Cyprus-Forum.com

[miltiades]

miltiades, the third part of your post refers to 'Suicide Bombers' and you incorrectly state that I continue to justify their actions.

Had you taken the time to THINK about what I have posted about the issue of 'Suicide Bombings', you probably would have concluded (due to the numerous times I have been forced to repeat myself) that I abhor their actions probably to a greater degree than do you since I have actually seen the results of such actions on more than a few occasions.

What I HAVE said, is that I can understand the desperation that drives those who commit such atrocious acts, if you were to read and digest what I have written, perhaps you would also be able to understand it.

A 'Suicide Bomber' is dedicated to a course of action which 'HE' believes will discourage the aggressors and draw attention to the plight of his nation.

He does not fear death, he has a greater fear of life under oppression and is convinced that he will be propelled directly to paradise as a result of his selfless action (for their can be only one).

Obviously he also takes the lives of those he is amongst but, according to HIM, he also saves them from a life of oppression and at the same time may destroy some of his perceived enemies.

Whether or not you wish to ridicule or condemn his action, the fact is, the action takes place and there is nothing you or I can do about it.

We may recoil in horror, condemn them for being fanatics, brain-washed fools, savages or whatever other names we wish, the fact is that the 'Suicide Bomber' will not learn of your condemnation.

The important issue is quite different and it is in THIS area that you constantly fall short of sound reason.

WHY do they resort to such dreadful actions ?, prior to the unlawful and murderous attack on their nation, there were no such actions taking place, does that not suggest that the unlawful aggressor is the perpetrator of any such action ?.

In order to come to a conclusion on THAT point, it is necessary to understand that the people who commit themselves to self destruction are TRUE believers in their faith.

Whether or not we agree with THEM is a moot point, the fact is that THEY do not agree with US and would rather die than be forced to live under our rule.

I think that is plain enough, I do not agree with their actions but I do understand them.

Therefore, according to miltiades, I must be one of them, quite ridiculous since I am sitting here typing this post.

Or am I in paradise ?

Here you go again !! WRONG WRONG WRONG !!
You are excusing their actions , cant you not see that ??
What bullshit is this : """"In order to come to a conclusion on THAT point, it is necessary to understand that the people who commit themselves to self destruction are TRUE believers in their faith. """
They are sick barbarians who massacre their own people for fucksake man. Even in Pakistan they are seen as such !!

You go on to say:
"""""""WHY do they resort to such dreadful actions ?, prior to the unlawful and murderous attack on their nation, there were no such actions taking place, does that not suggest that the unlawful aggressor is the perpetrator of any such action ?.""""

There were not commiting suicide before to kill their own people because they had Sadam to do their killing !!
Eliko your are a waste !!

[Eliko]

miltiades, I will now direct my attention to the final section of your post.

As is quite usual in your case, you fail to grasp the significance of what was at stake in the poll between yourself and Get Real.

Members were invited to cast their votes on the issue of bringng about a solution to the ongoing problems of Cyprus.

YOU, advocated continuing a series of non productive talks which (in one form or another) have been dragging on for 'Donkey's Years'.

As the standing candidate for your ideas, one had to assess your suitability as a negotiator among/against the Turkish opposition you were likely to be dealing with.

You were ready to revive long dead political points and the outcome would surely have plodded along for another few 'Donkey's Years'.

Therefore your mandate seemed to suggest weakness.

Get Real however, presented HIS case differently, he suggested that ALL the past waffle should be committed to the pages of failed history, he would rely on the bold stratagy of military action 'SHOULD NEGOTIATIONS FAIL' that does not imply that he would declare 'WAR' merely that he would rely on the threat of it to gain support.

Therefore HIS mandate seemed to suggest strength.

The choice was extremely easy for me, I ADMIRE strength, I am sceptical of weakness (particularly in politicians since they are putty in the hands of the strong).

Do not reproach yourself miltiades, do not take on so, these are merely games we play here, the outcome of the poll is of little consequence.

Get Real won BUT, there is only ONE miltiades. (thanks be to Jayzus)

[Eliko]

There were not commiting suicide before to kill their own people because they had Sadam to do their killing !!
Eliko your are a waste !!

miltiades, don't you dare try to introduce Saddam into the equation here, that is precisely what the murderous and cowardly American aggressors would love people to believe, that they were there to 'Liberate the people'.

I suppose YOU would be first in line if such a suggestion was put to the public, shame on you for even thinking along such lines.

