

The hard fact remains that this is a very thorny issue. We are looking at a dynamic situation which is nothing like as cut and dried as it was five or ten years after the occupation. Some settler families are in their third generation and intermarriage with Turkish Cypriots is taking place. There is not a single country in the European Union in which people who were born in that country and whose parents were also born in that country can be deported on the grounds that their grandparents were illegal immigrants. As time goes by, the problem becomes more and more complex. You can either bury your head in the sand and engage in denial, or grasp this thorn. It is an issue that has to be addressed realistically if there is to be a comprehensive settlement.

[Jerry]

The hard fact remains that this is a very thorny issue. We are looking at a dynamic situation which is nothing like as cut and dried as it was five or ten years after the occupation. Some settler families are in their third generation and intermarriage with Turkish Cypriots is taking place. There is not a single country in the European Union in which people who were born in that country and whose parents were also born in that country can be deported on the grounds that their grandparents were illegal immigrants. As time goes by, the problem becomes more and more complex. You can either bury your head in the sand and engage in denial, or grasp this thorn. It is an issue that has to be addressed realistically if there is to be a comprehensive settlement.

It certainly is a thorny issue. People who for generations (the Greek Cypriots) lived in Cyprus have an equal or, some would argue, a better right to be in that part of Cyprus. Turkey deliberately and out of malice caused the problem, Turkey should sort it out but not at the expense of the GCs. It's time the EU UN and other responsible bodies made Turkey face up to the racist crime it commited in Cyprus or is the same old story - might is right.

[Kikapu]

The hard fact remains that this is a very thorny issue. We are looking at a dynamic situation which is nothing like as cut and dried as it was five or ten years after the occupation. Some settler families are in their third generation and intermarriage with Turkish Cypriots is taking place. There is not a single country in the European Union in which people who were born in that country and whose parents were also born in that country can be deported on the grounds that their grandparents were illegal immigrants. As time goes by, the problem becomes more and more complex. You can either bury your head in the sand and engage in denial, or grasp this thorn. It is an issue that has to be addressed realistically if there is to be a comprehensive settlement.

It all depends really on what grounds they come to the country. If they are deemed to be illegal Aliens where the laws of that country were broken by not entering the country through an official port of entry, then their legal status can be challenged and deported to country of origin. Even if they were allowed to stay, as the case in the USA with the illegal Mexicans (mostly), who have just walked, run, swam across the border, they can be deported if the USA had the will, which they do not for the most part, therefore, they stay in the USA to do mostly cheap labour work, which every other US citizen benefits, but in theory, aside from those who are born in the USA who obtains US citizenship automatically, regardless of the parents legal status in the country, such rights are not given to the illegal status parents. Now, if an illegal Alien who has entered the country illegally as suppose to those that did enter legally as a tourist but just overstayed and wants to marry an American, they will need to leave the USA and apply for a visa in their country of origin, which may take a year or two, or three before they can get married in the USA.

The same case can be made in Cyprus, and perhaps even worse, which means, that all those who have entered Cyprus through a non official port of entry ( the north) can be denied right of stay, as well as be punished for breaking the laws of the country, even if they are married to a Cypriot. Their children does not gain automatic citizenship, which is also the same in most EU countries, therefore, they may be allowed to stay in Cyprus, but as immigrants and not as citizens, until which time they can apply to become one with the correct procedure. What goes on in the north cannot be expected to be respected in the legitimate government of the island in the south, so some compromises can be made to make the children born to settlers born as citizens automatically, but not necessarily the same treatment to those who have married to a Cypriot, otherwise, the same laws will need to apply to all other immigrants in the south, whose children have not been given automatic citizenship's, despite their parents coming into the country through legal port of entry.

You can all blame the mastermind behind all the problems with the settlers and their status, which will be a difficult issue to solve in the peace talks, which is Rauf Denktash. He used the settlers to help him stay in power by making them citizens of the "trnc" which had no legitimate value as being legitimate citizen of Cyprus.

[Tim Drayton]

I agree wholeheartedly with both of the following theses:

1. In 1974 the Greek Cypriots were brutally ethnically cleansed from one-third of this island.

2. In the years immediately following 1974, settlers were brought in from mainland Turkey to the north of Cyprus with the express intent of altering the ethnic make up of the island and making a settlement more difficult.

However, this does not alter the fact that a lot of water has flowed under the bridge. You can forget the image of the Turkish peasant with Anatolian dust still clinging to his boots who will be happy to pack his bags and depart along with his wife and swaddled child if you stuff a thousand euros in his pocket. That swaddled child may well be bringing up a family by now, and knows no other home apart from Cyprus.

