Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

You are right there Kikapu. Its the 'egg before the chicken' situation. Who began the 'revenge' killings? When GCs refer to 1571 arent they doing exactly the same thing? Its a pointless exercise that contributes absolutely nothing to the future of Cyprus. Past misdeeds brought up by either side only have a 'divisive' role in the future of Cyprus.

I really do not think the events of 1963 and onwards were the acts of revenge from 1571, but rather from the actions of 1950's and onwards. I really believe there's no need to go back any further than 1950's to see our problems and correct them. In comparison to ugly events that took place in other countries that were much worse than ours, who have rebuilt their societies in a multi ethnic ways, we really do not have any excuses at all to do the same, even though, many try very hard to make them.

[lovernomore]

Russian archives refute Armenian “genocide” claims

Turkish academic, Mehmet Perincek, has uncovered a 65-page report while conducting research at the Russian State Military History Archives, Hurriyet daily reported on Monday. The report was written by Brigadier General Leonid Bolkhovinitov and sent to the Russian headquarters in Dec. 11, 1915.

"Armenian voluntary units had started violent slaughters against the Muslim people with racist motives," the report was quoted as saying by Hurriyet.

The Russian general also said in his report the information given by the Armenians "are politically-motivated" and did not reflect the actual situation in the region. He also named the incidents as, "The issue defined as the Armenian question."

"We shall not believe in the death tolls that the Armenians give. The number of missing people has been exaggerated in the memos distributed by the Dashnak party and there is no doubt that they are politically-motivated. Those Armenian gangs, who triggered the slaughters, are the ones who should be blamed for those missing," Bolkhovinitov said in his report.

He also accused England of provoking the Armenians to prevent a potential alliance between the Ottoman Empire and Russia. "Before that Turks, Armenians, and Kurds used to live in peace. Even the living conditions of Armenians were much better than Kurds' and Turks," he added.

This report is likely to create a new perspective on the Armenian claims, given the fact that Russia and the Ottomans were enemies during the late 1910s, increasing the importance of the report.

Turkey says parliaments and other political institutions are not the appropriate bodies to debate and pass judgment on disputed periods of history. Past events and controversial periods of history should be left to historians for their dispassionate study and evaluation.

However Turkey's efforts to carry a deeper investigation have yet to have a positive outcome. In 2005, Turkey officially proposed to the Armenian government the establishment of a joint historical commission composed of historians and other experts from both sides to study together the events of 1915 and to open the archives of Turkey and Armenia, as well as the archives of all relevant third-party countries and share their findings publicly. Unfortunately, Armenia has not yet responded positively to this initiative and Turkey's proposal remains on the table.
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/turk ... 1&sz=32455

[denizaksulu]

You are right there Kikapu. Its the 'egg before the chicken' situation. Who began the 'revenge' killings? When GCs refer to 1571 arent they doing exactly the same thing? Its a pointless exercise that contributes absolutely nothing to the future of Cyprus. Past misdeeds brought up by either side only have a 'divisive' role in the future of Cyprus.

I really do not think the events of 1963 and onwards were the acts of revenge from 1571, but rather from the actions of 1950's and onwards. I really believe there's no need to go back any further than 1950's to see our problems and correct them. In comparison to ugly events that took place in other countries that were much worse than ours, who have rebuilt their societies in a multi ethnic ways, we really do not have any excuses at all to do the same, even though, many try very hard to make them.

Perhaps you should inform your friends Piratis and the purveyor (or prostitutor) of fine messages from 1571)

[Get Real!]

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/turkey/9192242.asp?gid=231&sz=32455

The Hurriyet is a joke. Ever heard of credible evidence?

series of brutal campaigns conducted against the Armenian subjects of the Ottoman Empire by Sultan Abdülhamid II in 1894–96 and by the Young Turk government in 1915–16.

It is estimated that nearly two million Christian Armenians lived in the Ottoman Empire by the late 1880s. The Armenians in the eastern provinces at that time, encouraged by Russia, began promoting Armenian territorial…

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-90 ... -massacres

[denizaksulu]

Russian archives refute Armenian “genocide” claims

Turkish academic, Mehmet Perincek, has uncovered a 65-page report while conducting research at the Russian State Military History Archives, Hurriyet daily reported on Monday. The report was written by Brigadier General Leonid Bolkhovinitov and sent to the Russian headquarters in Dec. 11, 1915.

