Cyprus-Forum.com

[Eliko]

miltiades, i have chosen to open this thread since, in agreement with what you have indicated in 'Will the USA vote in a black president ?' the matters we are about to discuss are not connected with it.

I am going to focus my attention on the first part of your response to my post (which prompted you to do so) and would initially thank you for doing so without resorting to insult.

I do not consider my perspective of world events to be 'wrong' but do accept that they are at variance with yours, unfortunately you seem to be ever insistent that yours are 'right' which leaves little room for debate.

My perceptions are also at variance to yours and I feel that in such areas, I am far more able to comment on them than you appear to be since I do not readily accept that which is available through the general media, I am sure I have vastly more 'Hands On' experience with matters outside of the spotlight, thus I have formed my opinions on that which I have seen and suffered rather than that which I have been informed of.
As to my 'anti-Western' views (which you seem to be convinced I have) they are not the result of some indoctrination I have received, they are (if they exist) similarly formed from that which I have seen and suffered.

As to my disparaging remarks about Western Political and Military chicanery, I make them knowingly and I am convinced of their validity.

The question of President Ahmadinejad's statement in which he supposedly called for the destruction of Israel IS (as I have already informed you) a falsehood, I DO believe it is Western propaganda and my perceptions identify the reasons for such clearly enough.

The latest allegations (that the President repeated his threats) may also be dismissed for a very sound reason, 'Misinterpretation' (the same tool as was used before and I will explain it for you).

The Ayatollah Khomeini stated (In Arabic) that "Like Communism and Fascism, Zionism will disappear as an ideology, from the pages of history".

NOT the words of President Ahmadinejad, NOT a threat to 'Wipe Israel off the Map' and certainly NOT a threat to peace and stability, rather a statement which, if Zionism was an ineffective ideology, might be of considerable value in ensuring peace in the hostile regions of the Middle East.

If you wish to accept a further distortion of facts due to misinterpretation, you are at liberty to do so.

The sixty years of plunder you refer to are quite obviously the opinion of those who have suffered as a result of Israel's aggression, there has been no peace since the foundation of the 'State of Israel' it would appear that there seems to be some problems in the region, I do not think it is as much of a mystery as some others do, perhaps the Israeli 'expansion' programme might have something to do with it.

As To Iran and it's nuclear development ambitions, I can see no reason for why they should not be allowed to pursue them, the Iranian Government has pledged that their interests in nuclear energy are primarily concerned with domestic uses, there are no real reasons (other than misrepresentation by the West) to doubt the sincerity of the pledges made.

It would appear rather strange to me that nations which are prepared to unlawfully attack, slaughter and persecute innocent civilians and children using 'Proven Lies' as an excuse to do so, are so reluctant to accept the word of a nation that bases it's entire cultural development on the tenets of truth and respectability.

So the Israeli's are now poised to strike (with low yield nuclear missiles) the first use of nuclear weapons since 1945 when the USA blasted Hiroshima and Nagasaki, you seem to be able to welcome the prospect miltiades, I cannot, but then you see there is a difference between us.*

I will comment on the next section of your response a little later on this same thread.

In closing, I would like to draw your attention to the comment that the United States as a 'Satanic Power' faces destruction.

If you consider the meaning of such a statement from the viewpoint of an Iranian, it is perfectly obvious that they DO.

Consider the decimation of the 'Red Indian' races, the plunder of their resources and land, a small insight into the damage inflicted on many innocents of the world which YOU seem so ready to accept.

*The difference being, I am a man of the people whereas YOU are a Government man.

In my humble opinion.

Best Wishes. Eliko.

[Bananiot]

I think President Ahmadinejad is playing a very dangerous game. His call to wipe off Israel from the map was condemned by many countries, including Cyprus. It was condemned by Russia and the Palestine negotiator, if I remember correctly.

When a theocratic government acquires nuclear capabilities we should all worry seriously. Nukes are a serious business and crazy priests and moullahs are the last people to have them.

[RRichie]

miltiades, i have chosen to open this thread since, in agreement with what you have indicated in 'Will the USA vote in a black president ?' the matters we are about to discuss are not connected with it.

I am going to focus my attention on the first part of your response to my post (which prompted you to do so) and would initially thank you for doing so without resorting to insult.

I do not consider my perspective of world events to be 'wrong' but do accept that they are at variance with yours, unfortunately you seem to be ever insistent that yours are 'right' which leaves little room for debate.

My perceptions are also at variance to yours and I feel that in such areas, I am far more able to comment on them than you appear to be since I do not readily accept that which is available through the general media, I am sure I have vastly more 'Hands On' experience with matters outside of the spotlight, thus I have formed my opinions on that which I have seen and suffered rather than that which I have been informed of.
As to my 'anti-Western' views (which you seem to be convinced I have) they are not the result of some indoctrination I have received, they are (if they exist) similarly formed from that which I have seen and suffered.