Others may have given up hope, but I for one prefer to remain optimistic about the current peace process for as long as it lasts. This question of the settlers appears to me to be one of the hardest problems that has to be solved. This will have to be done from within the humanitarian norms of the European Union. I don't see any easy answers.

If I may quote from Professor Kikapu's post above

"... aside from those who are born in the USA who obtains US citizenship automatically, regardless of the parents legal status in the country ..."

this appears to support my claim that in no civilised country the children, and certainly not the grandchildren, of illegal immigrants who were born in the host country, can be deported. This, surely, is the point I am trying to make.

[Tim Drayton]

The hard fact remains that this is a very thorny issue. We are looking at a dynamic situation which is nothing like as cut and dried as it was five or ten years after the occupation. Some settler families are in their third generation and intermarriage with Turkish Cypriots is taking place. There is not a single country in the European Union in which people who were born in that country and whose parents were also born in that country can be deported on the grounds that their grandparents were illegal immigrants. As time goes by, the problem becomes more and more complex. You can either bury your head in the sand and engage in denial, or grasp this thorn. It is an issue that has to be addressed realistically if there is to be a comprehensive settlement.

It certainly is a thorny issue. People who for generations (the Greek Cypriots) lived in Cyprus have an equal or, some would argue, a better right to be in that part of Cyprus. Turkey deliberately and out of malice caused the problem, Turkey should sort it out but not at the expense of the GCs. It's time the EU UN and other responsible bodies made Turkey face up to the racist crime it commited in Cyprus or is the same old story - might is right.

Greek Cypriots undoubtedly have a right to live anywhere in their own country. However, it is not a zero sum game. Can Greek Cypriots who wish to do so not be permitted to return to their properties while at the same time accomodation is made for people who have lived all of their lives in Cyprus to remain there?

[Kikapu]

I agree wholeheartedly with both of the following theses:

1. In 1974 the Greek Cypriots were brutally ethnically cleansed from one-third of this island.

2. In the years immediately following 1974, settlers were brought in from mainland Turkey to the north of Cyprus with the express intent of altering the ethnic make up of the island and making a settlement more difficult.

However, this does not alter the fact that a lot of water has flowed under the bridge. You can forget the image of the Turkish peasant with Anatolian dust still clinging to his boots who will be happy to pack his bags and depart along with his wife and swaddled child if you stuff a thousand euros in his pocket. That swaddled child may well be bringing up a family by now, and knows no other home apart from Cyprus.

Others may have given up hope, but I for one prefer to remain optimistic about the current peace process for as long as it lasts. This question of the settlers appears to me to be one of the hardest problems that has to be solved. This will have to be done from within the humanitarian norms of the European Union. I don't see any easy answers.

If I may quote from Professor Kikapu's post above

"... aside from those who are born in the USA who obtains US citizenship automatically, regardless of the parents legal status in the country ..."

this appears to support my claim that in no civilised country the children, and certainly not the grandchildren, of illegal immigrants who were born in the host country, can be deported. This, surely, is the point I am trying to make.

If I may quote from Professor Kikapu's post above

"... aside from those who are born in the USA who obtains US citizenship automatically, regardless of the parents legal status in the country ..."

Tim, you will find that the USA is very unique in offering citizenship to anyone born on their soil, regardless of the legal status of the child's parents.

[Jerry]

The hard fact remains that this is a very thorny issue. We are looking at a dynamic situation which is nothing like as cut and dried as it was five or ten years after the occupation. Some settler families are in their third generation and intermarriage with Turkish Cypriots is taking place. There is not a single country in the European Union in which people who were born in that country and whose parents were also born in that country can be deported on the grounds that their grandparents were illegal immigrants. As time goes by, the problem becomes more and more complex. You can either bury your head in the sand and engage in denial, or grasp this thorn. It is an issue that has to be addressed realistically if there is to be a comprehensive settlement.

It certainly is a thorny issue. People who for generations (the Greek Cypriots) lived in Cyprus have an equal or, some would argue, a better right to be in that part of Cyprus. Turkey deliberately and out of malice caused the problem, Turkey should sort it out but not at the expense of the GCs. It's time the EU UN and other responsible bodies made Turkey face up to the racist crime it commited in Cyprus or is the same old story - might is right.

Greek Cypriots undoubtedly have a right to live anywhere in their own country. However, it is not a zero sum game. Can Greek Cypriots who wish to do so not be permitted to return to their properties while at the same time accomodation is made for people who have lived all of their lives in Cyprus to remain there?

I think overcrowding could become an issue in that case. The Greek Cypriots should be given priority in any property dispute in the north and if it means that immigrants are displaced then so be it, Turkey should bear the cost of their relocation either on the island or the mainland. The same rules should apply to TCs returning south.

It's not going to happen though is it!