Cyprus-Forum.com

[blackley]

Get Real
You are a fine one to challenge others to debate with you. I have thrown down the gauntlet to you before but as always you fail to properly respond. The replies to your post here are a true indication of the lack of ability to face the truth of the years leading to 1974. A debate is not a matter of throwing in one-liners. Unfortunately we cannot turn back the clock. I wonder what would have been the result of a referendum in 1960 giving ALL people living in Cyprus the choice.
1.Union with Greece.
2. Union with Great Britain (a la Gibraltar)
3.Accept thed Consitution as agreed to by Archbishop Makarios.
Interesting thought.

[Kifeas]

Get Real
You are a fine one to challenge others to debate with you. I have thrown down the gauntlet to you before but as always you fail to properly respond. The replies to your post here are a true indication of the lack of ability to face the truth of the years leading to 1974. A debate is not a matter of throwing in one-liners. Unfortunately we cannot turn back the clock. I wonder what would have been the result of a referendum in 1960 giving ALL people living in Cyprus the choice.
1.Union with Greece.
2. Union with Great Britain (a la Gibraltar)
3.Accept thed Consitution as agreed to by Archbishop Makarios.
Interesting thought.

Blackley, if you think the truth of the years "leading to 1974," is the one presented by the Turkish side as we come to know it, i.e. a "truth" that is nowhere nearly documented by anyone other official source, in spite the fact that both the British and the UN were full time here in little Cyprus all these years; then I am afraid it is you that is lacking the ability to face it!

The RoC and the GC side have several times invited Turkey to the ICJ to prove its case and that of the TCs, against ours! The fact that Turkey has ignored all such invitations is the ultimate evidence of who says the truth and who exaggerates, distorts and manipulates it! If Turkey has had the slightest faith and conviction that whatever happened in 1974 and afterwards, could have been fairly and reasonably justified by what had happened before it, then it would have had no problem in proceeding the ICJ of The Hague!

The truth is that both Turkey and the TC leadership of the time, had managed to opportunistically gain a considerable advantage in 1974, towards the fulfillment of their historical illegitimate “national objectives,” and they felt and still feel the need to defend it by all means, including the distortion and manipulation of the then and previously existing facts on the ground! How else could or would they justifiy it?

By the way, Turkey spends half a billion dollars a year in buying out lobbyists and journalists worldwide, to further its propaganda. Make sure you get your share in this!

[denizaksulu]

bill .. please brush up on your posting skills .... (or are you just trigger happy with excitement! )

Yeah our Deniz is due for retirement, CopperLine is re-discovering his misspent student days, Bir has been exposed, Greek-envying Gabira has re-surfaced as soyer, and crushed already, kentish is too stupid to reply to and Big AL is too busy BBQuing and getting friendly with Boomerang ....

Bring on the fresh meat ...

Oracle dear,
Only on my retirement will I be able to fully give you the satisfaction you so dearly crave. In the meantime you have to make do with the other Deniz. (Deniz of ATCA not to be confused with Deniz Aksulu) Enjoy your new toy. I doubt they will show there face. If they have followed your posts they will surely avoid you.

[miltiades]

Please no more Plonkers we have enough of them on this forum , but let us hear them before they are " baptised " or is it " circumcised " Plonkers !!

[denizaksulu]

Please no more Plonkers we have enough of them on this forum , but let us hear them before they are " baptised " or is it " circumcised " Plonkers !!

The 'Baptism'party are ready, Oracle will take great pleasure in overlooking the circumcision , if need be. In both cases the 'plonk' will be needed.

[DT.]

unfortunately just a couple of brainless idiots who can't decide on whether they want to play the victim genocide card or the all mighty Turkey crushed you and will crush you every time!! card. (really can't understand how anyone can be both but anyway.)

GR keep looking.

[Piratis]

Get Real
You are a fine one to challenge others to debate with you. I have thrown down the gauntlet to you before but as always you fail to properly respond. The replies to your post here are a true indication of the lack of ability to face the truth of the years leading to 1974. A debate is not a matter of throwing in one-liners. Unfortunately we cannot turn back the clock. I wonder what would have been the result of a referendum in 1960 giving ALL people living in Cyprus the choice.
1.Union with Greece.
2. Union with Great Britain (a la Gibraltar)
3.Accept thed Consitution as agreed to by Archbishop Makarios.
Interesting thought.

So why was such a referendum never allowed to take place so the people of Cyprus would be allowed to decide the destiny of their own island in a peaceful and democratic way?

Interesting that the British made such referendum in Gibraltar because they knew the result would suit them, but in Cyprus they instead choose to go to war against the Cypriot people instead of allowing a peaceful referendum to take place.

The truth of the years leading to 1974:

- The Cypriot people have been ruled by oppressive foreign empires for centuries, like it was the case with the rest of the Greek islands and territories.

- Since 1821 the Greeks of all those areas and islands revolted, seeking liberation, freedom and the establishment of their own free state.

- Some Greek territories and islands were liberated soon after the revolution, some continued to fight and were liberated much later. (Rhodos and the Dodecanese being the last islands to unite with Greece in 1948)

- Cyprus was/is in a strategic position and the foreign rulers refused to allow Cyprus to be decolonized and refused to allow any democratic referendum to take place. They told to the Cypriot people that Cypriots would be forever their slaves.

- The Cypriot people revolted again in 1955.

- The British seeing how the revolution of the Cypriot people could not be easily oppressed, they brought in Turkey in the game, promising to the Turks huge gains on our loss if the Turks helped them to successfully oppress our revolution.

- In 1958 the TCs attacked the GCs (as per their agreement with the British) and the "inter-communal" conflict started. 100s of people from both sides where killed.

