Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

Okey,everyone...You can stop all this war talk now..Cypriots have more sense than that...And we do learn out lessons...It is time to practice our empathy and compassion skills....We all know what is stopping us from embracing each other as brother and sister compatriots...Our sad history and the mistrust and bitterness that it has produced...Most of us are still in denial about our own community's role in this. It is no use turning a blind eye to history (Oracle, are you listening???) and insist we deal with the present "realities"...That would be fine if we all agreed on what those realities were...But we don't...So we all need to Get Real....

The GCs have to take a good and hard look at why Turkey felt compelled to invade in 1974...And why they decided to stay...The TCs have to take a good look at the cost of having Turkey as their mentor and guarantor...
And accept the fact that it is not in their own interest to assimilate with Turkey. It will be the end of a unique community,probably the only one in history to be willing participants in their own cultural and identity genocide... We will dig deep and find the necessary empathy and compassion ,and the sense of putting the future of Cyprus and Cypriots first. If I can do it,miltiades can do it,Kikapu can do it,Bananiot can do it,repulsewarrior can do it,Deniz can do it...so can you all...So put all your suspicions,mistrust,prejudice,bitterness and hatred aside...Take a good look in the mirror and repeat after me..."We were naive fools to have let the British,the Americans,The Turks and the Greeks convince us the only natives of Cyprus were the Donkeys!...We have grown up now.... We believe we are one people, one nation separated by two man-made, artificial factors...We are prepared to put the interest of our homeland,our motherland Cyprus first...The foreigners can all go to hell...We have suffered enough through serving their interests...We are taking our own fate in our own hands...So help us God/Allah/Buddha/Nature/Great Emptiness/(insert your own belief here)...."

Bir, I respect you but you're still living a dream. Can you honestly tell me that the vast majority of GC posters on this site show maturity, are prepared to treat us with respect etc, etc. ? The answer of course is no. Just look at all the offensive tripe thrown my way about the experience of my family. Where are the rational GC voices ? Where are the GC's prepared to compromise about the future of the island ? I've only come across one and that's Andros, and what's happened to him ?!!

I tell you Bir, I would gladly accept the TRNC becoming a part of Turkey, failing a negotiated settlement or recognition, rather than living with neanderthals prepared to stab me and my community in the back at the first opportunity. It's sad but reality.

Muzzy,we have to have our dreams,or we will all go mad...
I might be in denial myself,but i just can't believe we have not advanced enough after all this pain and suffering to the point where we can acknowledge each others faults,and contributions to the Problem,forgive and move on...But with GR and Oracle and Epsilon plying their hate trade,i don't blame you for thinking the way you do...please try to remember how much it hurts when people dismiss your own personal pain in the future... Thanks,mate...

[Oracle]

Reality perception problems abound ...

[BirKibrisli]

It is no use turning a blind eye to history (Oracle, are you listening???) and insist we deal with the present "realities"...That would be fine if we all agreed on what those realities were...But we don't...So we all need to Get Real....

I've never been accused of turning a blind eye to history before. I am usually told to forget what the Turks have done and move on.

So here was I, uncharacteristically confronting today's realities and you present yet another stumbling block.

As I suspected Bir ... whatever we propose, you contradict even if it means you contradict yourself in the process ....

You correctly though identify a difference in agreement on reality.

Why don't we look as some hard evidence to help identify those present day realities producing consternation, and see where we differ and agree.

I think a dedicated thread may give us a fresh start ...

Would someone take over doing one as I just meet with criticism from all sides whenever I embark on one.

Great idea,Oracle...Why don't you start a new thread on the "reality" which gives you most consternation...Try to make it neutral at least to start with...By that I mean try to avoid using words like "TC criminals" 'barbarian Turks" "Greedy thieves" etc...good luck...

[Muzzy70]

Okey,everyone...You can stop all this war talk now..Cypriots have more sense than that...And we do learn out lessons...It is time to practice our empathy and compassion skills....We all know what is stopping us from embracing each other as brother and sister compatriots...Our sad history and the mistrust and bitterness that it has produced...Most of us are still in denial about our own community's role in this. It is no use turning a blind eye to history (Oracle, are you listening???) and insist we deal with the present "realities"...That would be fine if we all agreed on what those realities were...But we don't...So we all need to Get Real....

