Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

As we all know Turkey is the puppeteer, the one who takes all the important decisions about what the TC community should do. TCs, the puppets, have no real say.

Why this is the case, and why this has been the case since the 50s is simple:

When the overwhelming majority of Cypriots were fighting for their freedom, the UK and Turkey promised to the TC minority that if they helped them to oppress the revolution of the Cypriot people they would grand to the TCs disproportionately large gains on the loss of the rest of Cypriots, such as 30% goverment positions, or event partition. (classic "divide and rule" recipe that always works)

The same foreigners continue to have interests in Cyprus, continue to want to divide and rule our island, and therefore they continue to bribe TCs by promising to them gains on our loss. The TCs on the other hand gladly accept the gains offered to them, but they know that the only way to have those gains and maintain them is to be good puppets and do what they are told by those foreigners.

Say for example that we agree on some so called "solution" where the TCs are given 50% power, 30% of our land etc. Our "partner" will not be the TC community but Turkey itself. The TCs will know fully well that these unfair and disproportionate gains that they were given are due to the force used by Turkey, and therefore they will continue to be the puppets of Turkey so that Turkey will continue to apply the force required for those unfair gains to be maintained.

The TCs say: "But we do not trust you, that is why we need Turkey". Of course you can not trust us to give up our human and democratic rights, of course you need to use force in order to take away those rights from us and have unfair gains against us, and of course you need and you will always need Turkey to use this force in order to maintain those unfair gains. Therefore, under such conditions, you will never trust us and you will always be the puppets of Turkey.

This is why such kind of "solutions", not only are bad and harmful today, but they have absolutely no good prospects for the future either.

A real solution is the one that will truly unite Cyprus and its people, that will bring democracy and human rights, and that will give to the TC minority their fair share of land and power. This way Cypriots will not be separated into two conflicting camps but they will have common interests, TCs will gradually learn to trust the GCs because GCs can be trusted to accept what is fair, and the TCs will have their proportional share of power that will be truly theirs (not Turkey's) because they will not need the big guns of Turkey to force unfair things anymore and therefore they will not need to continue to return the "favor" to Turkey by being its puppets.

The solution to the Cyprus problem can not be very different from what I describe above.

Small Cyprus is chained and wounded. There might be several available options for committing suicide, but a solution that will truly cure Cyprus is not readily available, it is not easy, and it is not certain, but we have no other choice than to keep fighting for it.

[BirKibrisli]

As we all know Turkey is the puppeteer, the one who takes all the important decisions about what the TC community should do. TCs, the puppets, have no real say.

Why this is the case, and why this has been the case since the 50s is simple:

When the overwhelming majority of Cypriots were fighting for their freedom, the UK and Turkey promised to the TC minority that if they helped them to oppress the revolution of the Cypriot people they would grand to the TCs disproportionately large gains on the loss of the rest of Cypriots, such as 30% goverment positions, or event partition. (classic "divide and rule" recipe that always works)

The same foreigners continue to have interests in Cyprus, continue to want to divide and rule our island, and therefore they continue to bribe TCs by promising to them gains on our loss. The TCs on the other hand gladly accept the gains offered to them, but they know that the only way to have those gains and maintain them is to be good puppets and do what they are told by those foreigners.

Say for example that we agree on some so called "solution" where the TCs are given 50% power, 30% of our land etc. Our "partner" will not be the TC community but Turkey itself. The TCs will know fully well that these unfair and disproportionate gains that they were given are due to the force used by Turkey, and therefore they will continue to be the puppets of Turkey so that Turkey will continue to apply the force required for those unfair gains to be maintained.

The TCs say: "But we do not trust you, that is why we need Turkey". Of course you can not trust us to give up our human and democratic rights, of course you need to use force in order to take away those rights from us and have unfair gains against us, and of course you need and you will always need Turkey to use this force in order to maintain those unfair gains. Therefore, under such conditions, you will never trust us and you will always be the puppets of Turkey.

This is why such kind of "solutions", not only are bad and harmful today, but they have absolutely no good prospects for the future either.

