Cyprus-Forum.com

[halil]

Kikabumu ,
you are making DEMAGOJİ again mate .
didn't i said i have no idea about persentages .
I said there is a different claims from both sides . to find out which one is correct , it is the only oneway to put all the legal documents on the negatiation table and find out .rest of it is only propaganda and claim . it doesn't make any sense for me now . i hope you have read below link .
read it and see what is the differences between them . İf they are all correct .

http://1.1.1.1/440167084/277556784T0806 ... pDocuments)/EF6541C01C87AC8EC125729C003130C9/$file/PRIO+Cyprus+Property+Report.pdf

[74LB]

Just to help out with Halil's link to the PDF doc called "The Politics of Property in Cyprus" ..... copy the full link below and paste it into your browser...

http://www.nrc.ch/8025708F004CE90B/(httpDocuments)/EF6541C01C87AC8EC125729C003130C9/$file/PRIO+Cyprus+Property+Report.pdf

all that http://1.1.1.1/.... stuff confuses it I think

[74LB]

Kikapu, I think your figures are 'interesting' ...

And of course the TC's have their own land in the north, about only 20% and the rest belongs to the GC's.

Taking the above into consideration does this mean that with the land in the South, the TC's can claim to own a fair bit more than 20%

Nice try 74LB.

No it does not mean that at all. I think you have interpolated the whole TC land percentages inaccurately. We are only talking about the north and I'm only giving an approximate based on percentage of the TC's and GC's population that lived in the area before 1974 which is now where the "trnc" sits on.

If you interpolate the land size and population of both the communities in the south before '74 accurately, since it's close to same number of TC's who lived in the south prior to '74, you will still end up around 20% (approx.), if not less, since there were perhaps more GC's in the south at the time in comparison to GC-TC ratios in the northern part before '74.

In any case, Kifeas gave us very accurate breakdown before on who owned what. It is just amazing, that Halil who claims to knows about everything regarding the north and the TC's situation in general as he continually posts political statements from the north without even questioning any of the comments made by the politicians which often borders propaganda, he is somehow having a difficulty in making a simple calculation as a layman that requires no knowledge of maths at all. Someone is not being very honest here at all, and that's what I question all the time, the lack of honesty, which is then is interpreted as me "taking the views of the othe side". I take the side of honesty and common sense. If I see smoke, there is a good chance, there is fire, and often, there is.

So, NO, you don't get 20% TC land in the north and 20% TC land in the south and combine the two to = 40%.

I think I know where you stand with figures & percentages regarding land and population, its just that I interpreted the above as you suddenly changing your stance and using figures that are a little 'more attractive' to the TC's.

I knew I was wrong.

[Kikapu]

Kikabumu ,
you are making DEMAGOJİ again mate .
didn't i said i have no idea about persentages .
I said there is a different claims from both sides . to find out which one is correct , it is the only oneway to put all the legal documents on the negatiation table and find out .rest of it is only propaganda and claim . it doesn't make any sense for me now . i hope you have read below link .
read it and see what is the differences between them . İf they are all correct .

http://1.1.1.1/440167084/277556784T0806 ... pDocuments)/EF6541C01C87AC8EC125729C003130C9/$file/PRIO+Cyprus+Property+Report.pdf

Halil,
I read most of the whole print in the pdf. and the best calculations one can come up with, the TC's land % in the NORTH is somewhere between 16.31% to 21.1%.

I have never read any report as this one, where so many "assumed interpretations" were made after the fact (mostly by TC's) from the original agreements going back 20-30 years.

I think this is where all the "Blond Jokes" came from..........

[Kikapu]

I think I know where you stand with figures & percentages regarding land and population, its just that I interpreted the above as you suddenly changing your stance and using figures that are a little 'more attractive' to the TC's.

I knew I was wrong.

Had you read the original statement made to Halil more objectively 74LB, you would not have reached such conclusions that raised your expectation so high, to be deflated later on with the reality.!

I only want what belongs to us TC's and nothing more, that's all.!!

Take care.

[halil]

I think I know where you stand with figures & percentages regarding land and population, its just that I interpreted the above as you suddenly changing your stance and using figures that are a little 'more attractive' to the TC's.

I knew I was wrong.

Had you read the original statement made to Halil more objectively 74LB, you would not have reached such conclusions that raised your expectation so high, to be deflated later on with the reality.!

I only want what belongs to us TC's and nothing more, that's all.!! Take care.

Kikapu ,
show me a reliable link about land percentages that i can trust and believe

it must not TC or GC source .

as you have seen from above pdf version both sides has got different figures .