- In 1959, Makarios was blackmailed, and given no other option he accepted to sign the "agreements" that the British had made, hoping that this way would end the conflict.

- Those agreements that the British forced on us benefited everybody else on the loss of the native Cypriot people, and they were unworkable.

- In 1963 the president of Cyprus made proposals for the change of those agreements so they would become more fair and workable. The Turks rejected the proposals, and the inter-communal conflict restarted which lasted until 1968. Again both sides had about an equal number of losses.

- In 1974 the junta of Greece and EOKA B overthrew Makarios and a conflict between Greeks in Cyprus started. Turkey found that weak moment of Cyprus as a good chance to invade and take half of our island, something which they were planning since the 50s and which never stopped to be the aim of Turks (and TCs). They used the lame excuse that they supposedly invaded Cyprus to save the TCs who were being killed. The truth though is that no TC was killed in 1974 before the Turkish invasion had started.

The above is in brief the whole history of the Cyprus problem. Some Turks want to ignore all the politics and the important facts that went on, and instead talk only about their own losses. As if the Nazis started talking about their own losses during WWII that would make them the innocent victims somehow.

Cypriots never ventured out of their own island to harm anybody. It is others who kept invading us, wanting to impose their rule undemocratically over us, and exploit us and our island.

The only things that Cypriots ever fought for was for their human and democratic rights on their own island.

[Agios Ionas]

The truth though is that no TC was killed in 1974 before the Turkish invasion had started.

This is the story as I've been told:

In July 1974 during the coup d'état the Greek junta supported EOKA-B first took care of those loyal to Makarios. Jailing/killing them. Some fought back, some went into hiding. Some fled to the mountains and regrouped so they could perform classic guerilla raids against the fascists.

I was under the impression that EOKA-B then turned their sights onto the TC's. I've learned from what I consider credible sources (UNFICYP personnel stationed in Famagusta) that TC's actually did get killed. At least in the Old City of Famagusta. EOKA-B were outside the walls shooting. TC's where shooting back. UNFICYP were between them unable (not allowed) to do anything about it. EOKA-B used mortars and some people behind the walls ended up with injuries and a couple of deaths were reported. Then Turkey started the invasion July 20th and EOKA-B released all the Makarios supporters giving them their rifles back so they could all fight their common enemy... the Turks.

Are you suggesting that the reported deaths of a couple of TC's in the Old City of Famagusta prior to July 20th 1974 are nothing but rumours? I'm just asking since it's quite possible. UNFICYP personnel did not have the situation under control. It was chaotic and many conflicting reports were made between July 15th and 20th.

Perhaps it was later revealed that these deaths happened after the invasion started rather than before? I'm not saying it is one way or another. I'm merely sharing the information I have received from people who were on location in Famagusta July 1974. Whether this information is 100% accurate or not I can't tell. It was however considered to be accurate when it was given to the UNFICYP personnel during that particular week.

[Get Real!]

Get Real
You are a fine one to challenge others to debate with you. I have thrown down the gauntlet to you before but as always you fail to properly respond. The replies to your post here are a true indication of the lack of ability to face the truth of the years leading to 1974. A debate is not a matter of throwing in one-liners. Unfortunately we cannot turn back the clock. I wonder what would have been the result of a referendum in 1960 giving ALL people living in Cyprus the choice.
1.Union with Greece.
2. Union with Great Britain (a la Gibraltar)
3.Accept thed Consitution as agreed to by Archbishop Makarios.
Interesting thought.

Blackley, not only are you a 2-cent author who writes junk books that don’t sell, but you are also a LIAR because there is not a shred of evidence that you have EVER challenged me anywhere, other than offering me a copy of your book at one time on ATCA, yet plenty of offers coming from my direction to be found on the CF and elsewhere…and every time you disappear! Here is the evidence where’s YOURS?

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/post-293976

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/post-186384

http://www.network54.com/Forum/233837/t ... y+Blackley

[74LB]

The truth though is that no TC was killed in 1974 before the Turkish invasion had started.

This is the story as I've been told:

In July 1974 during the coup d'état the Greek junta supported EOKA-B first took care of those loyal to Makarios. Jailing/killing them. Some fought back, some went into hiding. Some fled to the mountains and regrouped so they could perform classic guerilla raids against the fascists.

I was under the impression that EOKA-B then turned their sights onto the TC's. I've learned from what I consider credible sources (UNFICYP personnel stationed in Famagusta) that TC's actually did get killed. At least in the Old City of Famagusta. EOKA-B were outside the walls shooting. TC's where shooting back. UNFICYP were between them unable (not allowed) to do anything about it. EOKA-B used mortars and some people behind the walls ended up with injuries and a couple of deaths were reported. Then Turkey started the invasion July 20th and EOKA-B released all the Makarios supporters giving them their rifles back so they could all fight their common enemy... the Turks.

Are you suggesting that the reported deaths of a couple of TC's in the Old City of Famagusta prior to July 20th 1974 are nothing but rumours? I'm just asking since it's quite possible. UNFICYP personnel did not have the situation under control. It was chaotic and many conflicting reports were made between July 15th and 20th.

Perhaps it was later revealed that these deaths happened after the invasion started rather than before? I'm not saying it is one way or another. I'm merely sharing the information I have received from people who were on location in Famagusta July 1974. Whether this information is 100% accurate or not I can't tell. It was however considered to be accurate when it was given to the UNFICYP personnel during that particular week.

I was 14yrs old at the time and lived in one of the 3 small TC communities just outside the old City of Magusa. Between the 15th & the 20th July all TC's were advised to stay within their community/village.

Up till the 20th July I am not aware of any TC casualties within the old walls, but I do know that from about 10:00 on the morning of the 20th, the GC's launched an attack on these 3 TC communities as well as onto the old City itself.

The rest, as they say is history.