Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

Tim, 10,000 euros per head, paid by Turkey to her own citizens, will be enough money for every one of the settlers to voluntary choose their repatriation back to Turkey! Even if we talk about 100,000 heads, that means 1 billion euros, or 20 F-16's less for the Turkish air force! Not a big punitive damage for lawless Turkey, to pay for her crimes in Cyprus!

PS1: Turkey already has 300 F-16's in her arsenal, therefore 20 less won't be a big deal!

PS1: Everybody, including Rauf Denkatsh and Ecevit, know whose responsibility it was that a settlement was not achieved earlier! Ask them and you will see!

[Oracle]

The hard fact remains that this is a very thorny issue. We are looking at a dynamic situation which is nothing like as cut and dried as it was five or ten years after the occupation. Some settler families are in their third generation and intermarriage with Turkish Cypriots is taking place. There is not a single country in the European Union in which people who were born in that country and whose parents were also born in that country can be deported on the grounds that their grandparents were illegal immigrants. As time goes by, the problem becomes more and more complex. You can either bury your head in the sand and engage in denial, or grasp this thorn. It is an issue that has to be addressed realistically if there is to be a comprehensive settlement.

It certainly is a thorny issue. People who for generations (the Greek Cypriots) lived in Cyprus have an equal or, some would argue, a better right to be in that part of Cyprus. Turkey deliberately and out of malice caused the problem, Turkey should sort it out but not at the expense of the GCs. It's time the EU UN and other responsible bodies made Turkey face up to the racist crime it commited in Cyprus or is the same old story - might is right.

Greek Cypriots undoubtedly have a right to live anywhere in their own country. However, it is not a zero sum game. Can Greek Cypriots who wish to do so not be permitted to return to their properties while at the same time accomodation is made for people who have lived all of their lives in Cyprus to remain there?

I think overcrowding could become an issue in that case. The Greek Cypriots should be given priority in any property dispute in the north and if it means that immigrants are displaced then so be it, Turkey should bear the cost of their relocation either on the island or the mainland. The same rules should apply to TCs returning south.

It's not going to happen though is it!

Sure. Title to property and leave to remain in the country are two different things. There is absolutely no doubt who has legal title to all property in Cyprus. I support no other settlement apart from one that respects the rule of law - that means that all trepassers have to vacate the property they occupy, unless the legal owners care to do some kind of deal with them. Settlers who are illegally occupying property need to vacate it, but this does not necessarily mean that they should be forced to leave Cyprus.
As to what is really going to happen - I don't know.

Tim, as it is well known, Turkey has a secret policy of usurpation of northern Cyprus from its legitimate inhabitants, through colonization with its own people from Turkey. This is in fact the policy they previously successfully followed in Alexandreta of Syria (Hatay,) which they managed to Turkify through gradual colonization. On the basis of the "principle" you have utilized above and had Turkey allowed or transferred in the early years of the illegal Turkish occupation, half a million people instead of only 40-50 thousands, would you still say that we should also accepted their staying behind after a solution? If so, isn't it like we vindicate and reward Turkey's plans and policies to demographically usurp other people's lands and countries?

And one last thing, where would the right of the indigenous inhabitants to the maintenance of their cultural identity and political independence go, if they accept that the overwhelming majority of the population in their country will be originating from a foreign country, with a different cultural orientation? Furthermore, where does the international law stand in such a case, which prohibits the colonization of an occupied country by the people of the occupying force (3rd Geneva Convention?) Would you have followed the same logic in your argumentation, if instead of a few tens of thousands of mainland Turks, we were talking about a few hundreds of thousands; and if not, why? Wouldn't the principle you are introducing in order to argue in favor of their stay still be the same?

I understand your points. If a settlement had been achieved earlier, then this issue would not have taken on these dimensions. I am not trying to argue for any particular solution; I am just saying that this issue is growing ever more complex with the passage of time. It has to be approached with a certain amount of realism. I don't believe that a European Union member state can address this problem without taking the humanitarian issue into account. The kind of arguments that Soyer is using would strike a chord with a great many Europeans. A figure of fifty thousand is being touted as an acceptable compromise. Five or ten years down the road, even this proposal may be unfeasible.

I thought Turkey was carrying out this colonisation procedure right from the very start.

Having expanded the population sufficiently to intensify the magnitude of the problem, only recently has Turkey been talking about solutions (having prepared itself well with this "weapon" over some 3 decades).

[Tim Drayton]

No compromise=no settlement
No settlement=annexation of the north of Cyprus to Turkey

To my mind it is as stark as that.

[Kifeas]

No compromise=no settlement
No settlement=annexation of the north of Cyprus to Turkey

To my mind it is as stark as that.

Tim, the GC side has already made a hugely tremendous and unprecedented compromise, by accepting in principle a Bizonal and a Bicommunal Federation, with political equality of the two communities! No room for any further compromises!

I remind you that the GC community, besides being the 80% of the indigenous inhabitants of the island, it was equally spread all over the 4 corners of Cyprus throughout all of our history, which is at least 10 times longer in this country than that of the TC community! Try asking Turkey to do the same type of compromise for the Kurdish issue!