You are saying you want to know what percentages we have . ı said you , i have no idea . only i have is claims from both sides . that's why i don't trust any of them . only documents will clear it . not you , or me or others .
pray to Allah that we can come to that time .

many times i said for me percentages of the lands are not bother me at all . i only wishing fair solution in Cyprus for both sides demands .

[Kikapu]

Kikapu ,
show me a reliable link about land percentages that i can trust and believe

it must not TC or GC source .

as you have seen from above pdf version both sides has got different figures .

You are saying you want to know what percentages we have . ı said you , i have no idea . only i have is claims from both sides . that's why i don't trust any of them . only documents will clear it . not you , or me or others .
pray to Allah that we can come to that time .

many times i said for me percentages of the lands are not bother me at all . i only wishing fair solution in Cyprus for both sides demands .

show me a reliable link about land percentages that i can trust and believe.

it must not TC or GC source .

You right Halil, we should ask the Eskimos in Alaska to give us the true numbers of land ownership in Cyprus and not the TC's and the GC's.

I don't know why you make it so difficult. You game a link to read, which I read most of it on the pdf. and as a result I gave you rough estimation what the land ownership is between the GC's and the TC's in the north, which was in the "ball park" figures that I gave you initially, but you are not willing to accept those findings. Why is that??.

The truth to ownership of land is in the hands of every TC and GC with their ownership titles pre 1974. It is these documents that were documented way before 1974 that hold the truth for private land ownership. Anything else is just a smoke screen. To make claims that TC or GC land in the past were bought from ignorant people who did not understand what they were signing, must have agreed on the price and have gotten paid for it. Such negotiations can hardly be called "stealing" of TC or GC land from their rightful owners if the sellers were willing participants.. I'm sorry to say this, but ignorance is NO defence to try and make a claim today that all bought "stolen" land should be returned from 60, 70, 80, 100 years later to the TC's or the GC's.

Ignorant people make ignorant decisions everyday. What do you think the whole collapse of the "sub-prime" mortgage is all about, or the stock market bubble in the late 1990's, or the Pyramid scheme (Ponzi scheme) in Romania in the early 1990's where people lost most of their savings.. These people lost money, because others knew just a little bit more than they did. You can call it dishonesty, illegal or "theft", but they were all willing participants and no body put a gun to their head to do it. Thanks to the British, all land ownerships were kept in precise order. The only time it should become an issue, if two people hold a title deeds for the same piece of land, then one can investigate for fraud or theft and who the true owners is.

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu ,
show me a reliable link about land percentages that i can trust and believe

it must not TC or GC source .

as you have seen from above pdf version both sides has got different figures .

You are saying you want to know what percentages we have . ı said you , i have no idea . only i have is claims from both sides . that's why i don't trust any of them . only documents will clear it . not you , or me or others .
pray to Allah that we can come to that time .

many times i said for me percentages of the lands are not bother me at all . i only wishing fair solution in Cyprus for both sides demands .

show me a reliable link about land percentages that i can trust and believe.

it must not TC or GC source .

You right Halil, we should ask the Eskimos in Alaska to give us the true numbers of land ownership in Cyprus and not the TC's and the GC's.

I don't know why you make it so difficult. You game a link to read, which I read most of it on the pdf. and as a result I gave you rough estimation what the land ownership is between the GC's and the TC's in the north, which was in the "ball park" figures that I gave you initially, but you are not willing to accept those findings. Why is that??.

The truth to ownership of land is in the hands of every TC and GC with their ownership titles pre 1974. It is these documents that were documented way before 1974 that hold the truth for private land ownership. Anything else is just a smoke screen. To make claims that TC or GC land in the past were bought from ignorant people who did not understand what they were signing, must have agreed on the price and have gotten paid for it. Such negotiations can hardly be called "stealing" of TC or GC land from their rightful owners if the sellers were willing participants.. I'm sorry to say this, but ignorance is NO defence to try and make a claim today that all bought "stolen" land should be returned from 60, 70, 80, 100 years later to the TC's or the GC's.

Ignorant people make ignorant decisions everyday. What do you think the whole collapse of the "sub-prime" mortgage is all about, or the stock market bubble in the late 1990's, or the Pyramid scheme (Ponzi scheme) in Romania in the early 1990's where people lost most of their savings.. These people lost money, because others knew just a little bit more than they did. You can call it dishonesty, illegal or "theft", but they were all willing participants and no body put a gun to their head to do it. Thanks to the British, all land ownerships were kept in precise order. The only time it should become an issue, if two people hold a title deeds for the same piece of land, then one can investigate for fraud or theft and who the true owners is.