As to my disparaging remarks about Western Political and Military chicanery, I make them knowingly and I am convinced of their validity.

The question of President Ahmadinejad's statement in which he supposedly called for the destruction of Israel IS (as I have already informed you) a falsehood, I DO believe it is Western propaganda and my perceptions identify the reasons for such clearly enough.

The latest allegations (that the President repeated his threats) may also be dismissed for a very sound reason, 'Misinterpretation' (the same tool as was used before and I will explain it for you).

The Ayatollah Khomeini stated (In Arabic) that "Like Communism and Fascism, Zionism will disappear as an ideology, from the pages of history".

NOT the words of President Ahmadinejad, NOT a threat to 'Wipe Israel off the Map' and certainly NOT a threat to peace and stability, rather a statement which, if Zionism was an ineffective ideology, might be of considerable value in ensuring peace in the hostile regions of the Middle East.

If you wish to accept a further distortion of facts due to misinterpretation, you are at liberty to do so.

The sixty years of plunder you refer to are quite obviously the opinion of those who have suffered as a result of Israel's aggression, there has been no peace since the foundation of the 'State of Israel' it would appear that there seems to be some problems in the region, I do not think it is as much of a mystery as some others do, perhaps the Israeli 'expansion' programme might have something to do with it.

As To Iran and it's nuclear development ambitions, I can see no reason for why they should not be allowed to pursue them, the Iranian Government has pledged that their interests in nuclear energy are primarily concerned with domestic uses, there are no real reasons (other than misrepresentation by the West) to doubt the sincerity of the pledges made.

It would appear rather strange to me that nations which are prepared to unlawfully attack, slaughter and persecute innocent civilians and children using 'Proven Lies' as an excuse to do so, are so reluctant to accept the word of a nation that bases it's entire cultural development on the tenets of truth and respectability.

So the Israeli's are now poised to strike (with low yield nuclear missiles) the first use of nuclear weapons since 1945 when the USA blasted Hiroshima and Nagasaki, you seem to be able to welcome the prospect miltiades, I cannot, but then you see there is a difference between us.*

I will comment on the next section of your response a little later on this same thread.

In closing, I would like to draw your attention to the comment that the United States as a 'Satanic Power' faces destruction.

If you consider the meaning of such a statement from the viewpoint of an Iranian, it is perfectly obvious that they DO.

Consider the decimation of the 'Red Indian' races, the plunder of their resources and land, a small insight into the damage inflicted on many innocents of the world which YOU seem so ready to accept.

*The difference being, I am a man of the people whereas YOU are a Government man.

In my humble opinion.

Best Wishes. Eliko.

Well written and balanced as always Eliko.
All the best

[Eliko]

miltiades, I now propose to enlighten you on my views regarding Robert Mugabe (President of Zimbabwe) whom you have stated I seem to hold in high regard.

Let me straight away assure you that I DO NOT (as I have mentioned severally).

I believe my first mention of President Mugabe was when I remonstrated with you (and another) on account of the fact that you took it upon yourselves to grossly insult the man and the manner in which he governed his nation.

I believe the objections I raised were based on the fact that, as mere civilians of another nation, we should not take it upon ourselves to freely denigrate a President who (due to the fact that he IS the President) obviously must be venerated by the majority of his subjects (whether we agree with his policies or not).

Robert Mugabe kicked the white man out of his country, he has ruled for many years and regardless of our opinions, there are still millions of his subjects that uphold his stance against Western influences.

He has told the British Government to "Mind their own business" he has rightly informed Gordon Brown that he is "Merely a speck on the face of the earth" (which is what we ALL are) and has resisted much Western pressure which is applied in order to ensure his dismissal.

If the West is so concerned about 'Brutality' in Zimbabwe, why do they not send in the troops (as they are NOW trying to convince people was their intention in Iraq, in order to cover their lies).

I said I admired Robert Mugabe's 'Tenacity' and I make no apology for saying so, that does not mean that I agree with his policies, I do not know enough about what goes on 'Behind the Scenes' to make a fair assessment and nor does any one of us mere civilians of this nation.

Therefore, it can hardly be in our remit to offer insult about that which we have scant knowledge of.

The recent elections in Zimbabwe (of which we have been served a great deal of information about) are the concern of the Zimbabwe Government and it's people, how strange that there should be so much talk of corruption (by Western powers) when we have recently witnessed the 'Gerrymandered' gang of thugs installed in the guise of a 'Democracy' in Iraq.

