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The Anachronistic Kemalist Ideology

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Tim Drayton » Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:07 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:The last time the generals seized power in Turkey (12 September 1980) they threw out the liberal 1961 constitution, eventually replacing it with the far more restrictive 1982 constitution. So much for the generals upholding the "Kemalist constitution", whatever that may be.


Had the minority ethnic groups such as the Kurds had a "Veto Power" vote against changes to the Constitution, this would have never happened. :lol:


According to Amnesty International, a quarter of a million people were arrested after the coup, and almost all of them were tortured.
(Amnesty International, Turkey: Human Rights Denied, London, November 1988, AI Index: EUR/44/65/88, ISBN 086210 156 5, p. 1)

I do not think that anybody had much in the way of a "veto power" at the time.
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Postby Kikapu » Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:36 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:The last time the generals seized power in Turkey (12 September 1980) they threw out the liberal 1961 constitution, eventually replacing it with the far more restrictive 1982 constitution. So much for the generals upholding the "Kemalist constitution", whatever that may be.


Had the minority ethnic groups such as the Kurds had a "Veto Power" vote against changes to the Constitution, this would have never happened. :lol:


According to Amnesty International, a quarter of a million people were arrested after the coup, and almost all of them were tortured.
(Amnesty International, Turkey: Human Rights Denied, London, November 1988, AI Index: EUR/44/65/88, ISBN 086210 156 5, p. 1)

I do not think that anybody had much in the way of a "veto power" at the time.


I hope you got my sarcasm Tim on the subject of "Veto Power".!!!

I do not think that anybody had much in the way of a "veto power" at the time.

Or even now, for that matter.!!
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Postby Tim Drayton » Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:40 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:The last time the generals seized power in Turkey (12 September 1980) they threw out the liberal 1961 constitution, eventually replacing it with the far more restrictive 1982 constitution. So much for the generals upholding the "Kemalist constitution", whatever that may be.


Had the minority ethnic groups such as the Kurds had a "Veto Power" vote against changes to the Constitution, this would have never happened. :lol:


According to Amnesty International, a quarter of a million people were arrested after the coup, and almost all of them were tortured.
(Amnesty International, Turkey: Human Rights Denied, London, November 1988, AI Index: EUR/44/65/88, ISBN 086210 156 5, p. 1)

I do not think that anybody had much in the way of a "veto power" at the time.


I hope you got my sarcasm Tim on the subject of "Veto Power".!!!

I do not think that anybody had much in the way of a "veto power" at the time.

Or even now, for that matter.!!


I appreciate your sarcasm. I couldn't resist driving the point home, though.
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Postby Oracle » Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:48 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:The last time the generals seized power in Turkey (12 September 1980) they threw out the liberal 1961 constitution, eventually replacing it with the far more restrictive 1982 constitution. So much for the generals upholding the "Kemalist constitution", whatever that may be.


In what way would you say it was liberal?
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Postby Kikapu » Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:48 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:The last time the generals seized power in Turkey (12 September 1980) they threw out the liberal 1961 constitution, eventually replacing it with the far more restrictive 1982 constitution. So much for the generals upholding the "Kemalist constitution", whatever that may be.


Had the minority ethnic groups such as the Kurds had a "Veto Power" vote against changes to the Constitution, this would have never happened. :lol:


According to Amnesty International, a quarter of a million people were arrested after the coup, and almost all of them were tortured.
(Amnesty International, Turkey: Human Rights Denied, London, November 1988, AI Index: EUR/44/65/88, ISBN 086210 156 5, p. 1)

I do not think that anybody had much in the way of a "veto power" at the time.


I hope you got my sarcasm Tim on the subject of "Veto Power".!!!

I do not think that anybody had much in the way of a "veto power" at the time.

Or even now, for that matter.!!


I appreciate your sarcasm. I couldn't resist driving the point home, though.


Got it..............thanks Tim.!!
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Postby Tim Drayton » Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:29 pm

Oracle wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:The last time the generals seized power in Turkey (12 September 1980) they threw out the liberal 1961 constitution, eventually replacing it with the far more restrictive 1982 constitution. So much for the generals upholding the "Kemalist constitution", whatever that may be.


In what way would you say it was liberal?


Most importantly, it permitted academic freedom and the development of civil society. Both of these were crushed under the 12 September junta. The eighties, in my opinion, were a lost decade for Turkey, which would be a very different place today if the 1961 constitution had remained in place.
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