Cyprus-Forum.com

[DT.]

...My position is really very frustrating,and I am afraid I am taking it out on GR and Oracle...But they are asking for it....

Try wanting to see an end to Human Rights Violations in your own country, your compatriots to be able to return to their ancestral homes, your government having rightful control over your whole country, assurances that your thousands of years old history and Hellenic inheritance is not being eroded and replaced by Turkish idiosyncrasies, and removal of an invading army, and some safeguard that none of the history of bombings and invasions by Turkey will ever be repeated again ...

And don't tell me it is your country too, because the TCs do not want it as their country ... just another Turkish trophy I am afraid. another piece for Turkish Expansionism.

Your frustration comes from your people having half the island but being judged as criminals ... and you just want them to be accepted as just being victims of misfortune, and for some reason it is falling on deaf ears.

The ears aren't Deaf Bir ... it's just that people aren't stupid to believe such stuff as you recite...

We know the enemy too well and the world recognises the manner in which Turkey works.

Please read my answer to Piratis above,Oracle...
Nothing will happen as long as you refuse to see why and how we find ourselves in this situation...Denial of history might give you some sense of satisfaction and comfort but will do nothing for a solutiion...keep on accusing one side and turn a blind eye to all relevant incidents past and present,keep on with your blanket demonisation of one side,and they will just show you the finger,the middle one...It was disgraceful and heartless how you dismissed Muzzy's personal pain and suffering in another post (another thread?)...It made it crystal clear to me that you have nothing to offer towards a solution in Cyprus...I will not waste my breath in this thread any longer...

You are so full of contradictions because you say whatever suits you without sticking to what is right.

To Piratis above (as well as on many other occasions0 you said:

As long as we insist on apportioning blame,talking about who suffered most and longest,and as long as we fail to see the other side's pain and suffering,we will get nowhere...I am talking to both sides here...

And to me you complain that I am dismissive of the past when, all along I am trying to push forward the current situation as being unacceptable and wrong, and it is the current situation which has to be rectified ...

You don't like that argument.
That is when you defuse such reasoned requests with harking back to the past.

You are not happy with anything Bir just so long as you say something, whatever it may be, to deny whatever strong arguments we have for insisting it is the present situation we have to solve!

Because your real aim is to gain even more for your people .... you show no willingness to consider a JUST solution .....

You constant contradictions are making you a lost cause for debate .....

WHat exacly CAN he say as a TC that we would find acceptable Oracle?

[Oracle]

...My position is really very frustrating,and I am afraid I am taking it out on GR and Oracle...But they are asking for it....

Try wanting to see an end to Human Rights Violations in your own country, your compatriots to be able to return to their ancestral homes, your government having rightful control over your whole country, assurances that your thousands of years old history and Hellenic inheritance is not being eroded and replaced by Turkish idiosyncrasies, and removal of an invading army, and some safeguard that none of the history of bombings and invasions by Turkey will ever be repeated again ...

And don't tell me it is your country too, because the TCs do not want it as their country ... just another Turkish trophy I am afraid. another piece for Turkish Expansionism.

Your frustration comes from your people having half the island but being judged as criminals ... and you just want them to be accepted as just being victims of misfortune, and for some reason it is falling on deaf ears.

The ears aren't Deaf Bir ... it's just that people aren't stupid to believe such stuff as you recite...

We know the enemy too well and the world recognises the manner in which Turkey works.

Please read my answer to Piratis above,Oracle...
Nothing will happen as long as you refuse to see why and how we find ourselves in this situation...Denial of history might give you some sense of satisfaction and comfort but will do nothing for a solutiion...keep on accusing one side and turn a blind eye to all relevant incidents past and present,keep on with your blanket demonisation of one side,and they will just show you the finger,the middle one...It was disgraceful and heartless how you dismissed Muzzy's personal pain and suffering in another post (another thread?)...It made it crystal clear to me that you have nothing to offer towards a solution in Cyprus...I will not waste my breath in this thread any longer...

You are so full of contradictions because you say whatever suits you without sticking to what is right.