So what you are saying its fine for corrupt and exploitive governments to take "ignorant" uneducated simple people to the cleaners?

[halil]

President Mehmet Ali Talat’s Advisor Kutlay Erk has underlined the need for the two sides in Cyprus to be mutually honest without destroying trust.

He said new conditions should not be ‘continuously’ put on the table in the new solution process.

Mr Erk made his statements at a meeting held in German capital Berlin under the title ‘A new hope for Cyprus’.

The meeting was organized by the Southeast-European Society and the German Cyprus Forum at the Friedrich Ebert Foundation.

‘We are not the reason for the non-solution in Cyprus. The Turkish Cypriot side will do its best for a solution and it expects the Greek Cypriot Leader Demetris Christofias to respond in the same way` Mr Erk said.

Stating that a new era has kicked off in Cyprus following the Talat-Christofias meeting in March, Erk said the two leaders in Cyprus formed a common vision.

Underlining the need for the urgent start of negotiations, Mr Erk asked for the encouragement of UN and other third parties for the new solution process.

Also present at the meeting, the Leader of the Greek Cypriot Democratic Mobilization Party (DISI)-Nikos Anastasiades said both sides on the island had made mistakes in the past but steps must be taken for the future without getting stuck in the past.

‘The two sides can gain great achievements once the good will is there’ he added.

Also speaking, an official from the German Foreign Ministry- Peter Wittig expressed Germany’s support for a solution to the Cyprus problem and highlighted the importance of improving relations between Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots as well as reducing tension between the two sides.

‘The new negotiations process in Cyprus is different from the previous ones in the sense that it is now the two sides on the island who are shaping the talks on their own’ Wittig said.

The German official added that the real negotiations will be started, during which critical issues of the Cyprus problem will top the agenda, once working groups complete their works.

[Kikapu]

Kikapu ,
show me a reliable link about land percentages that i can trust and believe

it must not TC or GC source .

as you have seen from above pdf version both sides has got different figures .

You are saying you want to know what percentages we have . ı said you , i have no idea . only i have is claims from both sides . that's why i don't trust any of them . only documents will clear it . not you , or me or others .
pray to Allah that we can come to that time .

many times i said for me percentages of the lands are not bother me at all . i only wishing fair solution in Cyprus for both sides demands .

show me a reliable link about land percentages that i can trust and believe.

it must not TC or GC source .

You right Halil, we should ask the Eskimos in Alaska to give us the true numbers of land ownership in Cyprus and not the TC's and the GC's.

I don't know why you make it so difficult. You game a link to read, which I read most of it on the pdf. and as a result I gave you rough estimation what the land ownership is between the GC's and the TC's in the north, which was in the "ball park" figures that I gave you initially, but you are not willing to accept those findings. Why is that??.

The truth to ownership of land is in the hands of every TC and GC with their ownership titles pre 1974. It is these documents that were documented way before 1974 that hold the truth for private land ownership. Anything else is just a smoke screen. To make claims that TC or GC land in the past were bought from ignorant people who did not understand what they were signing, must have agreed on the price and have gotten paid for it. Such negotiations can hardly be called "stealing" of TC or GC land from their rightful owners if the sellers were willing participants.. I'm sorry to say this, but ignorance is NO defence to try and make a claim today that all bought "stolen" land should be returned from 60, 70, 80, 100 years later to the TC's or the GC's.

Ignorant people make ignorant decisions everyday. What do you think the whole collapse of the "sub-prime" mortgage is all about, or the stock market bubble in the late 1990's, or the Pyramid scheme (Ponzi scheme) in Romania in the early 1990's where people lost most of their savings.. These people lost money, because others knew just a little bit more than they did. You can call it dishonesty, illegal or "theft", but they were all willing participants and no body put a gun to their head to do it. Thanks to the British, all land ownerships were kept in precise order. The only time it should become an issue, if two people hold a title deeds for the same piece of land, then one can investigate for fraud or theft and who the true owners is.

So what you are saying its fine for corrupt and exploitive governments to take "ignorant" uneducated simple people to the cleaners?

No, I'm saying individuals who has engaged in such transactions, if true, have benefited at the expense of the ignorant. If it was the government, then that is another story, but so far we are talking about individuals, since we are talking about "private land ownership" and not "state land". If you have evidence that some of the state land was "stolen" from individuals because of their ignorance, then lets hear about it. Even then, if they were paid for it, I don't know how you can prove anything today, what happened 60-100 years ago, as being fraudulent. If we are going to give back everything all ignorant people in the world who made unwise transactions, then lets do it, but you can't be selective to only the cases you want to reverse.