A real solution is the one that will truly unite Cyprus and its people, that will bring democracy and human rights, and that will give to the TC minority their fair share of land and power. This way Cypriots will not be separated into two conflicting camps but they will have common interests, TCs will gradually learn to trust the GCs because GCs can be trusted to accept what is fair, and the TCs will have their proportional share of power that will be truly theirs (not Turkey's) because they will not need the big guns of Turkey to force unfair things anymore and therefore they will not need to continue to return the "favor" to Turkey by being its puppets.

The solution to the Cyprus problem can not be very different from what I describe above.

Small Cyprus is chained and wounded. There might be several available options for committing suicide, but a solution that will truly cure Cyprus is not readily available, it is not easy, and it is not certain, but we have no other choice than to keep fighting for it.

This is my wish too,Piratis....It makes perfect sense to me..Why should we entrench our differences and carry them over for eternity??? It would be asking for trouble....But it looks as if it is too long a jump for the TCs...
And for Turkey of course...So if we can't achieve this ideal solution,can you tell us what would be your second choice???? I am talking about solutions,not "waiting for the balance of power to change" because that is not a solution,it is a strategy...

[Oracle]

As we all know Turkey is the puppeteer, the one who takes all the important decisions about what the TC community should do. TCs, the puppets, have no real say.

Why this is the case, and why this has been the case since the 50s is simple:

When the overwhelming majority of Cypriots were fighting for their freedom, the UK and Turkey promised to the TC minority that if they helped them to oppress the revolution of the Cypriot people they would grand to the TCs disproportionately large gains on the loss of the rest of Cypriots, such as 30% goverment positions, or event partition. (classic "divide and rule" recipe that always works)

The same foreigners continue to have interests in Cyprus, continue to want to divide and rule our island, and therefore they continue to bribe TCs by promising to them gains on our loss. The TCs on the other hand gladly accept the gains offered to them, but they know that the only way to have those gains and maintain them is to be good puppets and do what they are told by those foreigners.

Say for example that we agree on some so called "solution" where the TCs are given 50% power, 30% of our land etc. Our "partner" will not be the TC community but Turkey itself. The TCs will know fully well that these unfair and disproportionate gains that they were given are due to the force used by Turkey, and therefore they will continue to be the puppets of Turkey so that Turkey will continue to apply the force required for those unfair gains to be maintained.

The TCs say: "But we do not trust you, that is why we need Turkey". Of course you can not trust us to give up our human and democratic rights, of course you need to use force in order to take away those rights from us and have unfair gains against us, and of course you need and you will always need Turkey to use this force in order to maintain those unfair gains. Therefore, under such conditions, you will never trust us and you will always be the puppets of Turkey.

This is why such kind of "solutions", not only are bad and harmful today, but they have absolutely no good prospects for the future either.

A real solution is the one that will truly unite Cyprus and its people, that will bring democracy and human rights, and that will give to the TC minority their fair share of land and power. This way Cypriots will not be separated into two conflicting camps but they will have common interests, TCs will gradually learn to trust the GCs because GCs can be trusted to accept what is fair, and the TCs will have their proportional share of power that will be truly theirs (not Turkey's) because they will not need the big guns of Turkey to force unfair things anymore and therefore they will not need to continue to return the "favor" to Turkey by being its puppets.

The solution to the Cyprus problem can not be very different from what I describe above.

Small Cyprus is chained and wounded. There might be several available options for committing suicide, but a solution that will truly cure Cyprus is not readily available, it is not easy, and it is not certain, but we have no other choice than to keep fighting for it.

This is my wish too,Piratis....It makes perfect sense to me..Why should we entrench our differences and carry them over for eternity??? It would be asking for trouble....But it looks as if it is too long a jump for the TCs...
And for Turkey of course...So if we can't achieve this ideal solution,can you tell us what would be your second choice???? I am talking about solutions,not "waiting for the balance of power to change" because that is not a solution,it is a strategy...

Please explain that sentence for me BirKibrisli.

Because if I said it I would be accused of racism.