[miltiades]

ELIKO ONCE AGAIN GIVING US THE WRONG ANSWER ""
""""""Get Real however, presented HIS case differently, he suggested that ALL the past waffle should be committed to the pages of failed history, he would rely on the bold strategy of military action 'SHOULD NEGOTIATIONS FAIL' that does not imply that he would declare 'WAR' merely that he would rely on the threat of it to gain support. """

Bullshit again , he never said 'SHOULD NEGOTIATIONS FAIL'

This is what he said and YOU supported " """""Any illusions of a complex inter-communal political arrangement being implemented in Cyprus is now history, Turkey’s EU make-believe journey is over, and it is now a race to get the upper hand in technology, political influence, and in the overall balance of power because unfortunately it’s become apparent that Cyprus can only be liberated in the same way it was enslaved… through bloodshed! """"

Eliko , where the hell did you get 'SHOULD NEGOTIATIONS FAIL' Are you reading your own views ?
And how come you found my views "YOU, advocated continuing a series of non productive talks which (in one form or another) have been dragging on for 'Donkey's Years'.

Where did I advocate these views , Bullshit again Eliko , this is what I said " My position is that a solution must be negotiated on the political arena
using the EU and the International community and most certainly not war.
Now let us see who wants a military war or the political war we are currently involved in. """

What is disturbing on my above comments , where do you see weakness ?? Oh I forgot your natural tendencies to interpret events WRONGLY !
WRONG AGAIN ELIKO !!

[Eliko]

ELIKO ONCE AGAIN GIVING US THE WRONG ANSWER ""
""""""Get Real however, presented HIS case differently, he suggested that ALL the past waffle should be committed to the pages of failed history, he would rely on the bold strategy of military action 'SHOULD NEGOTIATIONS FAIL' that does not imply that he would declare 'WAR' merely that he would rely on the threat of it to gain support. """

Bullshit again , he never said 'SHOULD NEGOTIATIONS FAIL'

This is what he said and YOU supported " """""Any illusions of a complex inter-communal political arrangement being implemented in Cyprus is now history, Turkey’s EU make-believe journey is over, and it is now a race to get the upper hand in technology, political influence, and in the overall balance of power because unfortunately it’s become apparent that Cyprus can only be liberated in the same way it was enslaved… through bloodshed! """"

Eliko , where the hell did you get 'SHOULD NEGOTIATIONS FAIL' Are you reading your own views ?
And how come you found my views "YOU, advocated continuing a series of non productive talks which (in one form or another) have been dragging on for 'Donkey's Years'.

Where did I advocate these views , Bullshit again Eliko , this is what I said " My position is that a solution must be negotiated on the political arena
using the EU and the International community and most certainly not war.
Now let us see who wants a military war or the political war we are currently involved in. """

What is disturbing on my above comments , where do you see weakness ?? Oh I forgot your natural tendencies to interpret events WRONGLY !
WRONG AGAIN ELIKO !!

As was Clearly explained to you earlier miltiades, (in another thread) the reason for my vote in favour of Get Real was:-

That whereas your position indicated weakness, Get Real's indicated strength and I interpreted his 'MEANING' to be:-

That 'SHOULD NEGOTIATIONS FAIL' he would rely on the military options available to hm.

They were NOT his exact words, they represent what I considered his intentions to be.

In YOUR case, a failure of negotiations would represent another prolonged series of useless and non-productive discussions.

YOU are the one that is unable to grasp the significance of anything that is not in concert with your own rigid views, understandable for a man of your age but still quite sad.

Don't worry about it miltiades, It is only a 'GAME'.

[miltiades]

ELIKO ONCE AGAIN GIVING US THE WRONG ANSWER ""
""""""Get Real however, presented HIS case differently, he suggested that ALL the past waffle should be committed to the pages of failed history, he would rely on the bold strategy of military action 'SHOULD NEGOTIATIONS FAIL' that does not imply that he would declare 'WAR' merely that he would rely on the threat of it to gain support. """

Bullshit again , he never said 'SHOULD NEGOTIATIONS FAIL'

This is what he said and YOU supported " """""Any illusions of a complex inter-communal political arrangement being implemented in Cyprus is now history, Turkey’s EU make-believe journey is over, and it is now a race to get the upper hand in technology, political influence, and in the overall balance of power because unfortunately it’s become apparent that Cyprus can only be liberated in the same way it was enslaved… through bloodshed! """"

Eliko , where the hell did you get 'SHOULD NEGOTIATIONS FAIL' Are you reading your own views ?
And how come you found my views "YOU, advocated continuing a series of non productive talks which (in one form or another) have been dragging on for 'Donkey's Years'.