The GCs have to take a good and hard look at why Turkey felt compelled to invade in 1974...And why they decided to stay...The TCs have to take a good look at the cost of having Turkey as their mentor and guarantor...
And accept the fact that it is not in their own interest to assimilate with Turkey. It will be the end of a unique community,probably the only one in history to be willing participants in their own cultural and identity genocide... We will dig deep and find the necessary empathy and compassion ,and the sense of putting the future of Cyprus and Cypriots first. If I can do it,miltiades can do it,Kikapu can do it,Bananiot can do it,repulsewarrior can do it,Deniz can do it...so can you all...So put all your suspicions,mistrust,prejudice,bitterness and hatred aside...Take a good look in the mirror and repeat after me..."We were naive fools to have let the British,the Americans,The Turks and the Greeks convince us the only natives of Cyprus were the Donkeys!...We have grown up now.... We believe we are one people, one nation separated by two man-made, artificial factors...We are prepared to put the interest of our homeland,our motherland Cyprus first...The foreigners can all go to hell...We have suffered enough through serving their interests...We are taking our own fate in our own hands...So help us God/Allah/Buddha/Nature/Great Emptiness/(insert your own belief here)...."

Bir, I respect you but you're still living a dream. Can you honestly tell me that the vast majority of GC posters on this site show maturity, are prepared to treat us with respect etc, etc. ? The answer of course is no. Just look at all the offensive tripe thrown my way about the experience of my family. Where are the rational GC voices ? Where are the GC's prepared to compromise about the future of the island ? I've only come across one and that's Andros, and what's happened to him ?!!

I tell you Bir, I would gladly accept the TRNC becoming a part of Turkey, failing a negotiated settlement or recognition, rather than living with neanderthals prepared to stab me and my community in the back at the first opportunity. It's sad but reality.

Muzzy,we have to have our dreams,or we will all go mad...
I might be in denial myself,but i just can't believe we have not advanced enough after all this pain and suffering to the point where we can acknowledge each others faults,and contributions to the Problem,forgive and move on...But with GR and Oracle and Epsilon plying their hate trade,i don't blame you for thinking the way you do...please try to remember how much it hurts when people dismiss your own personal pain in the future... Thanks,mate...

But Bir, I admire your idealism but of course it's not realistic is it ? I have, personally moved on but it's clear to me, from this site, as to which community hasn't. A 'true' RoC will never exist again. We tried, we failed. This is reality.

[Oracle]

It is no use turning a blind eye to history (Oracle, are you listening???) and insist we deal with the present "realities"...That would be fine if we all agreed on what those realities were...But we don't...So we all need to Get Real....

I've never been accused of turning a blind eye to history before. I am usually told to forget what the Turks have done and move on.

So here was I, uncharacteristically confronting today's realities and you present yet another stumbling block.

As I suspected Bir ... whatever we propose, you contradict even if it means you contradict yourself in the process ....

You correctly though identify a difference in agreement on reality.

Why don't we look as some hard evidence to help identify those present day realities producing consternation, and see where we differ and agree.

I think a dedicated thread may give us a fresh start ...

Would someone take over doing one as I just meet with criticism from all sides whenever I embark on one.

Great idea,Oracle...Why don't you start a new thread on the "reality" which gives you most consternation...Try to make it neutral at least to start with...By that I mean try to avoid using words like "TC criminals" 'barbarian Turks" "Greedy thieves" etc...good luck...

... A scientist must never interfere with the outcome of the experiments by discarding any results which do not meet requirements, no matter how unwelcome they might be.

[Get Real!]

...I have, personally moved on but it's clear to me, from this site, as to which community hasn't.

Muzzyree

That IS your real ATCA alias is it not?

Why don't you post some of the absurdities you were posting on ATCA not too long ago before its closure, so that everyone may take a free tour of your brain before making BIG statements...

[Sotos]

Okey,everyone...You can stop all this war talk now..Cypriots have more sense than that...And we do learn out lessons...It is time to practice our empathy and compassion skills....We all know what is stopping us from embracing each other as brother and sister compatriots...Our sad history and the mistrust and bitterness that it has produced...Most of us are still in denial about our own community's role in this. It is no use turning a blind eye to history (Oracle, are you listening???) and insist we deal with the present "realities"...That would be fine if we all agreed on what those realities were...But we don't...So we all need to Get Real....