If I said everyone else can see logic and reason and fairness ... but this is too much for TCs ... I would be accused of being a Nationalist GC.

I suspect you could only be playing a psychological game.

You will turn around and say .... this is precisely what Nationalist GCs think of TCs .... that they are too stupid, backward and too different to see things our way .... to see that forgetting our differences, is the only way to go forward ...

Please explain if you are proving a point .... otherwise you are not making logical sense ....

If TCs were truly as you portray them, we are surely lost ... and in my frustration this would make me say worse things about TCs (which I would hope they do not deserve, but you are doing a good job of making them sound as though they deserve derision) ... and next thing will be that Kifeas pops up wielding wrath ...

So if TCs are not like that.. you will say then we are not lost! So maybe they are ...

Explain please Bir.

[Piratis]

I am also talking about solutions Bir, and not mere agreements that will only make our problem worst.

As I said a real solution can not be far from what I described above. There really isn't any alternative to human rights and democracy. The details of the system can be negotiated, but the principles of a true solution can not.

Instead of waisting our time looking for something that does not exist and perpetuate our problem with new problematic agreements, we should simply concentrate our efforts in achieving a real solution.

If and when a solution is achieved is something that only time will show, but the earlier we start working for a solution the better.

[kentish]

piratis you are doing what is called pissing against the wind.there is mutual distrust from both sides.your stupid rhetoric fools one.as a tc can i trust a gc to do the right thing in cyprus,can i f##k, 75/25 says it all.
up yours and goodbye

[BirKibrisli]

As we all know Turkey is the puppeteer, the one who takes all the important decisions about what the TC community should do. TCs, the puppets, have no real say.

Why this is the case, and why this has been the case since the 50s is simple:

When the overwhelming majority of Cypriots were fighting for their freedom, the UK and Turkey promised to the TC minority that if they helped them to oppress the revolution of the Cypriot people they would grand to the TCs disproportionately large gains on the loss of the rest of Cypriots, such as 30% goverment positions, or event partition. (classic "divide and rule" recipe that always works)

The same foreigners continue to have interests in Cyprus, continue to want to divide and rule our island, and therefore they continue to bribe TCs by promising to them gains on our loss. The TCs on the other hand gladly accept the gains offered to them, but they know that the only way to have those gains and maintain them is to be good puppets and do what they are told by those foreigners.

Say for example that we agree on some so called "solution" where the TCs are given 50% power, 30% of our land etc. Our "partner" will not be the TC community but Turkey itself. The TCs will know fully well that these unfair and disproportionate gains that they were given are due to the force used by Turkey, and therefore they will continue to be the puppets of Turkey so that Turkey will continue to apply the force required for those unfair gains to be maintained.

The TCs say: "But we do not trust you, that is why we need Turkey". Of course you can not trust us to give up our human and democratic rights, of course you need to use force in order to take away those rights from us and have unfair gains against us, and of course you need and you will always need Turkey to use this force in order to maintain those unfair gains. Therefore, under such conditions, you will never trust us and you will always be the puppets of Turkey.

This is why such kind of "solutions", not only are bad and harmful today, but they have absolutely no good prospects for the future either.

A real solution is the one that will truly unite Cyprus and its people, that will bring democracy and human rights, and that will give to the TC minority their fair share of land and power. This way Cypriots will not be separated into two conflicting camps but they will have common interests, TCs will gradually learn to trust the GCs because GCs can be trusted to accept what is fair, and the TCs will have their proportional share of power that will be truly theirs (not Turkey's) because they will not need the big guns of Turkey to force unfair things anymore and therefore they will not need to continue to return the "favor" to Turkey by being its puppets.

The solution to the Cyprus problem can not be very different from what I describe above.

Small Cyprus is chained and wounded. There might be several available options for committing suicide, but a solution that will truly cure Cyprus is not readily available, it is not easy, and it is not certain, but we have no other choice than to keep fighting for it.