"Armenian voluntary units had started violent slaughters against the Muslim people with racist motives," the report was quoted as saying by Hurriyet.

The Russian general also said in his report the information given by the Armenians "are politically-motivated" and did not reflect the actual situation in the region. He also named the incidents as, "The issue defined as the Armenian question."

"We shall not believe in the death tolls that the Armenians give. The number of missing people has been exaggerated in the memos distributed by the Dashnak party and there is no doubt that they are politically-motivated. Those Armenian gangs, who triggered the slaughters, are the ones who should be blamed for those missing," Bolkhovinitov said in his report.

He also accused England of provoking the Armenians to prevent a potential alliance between the Ottoman Empire and Russia. "Before that Turks, Armenians, and Kurds used to live in peace. Even the living conditions of Armenians were much better than Kurds' and Turks," he added.

This report is likely to create a new perspective on the Armenian claims, given the fact that Russia and the Ottomans were enemies during the late 1910s, increasing the importance of the report.

Turkey says parliaments and other political institutions are not the appropriate bodies to debate and pass judgment on disputed periods of history. Past events and controversial periods of history should be left to historians for their dispassionate study and evaluation.

However Turkey's efforts to carry a deeper investigation have yet to have a positive outcome. In 2005, Turkey officially proposed to the Armenian government the establishment of a joint historical commission composed of historians and other experts from both sides to study together the events of 1915 and to open the archives of Turkey and Armenia, as well as the archives of all relevant third-party countries and share their findings publicly. Unfortunately, Armenia has not yet responded positively to this initiative and Turkey's proposal remains on the table.
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/turk ... 1&sz=32455

Thank you lover no more. Very interesting article. Its a pity the American Congress Library has not seen this document yet. Cypriots have 100% faith in their reports.


A belated welcome to the Cyprus Forum

[Kikapu]

You are right there Kikapu. Its the 'egg before the chicken' situation. Who began the 'revenge' killings? When GCs refer to 1571 arent they doing exactly the same thing? Its a pointless exercise that contributes absolutely nothing to the future of Cyprus. Past misdeeds brought up by either side only have a 'divisive' role in the future of Cyprus.

I really do not think the events of 1963 and onwards were the acts of revenge from 1571, but rather from the actions of 1950's and onwards. I really believe there's no need to go back any further than 1950's to see our problems and correct them. In comparison to ugly events that took place in other countries that were much worse than ours, who have rebuilt their societies in a multi ethnic ways, we really do not have any excuses at all to do the same, even though, many try very hard to make them.

Perhaps you should inform your friends Piratis and the purveyor (or prostitutor) of fine messages from 1571)

I have not spoken to GR about this, therefore will bear that in mind for the future.

I have told Piratis many times, that 1571 is pointless in discussing it. The only times Piratis brings up 1571 is when some of our ill informed and antagonistic TC members use the word "genocide" to describe what the GC's did to the TC's in the 60's.

It is obvious, that some people do not understand the meaning of the word "genocide".

As I remember, even Talat had a problem with Piratis and 1571 which Papadopoulous try to defend Piratis.

Ah, here it is.

Papadopoulous: Which GC members do you find annoying on the Forum?

Talat: Well, there are quite a few, but I would like to kick Piratis's ass for sure. I mean for fuck sake Tassos, how many times do I have to read the same shit about the Ottomans going back 400 fucking years. Enough already. What was done back then, was done.

Papadopoulous: I know Piratis and he really is not a bad person. He just wants to draw similarities of the past with the Ottomans and the Turks of Turkey today, that's all, and as soon as he gets a lot of abuse, he goes back to 1571 and beyond, as far as 3,500 years. Give him that, he’s got a long fucking memory.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=13198

[Get Real!]

Deniz & Kikapu,

The VERY BIRTH of “Turkish Cypriotness” took place with the first full-scale Ottoman invasion of Cyprus in 1570 and yet some of you people are still wondering over its importance and relevance???

If someone was to ask… “What are the ORIGINS of the Turkish Cypriots, where did they come from?”

Is it possible to correctly answer this question without reference to this fundamental event/date???

Grow up the both of you!

[ARMENIAN CYPRIOT]

Russian archives refute Armenian “genocide” claims

Turkish academic, Mehmet Perincek, has uncovered a 65-page report while conducting research at the Russian State Military History Archives, Hurriyet daily reported on Monday. The report was written by Brigadier General Leonid Bolkhovinitov and sent to the Russian headquarters in Dec. 11, 1915.