The West would dearly love to install Tsvangarai in power in Zimbabwe, I wonder if that is because they would then have another 'Puppet Democracy' under their control.

IF these be facts, is there any wonder that Robert Mugabe is clinging to his position ?, maybe he is right, it is not in our remit to know.

As to 'Food Aid' and the difficulties experienced in delivering it, there are many reasons.

Those who actually distribute the food to the hungry are no doubt worthy of praise for their humanity and dedication, unfortunately, those who actually supply the aid, very often expect a return for their apparent generosity and it is in those areas that problems arise.

If a government can murderously assualt an innocent nation perpetrating the slaughter of millions of it's subjects, knowing that the slaughter is unlawful and based on a 'Pack of Lies', I personally find it difficult to accept that that SAME government can be genuinely concerned about the welfare of those who are suffering as a result of their own underhanded trickery which created the problems in the first place.

So you see, in a sense, it is not Robert Mugabe who deserves condemnation, it is the governments of those nations which persistently exert their influences on him that are truly responsible.

That one takes a bit more thinking about, view it with an open mind and you may be surprised, always seek the 'Hidden Agendas' I am sure they are there.

In my humble opinion.

[Eliko]

I think President Ahmadinejad is playing a very dangerous game. His call to wipe off Israel from the map was condemned by many countries, including Cyprus. It was condemned by Russia and the Palestine negotiator, if I remember correctly.

When a theocratic government acquires nuclear capabilities we should all worry seriously. Nukes are a serious business and crazy priests and moullahs are the last people to have them.

Bananiot, I think you should take note of the fact that President Ahmadinejad did NOT threaten to 'Wipe Israel off the map' as is well documented.

There is no conclusive evidence that Iran wishes to develop nuclear weapons.

It would appear that Western propaganda will soon be revealed for exactly what it is.

Best Wishes. Eliko.

[miltiades]

It would be utterly futile for me to engage in further debates with Eliko whose clearly in denial of International events as well as political positions of the Cyprus government. He has endorsed all that I said about him in my long post by coming up with the usual anti West rantings.
The ENTIRE world , including as it now appears are aghast at the behaviour of Robert Mugabe who is nothing more than a bloody tyrant that will hang on to power regardless .
He rejects the well publicized statement on the destruction of Israel by the Iranian President as merely Western propaganda , he insists even on this thread that President Ahmadinejad NEVER SAID IT !!!
Eliko I do like you but I have to say once again WHAT A WASTE OF AN EDUCATION.
Now read below what the Times reported , if you need a link www.timesonline.co.uk should be sufficient.

TimesJune 7, 2008

Israeli attack on nuclear bases ‘unavoidable’
Jerusalem An Israeli attack on Iranian nuclear sites looks “unavoidable” given the apparent failure of sanctions to deny Tehran technology with bombmaking potential, a deputy to Ehud Olmert, the Prime Minister, said yesterday.

“If Iran continues with its programme for developing nuclear weapons, we will attack it. The sanctions are ineffective,” the Transport Minister and former army chief, Shaul Mofaz, told the Yedioth Ahronoth newspaper. “Attacking Iran, in order to stop its nuclear plans, will be unavoidable.” It was the most explicit threat yet against Iran from a member of the Olmert Government. A spokesman for the Prime Minister did not address Mr Mofaz’s comments directly but said that “all options must remain on the table” and that more could be done to pressure Iran.

Mr Mofaz, who is designated as a deputy prime minister, is a former Defence Minister who remains privy to Israeli defence planning. He is a member of Mr Olmert’s security Cabinet and leads regular strategic coordination talks with the US State Department. (Reuters)
Silvio Berlusconi, the Italian Prime Minister, has refused to meet President Ahmadinejad, and no other leaders attending the summit have offered to hold bilateral talks with him. Italy said that it was obliged to alloow him to enter the country because the summit is being held by the UN.

Before arriving in Rome from Tehran, the Iranian leader repeated his assertion that the Jewish state would soon disappear from the map, adding for good measure that the "Satanic power" of the United States faced destruction. "You should know that the criminal and terrorist Zionist regime which has 60 years of plundering, aggression and crimes in its file has reached the end of its work and will soon disappear off the geographical scene," he said.

Speaking to reporters on his arrival, he said that Europe was bearing the economic and political costs of a "false regime" of Zionists. He claimed that people liked his comments "because people will save themselves from the imposition of the Zionists. European peoples have suffered the greatest damage from Zionists and today the costs of this false regime, be they political or economic costs, are on Europe's shoulders". He did not however repeat these remarks in his summit address

President Ahmadinejad had asked for an audience with Pope Benedict, but the Vatican said all such requests had been turned down. It denied this amounted to a papal snub.