To Piratis above (as well as on many other occasions0 you said:

As long as we insist on apportioning blame,talking about who suffered most and longest,and as long as we fail to see the other side's pain and suffering,we will get nowhere...I am talking to both sides here...

And to me you complain that I am dismissive of the past when, all along I am trying to push forward the current situation as being unacceptable and wrong, and it is the current situation which has to be rectified ...

You don't like that argument.
That is when you defuse such reasoned requests with harking back to the past.

You are not happy with anything Bir just so long as you say something, whatever it may be, to deny whatever strong arguments we have for insisting it is the present situation we have to solve!

Because your real aim is to gain even more for your people .... you show no willingness to consider a JUST solution .....

You constant contradictions are making you a lost cause for debate .....

WHat exacly CAN he say as a TC that we would find acceptable Oracle?

Exactly .. it is not just about TC or GC any more ...

It is about what is right for all individuals and the long-term good of Cyprus. It is about what is achievable and justifiable, under present guidelines and demands for civilisation and Democracy.

Cyprus is about more than just small groups wanting this or that for themselves. (Leads to constant in-fighting.)

Applying the Law as one must when constant squabbles prevent a solution emerging is the way forward.

The solution becomes immediately clear and Piratis has presented the arguments on many occasions.

The foreign occupying army must withdraw.
Turkey to remove its colonising settlers.
The rightful government must regain control of the whole island.
People should be able to return to their rightful homes.
Everyone treated as a citizen who was such prior to 1974 and has rightfully acquired such status since.

All these are plain and simple and can be determined by Law which supersedes the unfair demands of one party over another.

But applying the Law does not suit this TC man, with his argument being that TCs are not ready.

What kind of people are not ready to abide by Laws ...

Just because a murderer is not "ready" to abide by a Law we don't say "Oh, carry on as normal then, and present yourself for justice when you are ready!" Yet that is Bir's argument ... as well as for the GCs to help TCs with their therapy on top!

We are their slaves forever ... to nurture them and help them only!

[growuptcs]

DT
WHat exacly CAN he say as a TC that we would find acceptable ?

All he would have to say is that hes not changing his stance till mama Turkey tells him to. That would be good enough till this all unfolds.

[miltiades]

...My position is really very frustrating,and I am afraid I am taking it out on GR and Oracle...But they are asking for it....

Try wanting to see an end to Human Rights Violations in your own country, your compatriots to be able to return to their ancestral homes, your government having rightful control over your whole country, assurances that your thousands of years old history and Hellenic inheritance is not being eroded and replaced by Turkish idiosyncrasies, and removal of an invading army, and some safeguard that none of the history of bombings and invasions by Turkey will ever be repeated again ...

And don't tell me it is your country too, because the TCs do not want it as their country ... just another Turkish trophy I am afraid. another piece for Turkish Expansionism.

Your frustration comes from your people having half the island but being judged as criminals ... and you just want them to be accepted as just being victims of misfortune, and for some reason it is falling on deaf ears.

The ears aren't Deaf Bir ... it's just that people aren't stupid to believe such stuff as you recite...

We know the enemy too well and the world recognises the manner in which Turkey works.

Please read my answer to Piratis above,Oracle...
Nothing will happen as long as you refuse to see why and how we find ourselves in this situation...Denial of history might give you some sense of satisfaction and comfort but will do nothing for a solutiion...keep on accusing one side and turn a blind eye to all relevant incidents past and present,keep on with your blanket demonisation of one side,and they will just show you the finger,the middle one...It was disgraceful and heartless how you dismissed Muzzy's personal pain and suffering in another post (another thread?)...It made it crystal clear to me that you have nothing to offer towards a solution in Cyprus...I will not waste my breath in this thread any longer...

You are so full of contradictions because you say whatever suits you without sticking to what is right.

To Piratis above (as well as on many other occasions0 you said:

As long as we insist on apportioning blame,talking about who suffered most and longest,and as long as we fail to see the other side's pain and suffering,we will get nowhere...I am talking to both sides here...

