Cyprus-Forum.com

[DT.]

The tall lady claims no need for any guarantees just peace, love and trust, how will those 3 factors provide the deterrent necessary to stop the majority from stamping all over the minority?

Why don't you give us an example where minorities are stumped over by the majority in any of the EU member countries where their Democratic and Human Rights are violated, and then we can all agree with you that the "tall lady" is full of crap.!!

Your confusing normal EU countries with GC style democracy and human rights, they have a chequered past towards TCs and just one majority decision to stop trade with turkey could send the TC reeling or the lack of guarantees opens the door for internal unrest which will put every ones lives in danger. If you want to look at a country that is in the EU but has constant problems with one of its regions look at Spain or the communities in France who have rioted due to unfair discrimination which does not allow them to work or be employed. The GCs are masters and manipulating and twisting matters in the their favor, we do not want to be exposed to such dangers ever again so there has to be concrete safeguards and deterrents that will not allow them the free hand they so long for.

Every country in Europe have a checkered past, and they have all moved forward, or haven't you heard it yet. "Time does not stand still" as I keep reminding you, but it seems like you are stuck in a time warp, deliberately or not, but it is time for you to move forward, and it cannot be done like it used to be done in the past, even by "old" European countries. Those practices have no place in the EU and if the TC's are going to be take their place in the EU (officially), then they too will need to live in the present and not in the past.

Once again you are more interested keeping trade with Turkey then being loyal to your country of Cyprus. If trade with Turkey is broken, it will be for a good reason. As DT said few days ago, "if there is money to be made, why would trade be broken". I gave you a hypothetical situation on another thread regarding breaking trade with Turkey which you did not answer. Do you think Turkey will act responsibly with Cyprus if they knew that no matter what they do, the TC's are going to block any action against Turkey with their "veto vote". I think Turkey will act more responsibly if there was NO "veto vote". As you always say VP, "the knife cuts both ways".

Sure they have had some riots in France, and UK, and USA, and so on. There are also hate groups in every country. I'm sure not everything is hunky dory between the TC's and the settlers in the north. The important thing is, there are laws that protect the rights of all citizens. The one advantage the TC's will have over all other minorities in the countries you have mentioned, their own "state" where they are the majority, and where most of the job givers and takers will be TC's. What you want is your own "country", just like what the Basque wants which is another matter altogether, or at the very least, inequalities between the communities in your advantage over the other community. This is what will keep the communities apart through resentment and hate.

WHy wouldn't everything be allright between the majority settlers and the tc's. Don't the tc's have a special minority status given to them by the settlers? Or is it one of joint partnership?

They are TRNC citizens full stop, they do not have any agreements and accept to live by our laws and rules when they come settle in the TRNC just like if you decided to go live in the UK. The difference is that we are joint partners both indigenous to this land its the actual formulation of the laws and rules that we cannot agree as you want to use your numerical advantage to push me out of the way.

And what happens tomorrow if there is a plan that is very good for the TC's and the GC's but calls for the majority of settlers to leave?

The tc's vote yes the settlers vote no. Are they using their numerical advantage to push you out of the way?

[Kikapu]

Kikapu

Every country in Europe have a checkered past, and they have all moved forward, or haven't you heard it yet. "Time does not stand still" as I keep reminding you, but it seems like you are stuck in a time warp, deliberately or not, but it is time for you to move forward, and it cannot be done like it used to be done in the past, even by "old" European countries. Those practices have no place in the EU and if the TC's are going to be take their place in the EU (officially), then they too will need to live in the present and not in the past.

I agree every country had problems in the past but for every country is unique and the GCs are no acception, we have to learn by the past mistakes to build a future whereby they will not be reappeated and we will not kick ourselves for falling into the same traps. The safeguards are exactly for this reason to ensure the past mistkaes are no repeated and to ensure everyone abides by the rules agreed at the out, why do you GCs have a problem with this? I have asked this many times but no one has attempted an answer must tell you someting.

Once again you are more interested keeping trade with Turkey then being loyal to your country of Cyprus. If trade with Turkey is broken, it will be for a good reason. As DT said few days ago, "if there is money to be made, why would trade be broken". I gave you a hypothetical situation on another thread regarding breaking trade with Turkey which you did not answer. Do you think Turkey will act responsibly with Cyprus if they knew that no matter what they do, the TC's are going to block any action against Turkey with their "veto vote". I think Turkey will act more responsibly if there was NO "veto vote". As you always say VP, "the knife cuts both ways".