This is my wish too,Piratis....It makes perfect sense to me..Why should we entrench our differences and carry them over for eternity??? It would be asking for trouble....But it looks as if it is too long a jump for the TCs...
And for Turkey of course...So if we can't achieve this ideal solution,can you tell us what would be your second choice???? I am talking about solutions,not "waiting for the balance of power to change" because that is not a solution,it is a strategy...

Please explain that sentence for me BirKibrisli.

Because if I said it I would be accused of racism.

If I said everyone else can see logic and reason and fairness ... but this is too much for TCs ... I would be accused of being a Nationalist GC.

I suspect you could only be playing a psychological game.

You will turn around and say .... this is precisely what Nationalist GCs think of TCs .... that they are too stupid, backward and too different to see things our way .... to see that forgetting our differences, is the only way to go forward ...

Please explain if you are proving a point .... otherwise you are not making logical sense ....

If TCs were truly as you portray them, we are surely lost ... and in my frustration this would make me say worse things about TCs (which I would hope they do not deserve, but you are doing a good job of making them sound as though they deserve derision) ... and next thing will be that Kifeas pops up wielding wrath ...

So if TCs are not like that.. you will say then we are not lost! So maybe they are ...

Explain please Bir.

It is very simple,Oracle. Blind Freddie can see now that we cannot go from where we are to a unitary state based on one-vote one -value democracy...It is the reality I have come to accept...I wish it was different but it is not...So I am now wondering...Can we possibly agree on an interm step,a temporary solution which will keep the way open for true unification some time in the future...???Or do we refuse to budge from our ideal solution and wait for "the balance of power to change"...Try to answer the question without throwing insults about,please...

[Viewpoint]

piratis you are doing what is called pissing against the wind.there is mutual distrust from both sides.your stupid rhetoric fools one.as a tc can i trust a gc to do the right thing in cyprus,can i f##k, 75/25 says it all.
up yours and goodbye

Welcome to the forum Kentish, good post, hit the problem on the head.

[BirKibrisli]

I am also talking about solutions Bir, and not mere agreements that will only make our problem worst.

As I said a real solution can not be far from what I described above. There really isn't any alternative to human rights and democracy. The details of the system can be negotiated, but the principles of a true solution can not.

Instead of waisting our time looking for something that does not exist and perpetuate our problem with new problematic agreements, we should simply concentrate our efforts in achieving a real solution.

If and when a solution is achieved is something that only time will show, but the earlier we start working for a solution the better.

Fine,Piratis...The real solution according to you and me is a unitary state based on democratic principles and human rights...But you and I cannot really affect an agreement between the two communities...Those who can will have nothing less than a BBF based on political equality of the GCs and TCs...How are we going to get from here to our ideal "real" solution???

[BirKibrisli]

piratis you are doing what is called pissing against the wind.there is mutual distrust from both sides.your stupid rhetoric fools one.as a tc can i trust a gc to do the right thing in cyprus,can i f##k, 75/25 says it all.
up yours and goodbye

Welcome to the forum Kentish, good post, hit the problem on the head.

Please stop encouraging rude and inconsiderate posts,VP...kentish is out of order...if he has a problem with Piratis' post he can put up his arguments in a temperate language...How else are going to get to understand and respect each other's point of view????

[Oracle]

As we all know Turkey is the puppeteer, the one who takes all the important decisions about what the TC community should do. TCs, the puppets, have no real say.

Why this is the case, and why this has been the case since the 50s is simple:

When the overwhelming majority of Cypriots were fighting for their freedom, the UK and Turkey promised to the TC minority that if they helped them to oppress the revolution of the Cypriot people they would grand to the TCs disproportionately large gains on the loss of the rest of Cypriots, such as 30% goverment positions, or event partition. (classic "divide and rule" recipe that always works)

The same foreigners continue to have interests in Cyprus, continue to want to divide and rule our island, and therefore they continue to bribe TCs by promising to them gains on our loss. The TCs on the other hand gladly accept the gains offered to them, but they know that the only way to have those gains and maintain them is to be good puppets and do what they are told by those foreigners.