And to me you complain that I am dismissive of the past when, all along I am trying to push forward the current situation as being unacceptable and wrong, and it is the current situation which has to be rectified ...

You don't like that argument.
That is when you defuse such reasoned requests with harking back to the past.

You are not happy with anything Bir just so long as you say something, whatever it may be, to deny whatever strong arguments we have for insisting it is the present situation we have to solve!

Because your real aim is to gain even more for your people .... you show no willingness to consider a JUST solution .....

You constant contradictions are making you a lost cause for debate .....

WHat exacly CAN he say as a TC that we would find acceptable Oracle?

Oracle is just being her usual self " hate anything Turkish "
Birkibrisly is the most respected Cypriot on this forum , a man who not only has had to endure insults from certain fanatical T/Cs but also from the irresponsible members of the GR clan . He has coped remarkably well without having to use insulting language , something I can not master ,
he is a true Cypriot and has my eternal respect.
Cypriots such as Bir and many more like him give us hope and courage to push ahead towards a just solution not a bloody war that would bring devastation of immeasurable dimensions to our island without gaining one inch of our occupied lands.
It is the extremists that the Turkish propaganda is pointing the finger at and defending the presence of the Turkish troops on our island as imperatively vital to the interests of the T/Cs.
Extremists amongst us are blinkered and can not see that the Turkish propaganda machine would come to a complete standstill if the finger was aimed at Bananiot , my self , Bir , repulse warrior and many more objectively positioned Cypriots who are committed to peaceful , meaningful negotiations in order to find a solution. It does not mean that we shall sit back and see Turkey annexe part of our island and altering even more the demographics of our island , we shall defend our independence with the political muscle at our disposal , we shall prevent recognition of the break- away regime or the assimilation of it by Turkey not by violence but by diplomatic means at our disposal.
Our EU membership embraces all of Cyprus , including the occupied part, Turkey knows that and contrary to belligerent and dismissive gestures as far as her own entry into the EU is concerned , she will comply because her "desired" destiny is Europe and EU membership.

[Viewpoint]

...My position is really very frustrating,and I am afraid I am taking it out on GR and Oracle...But they are asking for it....

Try wanting to see an end to Human Rights Violations in your own country, your compatriots to be able to return to their ancestral homes, your government having rightful control over your whole country, assurances that your thousands of years old history and Hellenic inheritance is not being eroded and replaced by Turkish idiosyncrasies, and removal of an invading army, and some safeguard that none of the history of bombings and invasions by Turkey will ever be repeated again ...

And don't tell me it is your country too, because the TCs do not want it as their country ... just another Turkish trophy I am afraid. another piece for Turkish Expansionism.

Your frustration comes from your people having half the island but being judged as criminals ... and you just want them to be accepted as just being victims of misfortune, and for some reason it is falling on deaf ears.

The ears aren't Deaf Bir ... it's just that people aren't stupid to believe such stuff as you recite...

We know the enemy too well and the world recognises the manner in which Turkey works.

Please read my answer to Piratis above,Oracle...
Nothing will happen as long as you refuse to see why and how we find ourselves in this situation...Denial of history might give you some sense of satisfaction and comfort but will do nothing for a solutiion...keep on accusing one side and turn a blind eye to all relevant incidents past and present,keep on with your blanket demonisation of one side,and they will just show you the finger,the middle one...It was disgraceful and heartless how you dismissed Muzzy's personal pain and suffering in another post (another thread?)...It made it crystal clear to me that you have nothing to offer towards a solution in Cyprus...I will not waste my breath in this thread any longer...

You are so full of contradictions because you say whatever suits you without sticking to what is right.

To Piratis above (as well as on many other occasions0 you said:

As long as we insist on apportioning blame,talking about who suffered most and longest,and as long as we fail to see the other side's pain and suffering,we will get nowhere...I am talking to both sides here...

And to me you complain that I am dismissive of the past when, all along I am trying to push forward the current situation as being unacceptable and wrong, and it is the current situation which has to be rectified ...

