Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

One side needs to be convinced that democracy and human rights are not just codewords for oppression and forced assimilation

In 1960 the TCs negotiated to get as much power as they could... Do you blame them??? If you want to build a house,and one of the builders or contractors offer you a good deal,would you refuse???

Conclusion:

It is not about convincing the TCs about the rightness of anything, since what is just and fair is irrelevant. What is relevant is what is the better deal for themselves. Obviously for them it will always be a better deal to have all those undemocratic and unfair gains on our loss, and therefore they will never be convinced to accept democracy and human rights.

So Bir please stop asking from us to sign away our rights and then just sit and wait when TCs will be convinced to allow us to have them back, which it will be never for the obvious reasons you and I explained already.

We have suffered many times more than the TCs, and still we are not asking from anybody to give up his human and democratic rights. That is not the way to create trust, but on the contrary it is a recipe for more animosity and problems.

Bir, I know you know very well what is right and will benefit both communities. Your assumption that because the TCs can not be convinced to do what is right we should now try to convince the GCs to do what is wrong, is a false one. Not only doing what is wrong will not be the solution, it will also be a step backwards in our efforts for a solution.

[BirKibrisli]

One side needs to be convinced that democracy and human rights are not just codewords for oppression and forced assimilation

In 1960 the TCs negotiated to get as much power as they could... Do you blame them??? If you want to build a house,and one of the builders or contractors offer you a good deal,would you refuse???

Conclusion:

It is not about convincing the TCs about the rightness of anything, since what is just and fair is irrelevant. What is relevant is what is the better deal for themselves. Obviously for them it will always be a better deal to have all those undemocratic and unfair gains on our loss, and therefore they will never be convinced to accept democracy and human rights.

So Bir please stop asking from us to sign away our rights and then just sit and wait when TCs will be convinced to allow us to have them back, which it will be never for the obvious reasons you and I explained already.

We have suffered many times more than the TCs, and still we are not asking from anybody to give up his human and democratic rights. That is not the way to create trust, but on the contrary it is a recipe for more animosity and problems.

Bir, I know you know very well what is right and will benefit both communities. Your assumption that because the TCs can not be convinced to do what is right we should now try to convince the GCs to do what is wrong, is a false one. Not only doing what is wrong will not be the solution, it will also be a step backwards in our efforts for a solution.

Piratis...Please don't think that I have changed my mind about the best solution we can have...I firmly believe the only solution which will be durable and just is the one you and I believe in...Getting together in a Unitary state,putting our ethnicity aside,learning to live in a democratic country where the only thing that counts is ones ability,skill,and human values....

But this is not going to happen now...I am looking at things with a realist's glasses now...What is the point of insisting on the ideal when one side is simply not going to accept it...???And what is the point of getting angry and frustrated and decide that under no circumstances will there be any compromise from the best solution...???Both sides are the victims in this.
The victims should stop fighting each other,blaming each other,insulting each other,and negotiate till the cows come home if necessary,until some common ground is reached...Then from that little seed we should grow a big and strong tree which will withstand all the natural and artificial forces which will be thrown at it...I said this before and I meant it...The status quo is the worst thing for the TCs at least...I also believe it is the worst thing for the GCs but I will not blame you if you don't see it as such...

I think it is the worst because it will inevitably lead to the extinction of the TC community as we know it...And it will result in the de facto annexation of the North by Turkey...Not one inch of land would be returned,and not one refugee would exercise his/her right of return...You will find yourselves sharing Cyprus with 1 million settlers armed to the teeth and eager for you to make the first move...And the cycle of misery would go on and on and on...no matter who happenes to win the battles,no one would be able to win the war...Another 3-4-5 generations of Cypriots would grow up hating each other,and spend their lives resenting the ground their compatriots walk on...Human rights and a sense of justice are very important,but so is the ultimate future of our homeland and our people...You let the status quo continue and the TCs become extinct,and you are cutting off the branch you are sitting on...When the branch falls and you fall with it there will be noone to catch you at the bottom...You better make sure you have learned to fly,without wings...

[Viewpoint]

Bir excellent posts, I have to give credit where credit is due, your methodology is both clear and precise but unfortunately it fall on deaf ears, you cannot agree zilch with people who not see you as equals who do not want to share but only use their majority status to bash you into a pulp so that you disappear. I commend you on your patience and for reflecting the TCs viewpoint but in time maybe even now you have realized there is no way we can find common ground to find a solution.

[DT.]