Where did I advocate these views , Bullshit again Eliko , this is what I said " My position is that a solution must be negotiated on the political arena
using the EU and the International community and most certainly not war.
Now let us see who wants a military war or the political war we are currently involved in. """

What is disturbing on my above comments , where do you see weakness ?? Oh I forgot your natural tendencies to interpret events WRONGLY !
WRONG AGAIN ELIKO !!

As was Clearly explained to you earlier miltiades, (in another thread) the reason for my vote in favour of Get Real was:-

That whereas your position indicated weakness, Get Real's indicated strength and I interpreted his 'MEANING' to be:-

That 'SHOULD NEGOTIATIONS FAIL' he would rely on the military options available to hm.

They were NOT his exact words, they represent what I considered his intentions to be.

In YOUR case, a failure of negotiations would represent another prolonged series of useless and non-productive discussions.

YOU are the one that is unable to grasp the significance of anything that is not in concert with your own rigid views, understandable for a man of your age but still quite sad.

Don't worry about it miltiades, It is only a 'GAME'.

More nonsense from Eliko , unable to distinguish between right and wrong
unable to accept a statement from its face value , alters a few words here and there and satisfies himself . LOOK AT THIS :
"""That whereas your position indicated weakness, Get Real's indicated strength and I interpreted his 'MEANING' to be:-

That 'SHOULD NEGOTIATIONS FAIL' he would rely on the military options available to hm.""

My position is exactly that of the ROC , continue negotiations for a meaningful solution , where is the weakness in this !!!! This position is also that of the UN and the EU !! Yet Eliko sees weakness . The mind boggles , I think your best suited in exchanging one liner innuendos with Oracle that way both of you are out of harms way !!
This way you will NOT be taken seriously anymore than your avatar , indicative of the trifling views of the owner !!

[Paphitis]

G'day guys,

Why don't you guys just settle this once and for all? You can open a new thread + poll, and both of you can express your views, and then forum members can vote for either one of you that they believe is more coherent, and balanced.

In the mean time I will run a bookkeeping service where members can bet on who will win. I will now provide the odds.

Miltiades 100/1
Eliko 1.05/1 (Clear favourite) - may need to shorten at a later date

I think this would be especially good as it would prevent Eliko from waisting anymore of his valuable time and superior intelligence with the forum fool.

[denizaksulu]

ELIKO ONCE AGAIN GIVING US THE WRONG ANSWER ""
""""""Get Real however, presented HIS case differently, he suggested that ALL the past waffle should be committed to the pages of failed history, he would rely on the bold strategy of military action 'SHOULD NEGOTIATIONS FAIL' that does not imply that he would declare 'WAR' merely that he would rely on the threat of it to gain support. """

Bullshit again , he never said 'SHOULD NEGOTIATIONS FAIL'

This is what he said and YOU supported " """""Any illusions of a complex inter-communal political arrangement being implemented in Cyprus is now history, Turkey’s EU make-believe journey is over, and it is now a race to get the upper hand in technology, political influence, and in the overall balance of power because unfortunately it’s become apparent that Cyprus can only be liberated in the same way it was enslaved… through bloodshed! """"

Eliko , where the hell did you get 'SHOULD NEGOTIATIONS FAIL' Are you reading your own views ?
And how come you found my views "YOU, advocated continuing a series of non productive talks which (in one form or another) have been dragging on for 'Donkey's Years'.

Where did I advocate these views , Bullshit again Eliko , this is what I said " My position is that a solution must be negotiated on the political arena
using the EU and the International community and most certainly not war.
Now let us see who wants a military war or the political war we are currently involved in. """

What is disturbing on my above comments , where do you see weakness ?? Oh I forgot your natural tendencies to interpret events WRONGLY !
WRONG AGAIN ELIKO !!

As was Clearly explained to you earlier miltiades, (in another thread) the reason for my vote in favour of Get Real was:-

That whereas your position indicated weakness, Get Real's indicated strength and I interpreted his 'MEANING' to be:-

That 'SHOULD NEGOTIATIONS FAIL' he would rely on the military options available to hm.

They were NOT his exact words, they represent what I considered his intentions to be.

In YOUR case, a failure of negotiations would represent another prolonged series of useless and non-productive discussions.

YOU are the one that is unable to grasp the significance of anything that is not in concert with your own rigid views, understandable for a man of your age but still quite sad.

Don't worry about it miltiades, It is only a 'GAME'.

Good Morning Eliko,
You quote Chief of Staff GR as saying, "That 'SHOULD NEGOTIATIONS FAIL' he would rely on the military options available to hm." I cannot for the life of me remember where he has said that in conjunction with his Military options. GR, may have used that phrase elsewhere, but in this 'mini debate' I have been unable to find the link. IMO, GR stated that evrything else HAS failed, and that there is no other option.