You don't like that argument.
That is when you defuse such reasoned requests with harking back to the past.

You are not happy with anything Bir just so long as you say something, whatever it may be, to deny whatever strong arguments we have for insisting it is the present situation we have to solve!

Because your real aim is to gain even more for your people .... you show no willingness to consider a JUST solution .....

You constant contradictions are making you a lost cause for debate .....

WHat exacly CAN he say as a TC that we would find acceptable Oracle?

Exactly .. it is not just about TC or GC any more ...

It is about what is right for all individuals and the long-term good of Cyprus. It is about what is achievable and justifiable, under present guidelines and demands for civilisation and Democracy.

Cyprus is about more than just small groups wanting this or that for themselves. (Leads to constant in-fighting.)

Applying the Law as one must when constant squabbles prevent a solution emerging is the way forward.

The solution becomes immediately clear and Piratis has presented the arguments on many occasions.

The foreign occupying army must withdraw.
Turkey to remove its colonising settlers.
The rightful government must regain control of the whole island.
People should be able to return to their rightful homes.
Everyone treated as a citizen who was such prior to 1974 and has rightfully acquired such status since.

All these are plain and simple and can be determined by Law which supersedes the unfair demands of one party over another.

But applying the Law does not suit this TC man, with his argument being that TCs are not ready.

What kind of people are not ready to abide by Laws ...

Just because a murderer is not "ready" to abide by a Law we don't say "Oh, carry on as normal then, and present yourself for justice when you are ready!" Yet that is Bir's argument ... as well as for the GCs to help TCs with their therapy on top!

We are their slaves forever ... to nurture them and help them only!

Please clarify who the rightful government is or would be??? this should be interesting.

[Oracle]

...My position is really very frustrating,and I am afraid I am taking it out on GR and Oracle...But they are asking for it....

Try wanting to see an end to Human Rights Violations in your own country, your compatriots to be able to return to their ancestral homes, your government having rightful control over your whole country, assurances that your thousands of years old history and Hellenic inheritance is not being eroded and replaced by Turkish idiosyncrasies, and removal of an invading army, and some safeguard that none of the history of bombings and invasions by Turkey will ever be repeated again ...

And don't tell me it is your country too, because the TCs do not want it as their country ... just another Turkish trophy I am afraid. another piece for Turkish Expansionism.

Your frustration comes from your people having half the island but being judged as criminals ... and you just want them to be accepted as just being victims of misfortune, and for some reason it is falling on deaf ears.

The ears aren't Deaf Bir ... it's just that people aren't stupid to believe such stuff as you recite...

We know the enemy too well and the world recognises the manner in which Turkey works.

Please read my answer to Piratis above,Oracle...
Nothing will happen as long as you refuse to see why and how we find ourselves in this situation...Denial of history might give you some sense of satisfaction and comfort but will do nothing for a solutiion...keep on accusing one side and turn a blind eye to all relevant incidents past and present,keep on with your blanket demonisation of one side,and they will just show you the finger,the middle one...It was disgraceful and heartless how you dismissed Muzzy's personal pain and suffering in another post (another thread?)...It made it crystal clear to me that you have nothing to offer towards a solution in Cyprus...I will not waste my breath in this thread any longer...

You are so full of contradictions because you say whatever suits you without sticking to what is right.

To Piratis above (as well as on many other occasions0 you said:

As long as we insist on apportioning blame,talking about who suffered most and longest,and as long as we fail to see the other side's pain and suffering,we will get nowhere...I am talking to both sides here...

And to me you complain that I am dismissive of the past when, all along I am trying to push forward the current situation as being unacceptable and wrong, and it is the current situation which has to be rectified ...

You don't like that argument.
That is when you defuse such reasoned requests with harking back to the past.

You are not happy with anything Bir just so long as you say something, whatever it may be, to deny whatever strong arguments we have for insisting it is the present situation we have to solve!

Because your real aim is to gain even more for your people .... you show no willingness to consider a JUST solution .....

You constant contradictions are making you a lost cause for debate .....