Sorry, but no settlement means a.) Continuation of Turkey's illegalities and human rights violations in Cyprus, with all the relevant consequences deriving with her non-compliance with the ECHR decisions, b.) Termination of Turkey's EU accession process, and c.) Continuation of the TC community's economic, social and political isolation!

[Tim Drayton]

No compromise=no settlement
No settlement=annexation of the north of Cyprus to Turkey

To my mind it is as stark as that.

Tim, the GC side has already made a hugely tremendous and unprecedented compromise, by accepting in principle a Bizonal and a Bicommunal Federation, with political equality of the two communities! Try asking Turkey to do the same type of compromise for the Kurdish issue!

I remind you that the GC community, besides being the 80% of the indigenous inhabitants of the island, it was equally spread all over the 4 corners of Cyprus throughout all of our history, which is at least 10 times longer in this country than that of the TC community! No room for any further compromises!

Sorry, but no settlement means a.) Continuation of Turkey's illegalities and human rights violations in Cyprus, with all the relevant consequences deriving with her non-compliance with the ECHR decisions, b.) Termination of Turkey's EU accession process, and c.) Continuation of the TC community's economic, social and political isolation!

You have drawn an analogy with the Turkish annexation of Hatay. I would remind you that today Hatay is a province of the Turkish Republic and faces no isolation whatsoever. The north of Cyprus would be in a similar position following annexation.

[Kifeas]

No compromise=no settlement
No settlement=annexation of the north of Cyprus to Turkey

To my mind it is as stark as that.

Tim, the GC side has already made a hugely tremendous and unprecedented compromise, by accepting in principle a Bizonal and a Bicommunal Federation, with political equality of the two communities! Try asking Turkey to do the same type of compromise for the Kurdish issue!

I remind you that the GC community, besides being the 80% of the indigenous inhabitants of the island, it was equally spread all over the 4 corners of Cyprus throughout all of our history, which is at least 10 times longer in this country than that of the TC community! No room for any further compromises!

Sorry, but no settlement means a.) Continuation of Turkey's illegalities and human rights violations in Cyprus, with all the relevant consequences deriving with her non-compliance with the ECHR decisions, b.) Termination of Turkey's EU accession process, and c.) Continuation of the TC community's economic, social and political isolation!

You have drawn an analogy with the Turkish annexation of Hatay. I would remind you that today Hatay is a province of the Turkish Republic and faces no isolation whatsoever. The north of Cyprus would be in a similar position following annexation.

Annexation of Hatay occurred before the appearance of international law as we currently know it, before the drafting of the UN Charter, before the appearance of the UN organization, and certainly before Syria's EU accession! Turkey will never manage to achieve formal annexation of northern occupied Cyprus, neither recognition of it as a separate entity, without our signature! We plan to make full use of all the above means and ways, including our privilege to be an EU and an EMU member state, so that we will never allow Turkey to vindicate and legalize one single of its after 1974 illegal fait accomplices against our country and people! We plan to use all means and ways, including -besides the Russians and the Chinese, an alliance with devil if it so be; but we will never allow Turkey to achieve what it illegitimately planned in Cyprus! If the EU doesn't come in full support of what is evidently a gross bunch of illegalities against another EU member state, we may as well go as far as cause to it a complete paralysis! The biggest victims in this "tug-of-war" equation, will unfortunately be the TC community; therefore it is up to them to open up their eyes and raise their voices against the illegitimate aims and "might is right" policies of their "motherland," as soon as possible!

[Viewpoint]

No sane TC will "wake up" as you put it unless a solution is put on the table that adresses our concerns and that we can commit to never forget that we to have the right to reject a plan we do not like or feel is unfair.

[Oracle]

No sane TC will "wake up" as you put it unless a solution is put on the table that adresses our concerns and that we can commit to never forget that we to have the right to reject a plan we do not like or feel is unfair.

I wonder what fantasy fears could be concerning the TCs now to hold things up ...

[Nikitas]

Tim,

you mentioned annexation as a possible development. But annexation is precisely what we have now. Whether it becomes official or goes on as it has since 1974 makes not the slightest bit of difference. The other choice as presented so far is to accept the permanent residence of settlers in the north, and give these people a say, in fact politically equal status over the whole island.

Bearing in mind that the TCs themselves would not want to consider themselves equal to the settlers how can the GCs do what the TCs will not.

The head of the teacher's union was on the BIZ programme on RIKSAT not so long ago and he was quite clear about the approach of his union towards the settlers. It is obvious that a major problem is brewing in the north over the settler issue. It is one problem the TCs will have to solve by themselves, the GCs cannot, for obvious reasons be involved. And so far the only practical way to solve it is to compensate people and let them go back to their places of origin.

[repulsewarrior]

...30%, is that what Turkish Cypriots and TC's represent to the population as a whole (now) ?

On the basis of the Republic's Constitution, is there a chance for its reform (therefore) ?

(proportionally, Turkey "cleansed" one-third of the Greek Cyprot population, about the same as the displacement ten years ealier that was forced on Turkish Cypriots.)

...now the question,

What is Bicommunal, and moreso, what is Bizonal?

...just as important, the fate of the settlers
and, if we believe in Humanity
what about the displaced?

Victims, all I see is victims
...the Teachers Union is being accused of racism?

as Turcophones and not as Turks
they are identifying a threat of of extinction.