Could you please point me to the page, so I can clear my mind on this matter.

Thank you.

Any new poll should be in three parts, Suicide bombers, nuclear proliferation and the Ctprus problem are very different issues.

Than you

[miltiades]

G'day guys,

Why don't you guys just settle this once and for all? You can open a new thread + poll, and both of you can express your views, and then forum members can vote for either one of you that they believe is more coherent, and balanced.

In the mean time I will run a bookkeeping service where members can bet on who will win. I will now provide the odds.

Miltiades 100/1
Eliko 1.05/1 (Clear favourite) - may need to shorten at a later date

I think this would be especially good as it would prevent Eliko from waisting anymore of his valuable time and superior intelligence with the forum fool.

Thanks for your compliment , I shall not reciprocate however , but can you justify your assertions by perhaps indicating to all watchers as to the areas in question where my foolishness was displayed , was it perhaps my commitment to the continuation of negotiations in order to reach a viable solution and my opposition to the notion that you and others supported that there is no further point in having such negotiations and ONLY WAR will resolve our predicament.
Go on Plonker put up or shut up.

[Paphitis]

ELIKO ONCE AGAIN GIVING US THE WRONG ANSWER ""
""""""Get Real however, presented HIS case differently, he suggested that ALL the past waffle should be committed to the pages of failed history, he would rely on the bold strategy of military action 'SHOULD NEGOTIATIONS FAIL' that does not imply that he would declare 'WAR' merely that he would rely on the threat of it to gain support. """

Bullshit again , he never said 'SHOULD NEGOTIATIONS FAIL'

This is what he said and YOU supported " """""Any illusions of a complex inter-communal political arrangement being implemented in Cyprus is now history, Turkey’s EU make-believe journey is over, and it is now a race to get the upper hand in technology, political influence, and in the overall balance of power because unfortunately it’s become apparent that Cyprus can only be liberated in the same way it was enslaved… through bloodshed! """"

Eliko , where the hell did you get 'SHOULD NEGOTIATIONS FAIL' Are you reading your own views ?
And how come you found my views "YOU, advocated continuing a series of non productive talks which (in one form or another) have been dragging on for 'Donkey's Years'.

Where did I advocate these views , Bullshit again Eliko , this is what I said " My position is that a solution must be negotiated on the political arena
using the EU and the International community and most certainly not war.
Now let us see who wants a military war or the political war we are currently involved in. """

What is disturbing on my above comments , where do you see weakness ?? Oh I forgot your natural tendencies to interpret events WRONGLY !
WRONG AGAIN ELIKO !!

As was Clearly explained to you earlier miltiades, (in another thread) the reason for my vote in favour of Get Real was:-

That whereas your position indicated weakness, Get Real's indicated strength and I interpreted his 'MEANING' to be:-

That 'SHOULD NEGOTIATIONS FAIL' he would rely on the military options available to hm.

They were NOT his exact words, they represent what I considered his intentions to be.

In YOUR case, a failure of negotiations would represent another prolonged series of useless and non-productive discussions.

YOU are the one that is unable to grasp the significance of anything that is not in concert with your own rigid views, understandable for a man of your age but still quite sad.

Don't worry about it miltiades, It is only a 'GAME'.

Good Morning Eliko,
You quote Chief of Staff GR as saying, "That 'SHOULD NEGOTIATIONS FAIL' he would rely on the military options available to hm." I cannot for the life of me remember where he has said that in conjunction with his Military options. GR, may have used that phrase elsewhere, but in this 'mini debate' I have been unable to find the link. IMO, GR stated that evrything else HAS failed, and that there is no other option.

Could you please point me to the page, so I can clear my mind on this matter.

Thank you.

Any new poll should be in three parts, Suicide bombers, nuclear proliferation and the Ctprus problem are very different issues.

Than you

Unfortunately, Miltiades always endeavors to manipulate the context of other persons arguments. We have seen it with his rants against GR and his accusations of war mongering, which was clearly not the case. We also see it with his ongoing debate with Eliko as I do not recall any post where Eliko has provided any kind of support for suicide bombings, nuclear proliferation other than for domestic uses, or him publicly supporting Mugabe, Suddam, or Iran. Just because Eliko chooses to analyse world events in a more unbiased and balanced manner, Miltiades chooses to tarnish Eliko's reputation merely because Eliko's views do not comply with his own. He endeavors to obtain the upper hand by manipulating the context of all differing views to his own due to his ineptitude in understanding complex issues and prefers to classify all things as either black and white in order to simplify the subject matter and hence make it easier for his simplistic intellect.