ON ROBERT MUGABE , A MAN THAT ELIKO HAS GREAT RESPECT :

Richard Owen in Rome
Western leaders expressed outrage yesterday as Robert Mugabe flew into Rome in defiance of an EU travel ban to attend a United Nations world food summit while millions of people are starving under his brutal rule in Zimbabwe.

A spokesman for Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, said: “We think it is particularly unfortunate that he has decided to attend this meeting given what he has done in relation to contributing to difficulties on food supply in Zimbabwe.”

Douglas Alexander, the International Development Secretary, who will represent Britain at the summit, said: “We don’t see Robert Mugabe as gaining any legitimacy or credibility from attending this meeting when four million of his own people are now relying on food aid as a direct consequence of his profound misrule of the country.” A Downing Street spokesman said that Mr Alexander “will not have any engagement or interaction” with Mr Mugabe.

Stephen Smith, the Australian Foreign Minister, said it was obscene that “someone who has presided over the starvation of his people” was attending the three-day conference, organised by the Rome-based UN Food and Agriculture Organisation (FAO), which opens today.

[Get Real!]

Miltiades, due to your total lack of knowledge in pretty much everything you’ve ever opened your mouth to engage in, which is a tragic result of your failure to educate yourself over the years despite your deep yearning for respect, federal agents should burst into your house, confiscate your PC, grab you by the arms and legs, replace your nappy, shove and strap you in your rocking chair, shove a pipe in your mouth, and turn on Coronation Street for you to watch for the rest of your life.

[Eliko]

miltiades, how can you possibly expect anyone to take you seriously when you obviously only read the first line of my post regarding Robert Mugabe ?.

Had you read the second, you might have noticed that I stated quite clearly that I DO NOT hold President Mugabe in high regard (as I have mentioned severally).

Clearly you are unable to appreciate any opinion that conflicts with what you read in the newspapers and form your own opinions on.

I would have thought that the Iraq fiasco would have cured you of that habit, apparently not.

miltiades, your gullibility is quite astounding.

In my considered opinion.

[miltiades]

Miltiades, due to your total lack of knowledge in pretty much everything you’ve ever opened your mouth to engage in, which is a tragic result of your failure to educate yourself over the years despite your deep yearning for respect, federal agents should burst into your house, confiscate your PC, grab you by the arms and legs, replace your nappy, shove and strap you in your rocking chair, shove a pipe in your mouth, and turn on Coronation Street for you to watch for the rest of your life.

Ok , GR , would you back up your "theories" with some hard evidence , judging by your above comments which have become pretty much your signature , do tell me the areas where my education lets me down without adding your usual crappy one liners .Go on son !!

[Eliko]

miltiades, the third part of your post refers to 'Suicide Bombers' and you incorrectly state that I continue to justify their actions.

Had you taken the time to THINK about what I have posted about the issue of 'Suicide Bombings', you probably would have concluded (due to the numerous times I have been forced to repeat myself) that I abhor their actions probably to a greater degree than do you since I have actually seen the results of such actions on more than a few occasions.

What I HAVE said, is that I can understand the desperation that drives those who commit such atrocious acts, if you were to read and digest what I have written, perhaps you would also be able to understand it.

A 'Suicide Bomber' is dedicated to a course of action which 'HE' believes will discourage the aggressors and draw attention to the plight of his nation.

He does not fear death, he has a greater fear of life under oppression and is convinced that he will be propelled directly to paradise as a result of his selfless action (for their can be only one).

Obviously he also takes the lives of those he is amongst but, according to HIM, he also saves them from a life of oppression and at the same time may destroy some of his perceived enemies.

Whether or not you wish to ridicule or condemn his action, the fact is, the action takes place and there is nothing you or I can do about it.

We may recoil in horror, condemn them for being fanatics, brain-washed fools, savages or whatever other names we wish, the fact is that the 'Suicide Bomber' will not learn of your condemnation.

The important issue is quite different and it is in THIS area that you constantly fall short of sound reason.

WHY do they resort to such dreadful actions ?, prior to the unlawful and murderous attack on their nation, there were no such actions taking place, does that not suggest that the unlawful aggressor is the perpetrator of any such action ?.

In order to come to a conclusion on THAT point, it is necessary to understand that the people who commit themselves to self destruction are TRUE believers in their faith.

Whether or not we agree with THEM is a moot point, the fact is that THEY do not agree with US and would rather die than be forced to live under our rule.

I think that is plain enough, I do not agree with their actions but I do understand them.

Therefore, according to miltiades, I must be one of them, quite ridiculous since I am sitting here typing this post.

Or am I in paradise ?