You dismiss our concerns of trade yet in the same breath have no problem stating that if trade is blocked it will be for a good reason. Excuses can always be provided to do something Kikapu you obvious trust GCs 100% to do the right thing but we do not and have to ask for safeguards to ensure they do. Without these we will be left to the mercy of the GCs who wants to smoke us out and into they mould they wish to put us in. Do you think TCs will act in favor of Turkey and not Cyprus if it came to the crunch, if you do then you obviously do not know the TC people, all we want is for our life line not to be severed, most of our trade is with Turkey and it will take time to change this, a GC veto as you put it would send our economy reeling and again at the mercy of the GCs to step in bail us out which will cause a great deal of resentment and problems.

Sure they have had some riots in France, and UK, and USA, and so on. There are also hate groups in every country. I'm sure not everything is hunky dory between the TC's and the settlers in the north. The important thing is, there are laws that protect the rights of all citizens. The one advantage the TC's will have over all other minorities in the countries you have mentioned, their own "state" where they are the majority, and where most of the job givers and takers will be TC's. What you want is your own "country", just like what the Basque wants which is another matter altogether, or at the very least, inequalities between the communities in your advantage over the other community. This is what will keep the communities apart through resentment and hate.

People apply laws and if these people are purely GCs then where do you think that will leave us? at their mercy to be manipulated and ignored. I agree with you that having our own state will go someway to resolving many issues, which over time and goodwill will evolve if all can see that unity is for the benefit of all.

why do you GCs have a problem with this

You can't even be trusted to tell the truth, and your above statement is the proof, since you lose credibility with such statement, so why should I even listen to the rest of your comments, no matter how realistic they may be. If this was in a court room, everything else you have written in your post will be thrown into the rubbish bin as not being credible, because of your above inaccurate statement made deliberately. Perhaps it is you who needs to give out safeguards to others as well as expecting the same from others in return, since you are lacking in honesty, but you are ready to complain of others untrustworthiness..!!

I'll answer your post after I've calmed down at much later time.!!

[Viewpoint]

If they are given the right to vote then we will have to take into account their wishes as well like we did with the AP. I am confident that any such vote woudl go in line with TC wishes as many of the settlers have been here for many years and have had children here, any solution would have to take this into account.

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu

Every country in Europe have a checkered past, and they have all moved forward, or haven't you heard it yet. "Time does not stand still" as I keep reminding you, but it seems like you are stuck in a time warp, deliberately or not, but it is time for you to move forward, and it cannot be done like it used to be done in the past, even by "old" European countries. Those practices have no place in the EU and if the TC's are going to be take their place in the EU (officially), then they too will need to live in the present and not in the past.

I agree every country had problems in the past but for every country is unique and the GCs are no acception, we have to learn by the past mistakes to build a future whereby they will not be reappeated and we will not kick ourselves for falling into the same traps. The safeguards are exactly for this reason to ensure the past mistkaes are no repeated and to ensure everyone abides by the rules agreed at the out, why do you GCs have a problem with this? I have asked this many times but no one has attempted an answer must tell you someting.

Once again you are more interested keeping trade with Turkey then being loyal to your country of Cyprus. If trade with Turkey is broken, it will be for a good reason. As DT said few days ago, "if there is money to be made, why would trade be broken". I gave you a hypothetical situation on another thread regarding breaking trade with Turkey which you did not answer. Do you think Turkey will act responsibly with Cyprus if they knew that no matter what they do, the TC's are going to block any action against Turkey with their "veto vote". I think Turkey will act more responsibly if there was NO "veto vote". As you always say VP, "the knife cuts both ways".

You dismiss our concerns of trade yet in the same breath have no problem stating that if trade is blocked it will be for a good reason. Excuses can always be provided to do something Kikapu you obvious trust GCs 100% to do the right thing but we do not and have to ask for safeguards to ensure they do. Without these we will be left to the mercy of the GCs who wants to smoke us out and into they mould they wish to put us in. Do you think TCs will act in favor of Turkey and not Cyprus if it came to the crunch, if you do then you obviously do not know the TC people, all we want is for our life line not to be severed, most of our trade is with Turkey and it will take time to change this, a GC veto as you put it would send our economy reeling and again at the mercy of the GCs to step in bail us out which will cause a great deal of resentment and problems.

Sure they have had some riots in France, and UK, and USA, and so on. There are also hate groups in every country. I'm sure not everything is hunky dory between the TC's and the settlers in the north. The important thing is, there are laws that protect the rights of all citizens. The one advantage the TC's will have over all other minorities in the countries you have mentioned, their own "state" where they are the majority, and where most of the job givers and takers will be TC's. What you want is your own "country", just like what the Basque wants which is another matter altogether, or at the very least, inequalities between the communities in your advantage over the other community. This is what will keep the communities apart through resentment and hate.