The GCs have to take a good and hard look at why Turkey felt compelled to invade in 1974...And why they decided to stay...The TCs have to take a good look at the cost of having Turkey as their mentor and guarantor...
And accept the fact that it is not in their own interest to assimilate with Turkey. It will be the end of a unique community,probably the only one in history to be willing participants in their own cultural and identity genocide... We will dig deep and find the necessary empathy and compassion ,and the sense of putting the future of Cyprus and Cypriots first. If I can do it,miltiades can do it,Kikapu can do it,Bananiot can do it,repulsewarrior can do it,Deniz can do it...so can you all...So put all your suspicions,mistrust,prejudice,bitterness and hatred aside...Take a good look in the mirror and repeat after me..."We were naive fools to have let the British,the Americans,The Turks and the Greeks convince us the only natives of Cyprus were the Donkeys!...We have grown up now.... We believe we are one people, one nation separated by two man-made, artificial factors...We are prepared to put the interest of our homeland,our motherland Cyprus first...The foreigners can all go to hell...We have suffered enough through serving their interests...We are taking our own fate in our own hands...So help us God/Allah/Buddha/Nature/Great Emptiness/(insert your own belief here)...."

Bir, I respect you but you're still living a dream. Can you honestly tell me that the vast majority of GC posters on this site show maturity, are prepared to treat us with respect etc, etc. ? The answer of course is no. Just look at all the offensive tripe thrown my way about the experience of my family. Where are the rational GC voices ? Where are the GC's prepared to compromise about the future of the island ? I've only come across one and that's Andros, and what's happened to him ?!!

I tell you Bir, I would gladly accept the TRNC becoming a part of Turkey, failing a negotiated settlement or recognition, rather than living with neanderthals prepared to stab me and my community in the back at the first opportunity. It's sad but reality.

Muzzy,we have to have our dreams,or we will all go mad...
I might be in denial myself,but i just can't believe we have not advanced enough after all this pain and suffering to the point where we can acknowledge each others faults,and contributions to the Problem,forgive and move on...But with GR and Oracle and Epsilon plying their hate trade,i don't blame you for thinking the way you do...please try to remember how much it hurts when people dismiss your own personal pain in the future... Thanks,mate...

But Bir, I admire your idealism but of course it's not realistic is it ? I have, personally moved on but it's clear to me, from this site, as to which community hasn't. A 'true' RoC will never exist again. We tried, we failed. This is reality.

This is our island and we are not going to move on to anywhere. You made ehtnic cleansing against us but we will be back to our own homeland and we will not gift it to you! If you don't want to live with us then go back from where you came from so we can have peace on our island?

[BirKibrisli]

It is no use turning a blind eye to history (Oracle, are you listening???) and insist we deal with the present "realities"...That would be fine if we all agreed on what those realities were...But we don't...So we all need to Get Real....

I've never been accused of turning a blind eye to history before. I am usually told to forget what the Turks have done and move on.

So here was I, uncharacteristically confronting today's realities and you present yet another stumbling block.

As I suspected Bir ... whatever we propose, you contradict even if it means you contradict yourself in the process ....

You correctly though identify a difference in agreement on reality.

Why don't we look as some hard evidence to help identify those present day realities producing consternation, and see where we differ and agree.

I think a dedicated thread may give us a fresh start ...

Would someone take over doing one as I just meet with criticism from all sides whenever I embark on one.

Great idea,Oracle...Why don't you start a new thread on the "reality" which gives you most consternation...Try to make it neutral at least to start with...By that I mean try to avoid using words like "TC criminals" 'barbarian Turks" "Greedy thieves" etc...good luck...

... A scientist must never interfere with the outcome of the experiments by discarding any results which do not meet requirements, no matter how unwelcome they might be.

...and a good Scientist does not suggest to examine "effects" without looking at their "causes".....

[miltiades]

Muzzy70 wrote:
""""But Bir, I admire your idealism but of course it's not realistic is it ? I have, personally moved on but it's clear to me, from this site, as to which community hasn't. A 'true' RoC will never exist again. We tried, we failed. This is reality."""

Who tried did you say "we" meaning you ?? A Turkish national tried ?? We are talking about Cyprus Plonker NOT Turkey , so when you say "we" tried you are wrong!!!

[CopperLine]

Case not closed because in any case, Get Real still doesn't know the meanings of the term acquittal. The verb to acquit (except in a reflexive form) is an action or judgement undertaken by one agent in relation to another agent. One cannot acquit onself. Get Real's title and his continued use of the term acquittal is nonsensical. I can acquit you; you can acquit me : But I cannot acquit myself nor can you acquit yourself. (Ask yourself this Get Real : what sense would it make to charge yourself with something which you had the power to refuse).