Say for example that we agree on some so called "solution" where the TCs are given 50% power, 30% of our land etc. Our "partner" will not be the TC community but Turkey itself. The TCs will know fully well that these unfair and disproportionate gains that they were given are due to the force used by Turkey, and therefore they will continue to be the puppets of Turkey so that Turkey will continue to apply the force required for those unfair gains to be maintained.

The TCs say: "But we do not trust you, that is why we need Turkey". Of course you can not trust us to give up our human and democratic rights, of course you need to use force in order to take away those rights from us and have unfair gains against us, and of course you need and you will always need Turkey to use this force in order to maintain those unfair gains. Therefore, under such conditions, you will never trust us and you will always be the puppets of Turkey.

This is why such kind of "solutions", not only are bad and harmful today, but they have absolutely no good prospects for the future either.

A real solution is the one that will truly unite Cyprus and its people, that will bring democracy and human rights, and that will give to the TC minority their fair share of land and power. This way Cypriots will not be separated into two conflicting camps but they will have common interests, TCs will gradually learn to trust the GCs because GCs can be trusted to accept what is fair, and the TCs will have their proportional share of power that will be truly theirs (not Turkey's) because they will not need the big guns of Turkey to force unfair things anymore and therefore they will not need to continue to return the "favor" to Turkey by being its puppets.

The solution to the Cyprus problem can not be very different from what I describe above.

Small Cyprus is chained and wounded. There might be several available options for committing suicide, but a solution that will truly cure Cyprus is not readily available, it is not easy, and it is not certain, but we have no other choice than to keep fighting for it.

This is my wish too,Piratis....It makes perfect sense to me..Why should we entrench our differences and carry them over for eternity??? It would be asking for trouble....But it looks as if it is too long a jump for the TCs...
And for Turkey of course...So if we can't achieve this ideal solution,can you tell us what would be your second choice???? I am talking about solutions,not "waiting for the balance of power to change" because that is not a solution,it is a strategy...

Please explain that sentence for me BirKibrisli.

Because if I said it I would be accused of racism.

If I said everyone else can see logic and reason and fairness ... but this is too much for TCs ... I would be accused of being a Nationalist GC.

I suspect you could only be playing a psychological game.

You will turn around and say .... this is precisely what Nationalist GCs think of TCs .... that they are too stupid, backward and too different to see things our way .... to see that forgetting our differences, is the only way to go forward ...

Please explain if you are proving a point .... otherwise you are not making logical sense ....

If TCs were truly as you portray them, we are surely lost ... and in my frustration this would make me say worse things about TCs (which I would hope they do not deserve, but you are doing a good job of making them sound as though they deserve derision) ... and next thing will be that Kifeas pops up wielding wrath ...

So if TCs are not like that.. you will say then we are not lost! So maybe they are ...

Explain please Bir.

It is very simple,Oracle. Blind Freddie can see now that we cannot go from where we are to a unitary state based on one-vote one -value democracy...It is the reality I have come to accept...I wish it was different but it is not...So I am now wondering...Can we possibly agree on an interm step,a temporary solution which will keep the way open for true unification some time in the future...???Or do we refuse to budge from our ideal solution and wait for "the balance of power to change"...Try to answer the question without throwing insults about,please...

Why are you offering me a health warning ... do you perhaps think three civil posts are my limit and then I turn abusive

OK ... not a game! In that case, I accept that you know better. That TCs are indeed unique in not being fully developed as free-thinking human beings and will self-destruct if faced with the harsh reality of only one vote per person ... So they want more.

Please tell me though Bir., why we GCs, who struggle &, strive with developing further as individuals (responsible beings) to motivate each other, should be lumbered with such a workload as to take in under our wings, backward (Literary Licence) people as the type of people you portray these beasts (LL) to be?

Why would we voluntarily take in a cuckoo which will be so demanding it will sap as dry whilst it is fed and nurtured at our expense ...

We do not need baggage. TCs join as equals; otherwise by your formula, I take it they are not worth harbouring, and we should look towards a solution without them.

Bir., ....you obviously have allowances up your sleeve, which you think we should make ... so spill the beans and end the frustration ....