People apply laws and if these people are purely GCs then where do you think that will leave us? at their mercy to be manipulated and ignored. I agree with you that having our own state will go someway to resolving many issues, which over time and goodwill will evolve if all can see that unity is for the benefit of all.

why do you GCs have a problem with this

You can't even be trusted to tell the truth, and your above statement is the proof, since you lose credibility with such statement, so why should I even listen to the rest of your comments, no matter how realistic they may be. If this was in a court room, everything else you have written in your post will be thrown into the rubbish bin as not being credible, because of your above inaccurate statement made deliberately. Perhaps it is you who needs to give out safeguards to others as well as expecting the same from others in return, since you are lacking in honesty, but you are ready to complain of others untrustworthiness..!!

I'll answer your post after I've calmed down at much later time.!!

Sorry not with you please clarify.

[DT.]

If they are given the right to vote then we will have to take into account their wishes as well like we did with the AP. I am confident that any such vote woudl go in line with TC wishes as many of the settlers have been here for many years and have had children here, any solution would have to take this into account.

WHat if it doesn't though vp...what if we agree that whats best for the tc's and the gc's is not for the settlers. WIll you allow them to decide the future for both of us? Should you not protect your numerical diadvantage from them somehow?

[Viewpoint]

If they are given the right to vote then we will have to take into account their wishes as well like we did with the AP. I am confident that any such vote woudl go in line with TC wishes as many of the settlers have been here for many years and have had children here, any solution would have to take this into account.

WHat if it doesn't though vp...what if we agree that whats best for the tc's and the gc's is not for the settlers. WIll you allow them to decide the future for both of us? Should you not protect your numerical diadvantage from them somehow?

I am confident that the overall population will do the right thing but to address your concern I have say the TC "minority" as you claim in the north should also be assessed in order to confirm that both are in uniform and that it is not against the wishes of TC with Cypriot parentage, this would also alleviate GC concerns.

[Jerry]

VP, its quite simple really. Cyprus will never be a truly democratic country if another country has a legal right to interfere in its affairs. Perhaps you can tell us where else on this earth one country has such a right and then explain why the TCs are so special that they enjoy such privileged "protection". Its been said before but I'm going to repeat it anyway, Turkey had a legal right to intervene in Cyprus in 1974 but it abused that right by expelling one third of the population from their homes. Turkey cannot be trusted with a right to intevene because of what it did in 1974. I have no doubt that the EU will be very aware of the history of the two communities in the event of a fair solution, in fact it would not be unreasonable for the EU to establish a monitoring system for a period.

[DT.]

If they are given the right to vote then we will have to take into account their wishes as well like we did with the AP. I am confident that any such vote woudl go in line with TC wishes as many of the settlers have been here for many years and have had children here, any solution would have to take this into account.

WHat if it doesn't though vp...what if we agree that whats best for the tc's and the gc's is not for the settlers. WIll you allow them to decide the future for both of us? Should you not protect your numerical diadvantage from them somehow?

I am confident that the overall population will do the right thing but to address your concern I have say the TC "minority" as you claim in the north should also be assessed in order to confirm that both are in uniform and that it is not against the wishes of TC with Cypriot parentage, this would also alleviate GC concerns.

So now we need to talk about a system that protects the TC minority population and another system under that to protect the tc minority in the minority of Cyprus parentage.

So how many levels of protection do you need VP?
Protection from the GC majority, protection from the settler majority so that their decisions go in line with the tc's. And then to top it all off you claim

They are TRNC citizens full stop, they do not have any agreements and accept to live by our laws and rules when they come settle in the TRNC just like if you decided to go live in the UK. The difference is that we are joint partners both indigenous to this land its the actual formulation of the laws and rules that we cannot agree as you want to use your numerical advantage to push me out of the way

You the chosen ones my friend need to be proected from everyone it seems.

[Kikapu]

Kikapu

Every country in Europe have a checkered past, and they have all moved forward, or haven't you heard it yet. "Time does not stand still" as I keep reminding you, but it seems like you are stuck in a time warp, deliberately or not, but it is time for you to move forward, and it cannot be done like it used to be done in the past, even by "old" European countries. Those practices have no place in the EU and if the TC's are going to be take their place in the EU (officially), then they too will need to live in the present and not in the past.