To help you Get Real, at least with a lexical definition, here's the OED entry :

1. Payment, repayment, requital, or retribution; an amends, set-off, or counter-consideration. Obs.
c1430 LYDG. Minor Poems (1840) 89 To shewe how moche that konnyng may availe; And wey ageynwardes the froward acquitayle. 1440 J. SHIRLEY Dethe of James I (1818) 22 Thay were all takyn, and byhedid at Edynburghe. The Qwene did herselfe grete worship for here trew acquitalle [printed acquitable]. 1547 HEYWOOD Wit & Folly (1846) 5 The sotts pleaseure in this last acquyghtall Counterwayleth his payne. 1749 H. WALPOLE Lett. to H. Mann 200 (1834) II. 274, I have been long in arrears to you, but I trust you will take this huge letter as an acquittal.

2. Release or discharge from debt or obligation; = ACQUITTANCE 2. Obs. exc. in Law.
1463 J. BARET in Bury Wills (1850) 42 My executours..shall make a clere declaracion and a trewe accountys yeerly..for here trewe acquytaylle. 1641 Termes de la Ley 9 To acquit and discharge him of all rents, services, and such like: This discharge is called acquitall. 1809 TOMLINS Law Dict., Acquittal..signifies in one sense to be free from entries and molestations of a superior lord for services issuing out of lands. 1815 SCOTT Ld. of Isles IV. xxvii, The ring and spousal contract both, And fair acquittal of his oath.

{dag}3. A release, or deliverance, from liability or risk. Cf. ACQUITTANCE 4. Obs. rare.
1618 BOLTON Florus IV. ii. 292 Nor was the forbearance of him [Cæsar] an acquitall any longer; for Brutus, and Cassius..conspired to assassinate him.

4. A setting free, or deliverance from the charge of an offence, by verdict, sentence, or other legal process.
a1535 MORE Wks. 238 (R.) The chaunceler..neuer durst abyde the tryal of xii men for his acquitayle: but was fain by frendship to geat a pardon. 1629 COKE Instit. 100a, Hereof cometh acquitall, and quietus est, (that is) that hee is discharged. 1772 Junius Lett. Pref. 15 The jury should bring in a verdict of acquittal. 1840 MACAULAY Clive 88 The sentence ought to be one, not merely of acquittal, but of approbation.

5. Discharge (of duty); performance.
1656 MILTON Lett. State (1851) 344 His own deserts in the diligent acquittal of his trust. 1835 I. TAYLOR Spirit. Despotism §4. 154 For the acquittal of none of these perplexing duties does a church receive one word of guidance.

I have ALREADY responded to your gripe regarding "my mangling" of the word...

Btw, your quotes... "Release or discharge from debt or obligation", "A release, or deliverance, from liability or risk", "A setting free, or deliverance from the charge of an offence, by verdict, sentence, or other legal process." ...are all BEATIFULL explanations of "acquittal" so thank you! Enjoy yourself...

Those who live by the words, Get Real, shall die by the words (so said
the dyslexic.

After having berated Halil for his English language competence you use a title for a thread which not only mangles the English language but insodoing confuses the issue .....

The phrase 'The Turkish Cypriot acquittal of responsibility ...' does not describe what you have actually written in the following paragraphs. If you had written "Turkish Cypriot abrogation of responsibility ...' or if you'd written 'Turkish Cypriots refuse responsbility for XYZ' then you would have been on the right lines. But you didn't, instead you wrote 'acquittal of responsibility' - and since only other people can acquit your headline is both literally non-sensical and certainly not English. The use of the definite article at the beginning makes the Turkish Cypriots the unequivocal active subjects of the sentence. It is them doing the acquitting. But to be 'acquitted of responsibility' requires one actor to do the 'acquitting' of the actions or responsibility of another.

So, again, Get Real you are plain wrong.

That’s based on your assumption that the acquittal only comes from the Turkish Cypriots themselves in which case the title should be…

“The Turkish Cypriot self acquittal of responsibility”

…but unfortunately, there are even elements of the Greek Cypriot community and from other countries that seem to have a sanitized view, at my personal disgust, of the criminal acts of Turkish Cypriots in the “TRNC”, hence the more appropriate title…

“The Turkish Cypriot acquittal of responsibility”

...which represents an undetermined origin.

[Get Real, take a proper look at the OED usages. Of course they're beautiful definitions of acquittal - they are the OED definitions of 'acquittal', that's why I posted them. If you read them properly you would see why the word could not be used in the manner that you used it. That's the point].

So what you didn't say, but could have said, is simply 'Turkish Cypriots deny responsibility for Get Real's charge sheet'. At least this is clear. Now, onto the charge sheet.