WHat exacly CAN he say as a TC that we would find acceptable Oracle?

Exactly .. it is not just about TC or GC any more ...

It is about what is right for all individuals and the long-term good of Cyprus. It is about what is achievable and justifiable, under present guidelines and demands for civilisation and Democracy.

Cyprus is about more than just small groups wanting this or that for themselves. (Leads to constant in-fighting.)

Applying the Law as one must when constant squabbles prevent a solution emerging is the way forward.

The solution becomes immediately clear and Piratis has presented the arguments on many occasions.

The foreign occupying army must withdraw.
Turkey to remove its colonising settlers.
The rightful government must regain control of the whole island.
People should be able to return to their rightful homes.
Everyone treated as a citizen who was such prior to 1974 and has rightfully acquired such status since.

All these are plain and simple and can be determined by Law which supersedes the unfair demands of one party over another.

But applying the Law does not suit this TC man, with his argument being that TCs are not ready.

What kind of people are not ready to abide by Laws ...

Just because a murderer is not "ready" to abide by a Law we don't say "Oh, carry on as normal then, and present yourself for justice when you are ready!" Yet that is Bir's argument ... as well as for the GCs to help TCs with their therapy on top!

We are their slaves forever ... to nurture them and help them only!

Please clarify who the rightful government is or would be??? this should be interesting.

The legitimately recognised RoC.

Please put your Turk-TC hat away, just as I have put my GC hat away .... and adorn an impartial wig!

[Viewpoint]

miltiades

Oracle is just being her usual self " hate anything Turkish "
Birkibrisly is the most respected Cypriot on this forum , a man who not only has had to endure insults from certain fanatical T/Cs but also from the irresponsible members of the GR clan . He has coped remarkably well without having to use insulting language , something I can not master ,
he is a true Cypriot and has my eternal respect.
Cypriots such as Bir and many more like him give us hope and courage to push ahead towards a just solution not a bloody war that would bring devastation of immeasurable dimensions to our island without gaining one inch of our occupied lands.
It is the extremists that the Turkish propaganda is pointing the finger at and defending the presence of the Turkish troops on our island as imperatively vital to the interests of the T/Cs.
Extremists amongst us are blinkered and can not see that the Turkish propaganda machine would come to a complete standstill if the finger was aimed at Bananiot , my self , Bir , repulse warrior and many more objectively positioned Cypriots who are committed to peaceful , meaningful negotiations in order to find a solution. It does not mean that we shall sit back and see Turkey annexe part of our island and altering even more the demographics of our island , we shall defend our independence with the political muscle at our disposal , we shall prevent recognition of the break- away regime or the assimilation of it by Turkey .

How do you like seeing your compatriot being ripped to shreds, that's the danger your goodwill would put us in. You are a very small minority and its the GR, Oracles, Piratis and other GC hardliners who know 100% will make our lives hell, why do you think we ask for safeguards, they are to guarantee that these fanatics will not takes us into practices of the past, if they have no intention of doing this then why are they so against safeguards that would be redundant due to lack of use.

Now miltiades do you understand why we are so apprehensive or not trusting of GC intentions, even a TC who trusts and forgives GCs who wants what they want the GC can rip off his head, imagine what they will do to us who do not see eye to eye for reasons that are now more evident.

[Viewpoint]

Oracle

The legitimately recognised RoC.

Chosen by whom? composed of whom? what does your constitution tell you?

[Oracle]

[Oracle is just being her usual self " hate anything Turkish ".

Listen little love-filled Buddha, do me a favour and don't tell me I can't hate those that refuse to abide by moral, ethical and legal laws ....

It's the feeling-that best describes what I feel ... I am not in denial!

When they leave my country alone, I will substitute "hate" for "indifference" ....

[Oracle]

Oracle

The legitimately recognised RoC.

Chosen by whom? composed of whom? what does your constitution tell you?

Predictable.

Shall we dance around the "Mulberry Bush" again ?

Someone else can partner you for a while, I need to take a dip in the sea ....