Hang on people, cause I keep asking this and i'm not getting any answers. I know perfectly well what we as the numerical majority are forced to compromise on in a BBF. WHat exactly are the compromises made by the TC's?

[Viewpoint]

Hang on people, cause I keep asking this and i'm not getting any answers. I know perfectly well what we as the numerical majority are forced to compromise on in a BBF. WHat exactly are the compromises made by the TC's?

Sending the Turkish Army home.

[DT.]

Hang on people, cause I keep asking this and i'm not getting any answers. I know perfectly well what we as the numerical majority are forced to compromise on in a BBF. WHat exactly are the compromises made by the TC's?

Sending the Turkish Army home.

Put that down to one your benefits out of this deal. Those lazy uneducated mujahedin slobs will not be missed by a great many TC's.

[Viewpoint]

Hang on people, cause I keep asking this and i'm not getting any answers. I know perfectly well what we as the numerical majority are forced to compromise on in a BBF. WHat exactly are the compromises made by the TC's?

Sending the Turkish Army home.

Put that down to one your benefits out of this deal. Those lazy uneducated mujahedin slobs will not be missed by a great many TC's.

So getting rid of our protection is a benefit for TCs? Your twisted logic is once again revealed, you will say and do anything to not accept anything we put forward then why the hell are you here?

[BirKibrisli]

Hang on people, cause I keep asking this and i'm not getting any answers. I know perfectly well what we as the numerical majority are forced to compromise on in a BBF. WHat exactly are the compromises made by the TC's?

Well...here is what I think the average TC believes the compromises are,DT...

1.We have already made the ultimate compromise;left our place of birth,became refugees in our own country...Some of us paid even a greater price by becoming migrants in foreign lands...Why should we get up and move again to accomodate those who caused us all this trouble.

2.We now have Turkey's protection and our right to life is guaranteed...
By agreeing to a BBF we will agree to the withdrawal of the Turkish soldiers...This might put us to the ultimate risk of losing our lives should the GCs decide to implement Akritas version2...

3...We are our own masters...We have close ties with our motherland and have our own state...agreeing to a Federation or Worse,a Unitary state, would mean betraying the state our ancestors have shed their bloods to built...

4.Our motherland has shed blood to give us this freedom...She has been feeding us for the past 44 years,through thick and thin...The least we can do is show some gratitude and refuse to do anything with our sworn enemy,and the enemy of our nation...

5.We refuse to believe that the GCs have given up on the idea of Enosis...They had many years to remove the Greek flags,the Greek national anthem,and curb the political power of the Church...They have done none of this..Their past President are on the record for praising the efforts of the GCs to fly the Hellenic flag in Cyprus...As soon as Turkey turns her back they will try to oppress and dominate us,turn us into GCs by force...

6. A TCs friend can only be another TC or a Turk...So why should we want to have to do anything with those who want to drink our blood..


I can go an and on,but i think you get the drift,DT...and don't blame me,i am only the medium...

[DT.]

Hang on people, cause I keep asking this and i'm not getting any answers. I know perfectly well what we as the numerical majority are forced to compromise on in a BBF. WHat exactly are the compromises made by the TC's?

Sending the Turkish Army home.

Put that down to one your benefits out of this deal. Those lazy uneducated mujahedin slobs will not be missed by a great many TC's.

So getting rid of our protection is a benefit for TCs? Your twisted logic is once again revealed, you will say and do anything to not accept anything we put forward then why the hell are you here?

I had in mind a civilised discussion with you but the 1 brain cell you're borrowing today got you name-calling before i had a chance to respond in the way i'd like to..

[Viewpoint]

Hang on people, cause I keep asking this and i'm not getting any answers. I know perfectly well what we as the numerical majority are forced to compromise on in a BBF. WHat exactly are the compromises made by the TC's?

Sending the Turkish Army home.

Put that down to one your benefits out of this deal. Those lazy uneducated mujahedin slobs will not be missed by a great many TC's.

So getting rid of our protection is a benefit for TCs? Your twisted logic is once again revealed, you will say and do anything to not accept anything we put forward then why the hell are you here?

I had in mind a civilised discussion with you but the 1 brain cell you're borrowing today got you name-calling before i had a chance to respond in the way i'd like to..

Do you read what you write is gives me the impression you haven't even got that 1 brain cell loosen up man we are human being to all we want to do is live our lives without the risk of GC dominance and persecution, you embody all that we fear a Gc gone crazy who has no problem pulling the trigger to a babies head as long as that baby is TC.