I agree every country had problems in the past but for every country is unique and the GCs are no acception, we have to learn by the past mistakes to build a future whereby they will not be reappeated and we will not kick ourselves for falling into the same traps. The safeguards are exactly for this reason to ensure the past mistkaes are no repeated and to ensure everyone abides by the rules agreed at the out, why do you GCs have a problem with this? I have asked this many times but no one has attempted an answer must tell you someting.

Once again you are more interested keeping trade with Turkey then being loyal to your country of Cyprus. If trade with Turkey is broken, it will be for a good reason. As DT said few days ago, "if there is money to be made, why would trade be broken". I gave you a hypothetical situation on another thread regarding breaking trade with Turkey which you did not answer. Do you think Turkey will act responsibly with Cyprus if they knew that no matter what they do, the TC's are going to block any action against Turkey with their "veto vote". I think Turkey will act more responsibly if there was NO "veto vote". As you always say VP, "the knife cuts both ways".

You dismiss our concerns of trade yet in the same breath have no problem stating that if trade is blocked it will be for a good reason. Excuses can always be provided to do something Kikapu you obvious trust GCs 100% to do the right thing but we do not and have to ask for safeguards to ensure they do. Without these we will be left to the mercy of the GCs who wants to smoke us out and into they mould they wish to put us in. Do you think TCs will act in favor of Turkey and not Cyprus if it came to the crunch, if you do then you obviously do not know the TC people, all we want is for our life line not to be severed, most of our trade is with Turkey and it will take time to change this, a GC veto as you put it would send our economy reeling and again at the mercy of the GCs to step in bail us out which will cause a great deal of resentment and problems.

Sure they have had some riots in France, and UK, and USA, and so on. There are also hate groups in every country. I'm sure not everything is hunky dory between the TC's and the settlers in the north. The important thing is, there are laws that protect the rights of all citizens. The one advantage the TC's will have over all other minorities in the countries you have mentioned, their own "state" where they are the majority, and where most of the job givers and takers will be TC's. What you want is your own "country", just like what the Basque wants which is another matter altogether, or at the very least, inequalities between the communities in your advantage over the other community. This is what will keep the communities apart through resentment and hate.

People apply laws and if these people are purely GCs then where do you think that will leave us? at their mercy to be manipulated and ignored. I agree with you that having our own state will go someway to resolving many issues, which over time and goodwill will evolve if all can see that unity is for the benefit of all.

why do you GCs have a problem with this

You can't even be trusted to tell the truth, and your above statement is the proof, since you lose credibility with such statement, so why should I even listen to the rest of your comments, no matter how realistic they may be. If this was in a court room, everything else you have written in your post will be thrown into the rubbish bin as not being credible, because of your above inaccurate statement made deliberately. Perhaps it is you who needs to give out safeguards to others as well as expecting the same from others in return, since you are lacking in honesty, but you are ready to complain of others untrustworthiness..!!

I'll answer your post after I've calmed down at much later time.!!

Sorry not with you please clarify.

Now you are really taking the piss.!!

Perhaps you need better reading glasses to read what I "enlarged" for you to read.!!

Have a nice day VP, and don't forget to pray tonight so that all your wishes will come true some day.!!

It may pay to be selective and limit the number of wishes you want to become true.!!

You'll have a better chance of success this way.!!

[Viewpoint]

If they are given the right to vote then we will have to take into account their wishes as well like we did with the AP. I am confident that any such vote woudl go in line with TC wishes as many of the settlers have been here for many years and have had children here, any solution would have to take this into account.

WHat if it doesn't though vp...what if we agree that whats best for the tc's and the gc's is not for the settlers. WIll you allow them to decide the future for both of us? Should you not protect your numerical diadvantage from them somehow?

I am confident that the overall population will do the right thing but to address your concern I have say the TC "minority" as you claim in the north should also be assessed in order to confirm that both are in uniform and that it is not against the wishes of TC with Cypriot parentage, this would also alleviate GC concerns.

So now we need to talk about a system that protects the TC minority population and another system under that to protect the tc minority in the minority of Cyprus parentage.

So how many levels of protection do you need VP?
Protection from the GC majority, protection from the settler majority so that their decisions go in line with the tc's. And then to top it all off you claim

They are TRNC citizens full stop, they do not have any agreements and accept to live by our laws and rules when they come settle in the TRNC just like if you decided to go live in the UK. The difference is that we are joint partners both indigenous to this land its the actual formulation of the laws and rules that we cannot agree as you want to use your numerical advantage to push me out of the way

You the chosen ones my friend need to be proected from everyone it seems.

You are the who has a problem by insisting we are a minority in the north, I have no such concerns at the current time. My concern is my partner status when it comes to GCs with whom we have a problematic and dark past.