"Armenian voluntary units had started violent slaughters against the Muslim people with racist motives," the report was quoted as saying by Hurriyet.

The Russian general also said in his report the information given by the Armenians "are politically-motivated" and did not reflect the actual situation in the region. He also named the incidents as, "The issue defined as the Armenian question."

"We shall not believe in the death tolls that the Armenians give. The number of missing people has been exaggerated in the memos distributed by the Dashnak party and there is no doubt that they are politically-motivated. Those Armenian gangs, who triggered the slaughters, are the ones who should be blamed for those missing," Bolkhovinitov said in his report.

He also accused England of provoking the Armenians to prevent a potential alliance between the Ottoman Empire and Russia. "Before that Turks, Armenians, and Kurds used to live in peace. Even the living conditions of Armenians were much better than Kurds' and Turks," he added.

This report is likely to create a new perspective on the Armenian claims, given the fact that Russia and the Ottomans were enemies during the late 1910s, increasing the importance of the report.

Turkey says parliaments and other political institutions are not the appropriate bodies to debate and pass judgment on disputed periods of history. Past events and controversial periods of history should be left to historians for their dispassionate study and evaluation.

However Turkey's efforts to carry a deeper investigation have yet to have a positive outcome. In 2005, Turkey officially proposed to the Armenian government the establishment of a joint historical commission composed of historians and other experts from both sides to study together the events of 1915 and to open the archives of Turkey and Armenia, as well as the archives of all relevant third-party countries and share their findings publicly. Unfortunately, Armenia has not yet responded positively to this initiative and Turkey's proposal remains on the table.
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/turk ... 1&sz=32455

Thank you lover no more. Very interesting article. Its a pity the American Congress Library has not seen this document yet. Cypriots have 100% faith in their reports.

Here is somthing yoy may enjoy Deniz.
A belated welcome to the Cyprus Forum

Turkish History Institute (TTK) President Yusuf Halacoglu was supposed to meet with Ara Sarafyan, the author of Blue Book, which is seen as one of the most important documents backing Armenian claims. Both sides were supposed to produce various documents to argue their case, the first such meeting,” observer Mehmet Ali Birand writes in Turkish Daily News.

“Armenians usually don't participate in such meetings. Sarafyan was very important in this respect. His visit was supposed to provide a huge boost to Turkey's call for historians focusing on the matter, discussing and debating it,” he continues.

“Suddenly, we were all told the meeting was cancelled. Professor Halacoglu held a press conference and said Sarafyan had cancelled the trip, presenting an article in weekly Agos that said the Armenian Diaspora was furious about Sarafyan's trip. That was the reason of cancellation, he said. Now we learn that the real reason why the meeting was cancelled was very different. It appears Halacoglu refused to open the archives without limits and objected to presenting certain documents. What was this all about? If you were not going to show the documents, why would you ask for a meeting? Why do you organize such a meeting before agreeing on the conditions of opening of the archives? Why do you initiate a process you cannot go take to the finish? No one will ever believe Turkey when it proposes to open the archives and share all the documents so that historians can discuss the matter. Turkey will sail alone in the stormy European waters. There is no one to offer us a shelter in his or her harbor anymore. Our job will become more difficult from now on,” Mehmet Ali Birand writes.

[ARMENIAN CYPRIOT]

Just for you VP. The Armenian archives are open for the researchers of the whole world, though the Turkish scientists due to unknown reasons have never requested them, said Armenian permanent representative in BSECO Arsen Avagian when commenting on the statement of Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who said that the Armenian archives are closed. In Arsen Avagian's words, the document regarding the Armenian Genocide of 1915 are kept in the Central History Archive and in the Archive of Political Parties and are available for the scientists of the whole world, including the Turkish ones.

[ARMENIAN CYPRIOT]

When will the Armenians give the world the whole truth? Why not rise to the challenge of Turkey and open all vaults to the historians, let them examine exactly what happened and reveal the truth once and for all, putting the debate finally to bed.

The day the Turks open the border and attempt to normalize relations.

Which borders, they give you points every year at the Eurovision song contest and get nothing in return, what more do you guys want?

Indeed, I hope One day the Roc can also give you TC'S a good score. That should make eveything even with you guys